WildRose94

Anna's Lovelace's gravity well says: Enemy models may not be Placed within 6 unless they are Placed by an effect generated by friendly models.

is this only referring to the Place from movement effect and abilities such as Leap and Flight or does it also effect models that are placed from summoning, unburying and replace.

for example: can Sandeep Summon a wind gamin within 6 of Anna Lovelace? can a Soulstone Miner Unbury within 6 of Anna Lovelace? can the Corphy duet be Replaced by 2 Corphy within 6 of Anna Lovelace?

the 3 examples all describe models being placed (with a lower case p) in the description of their mechanics, is this different from a Place (with an upper case P) mentioned in Gravity well.

Thanks for the help.

If you gain stunned as part of an opponent action does the resistance trigger still work?

for example Mie fang is attacking Zoraida and declares the blinded by iron trigger, Zoraida declares Regrets in time of stage d.V. Stunned gets applied when resolving (timing e) and regrets would resolve at timing f.

Initially I thought regret wouldn’t go off as stunned was applied before it was resolved, but looking at the stunned condition it says triggers can’t be declared which happened before the stunned was applied. 

Can some one please confirm how this is meant to work because I have gotten my self very confused. Thanks 

@Kyle you said in the beta updates that (Also worth noting that with the Stunned changes, this model (soul stone miner) is staying the same, so it can now Unbury and Interact). how? I see no changes on the card that allows this. stunned says  are still action and can only take 1 per turn but count towards the action limit. the soul stone miners card still says interact actions are  and the unbury action is still a , so how does it unbury and interact?

side question, has anyone found a use for Iggy? I've never felt that he's worth taking.

2 hours ago, Jordon said:

Meanwhile the enemy crew is doing what? 😁

Moving away from the landing spot

1 minute ago, Hollingydale said:

No, but I'd love Neil to be a construct as that's the only reason I wouldn't hire him at the moment. I don't see the need to increase his stat.

but he would loss the ability to increase it by removing scrap as you are changing the rail drive action which he shares with the rail workers, so either he will need a stat increase or the action needs to be renamed. agree with construct, as he, sparks and willie really suffer from friendly vent steam at the moment.

26 minutes ago, Hollingydale said:

In the games I've used the Rail Worker it has been underwhelming, and I have always wished I had a metal gamin instead. Agreed they are more of a beater than the gamin, but haven't been reliable when I have hired them. If the crew had more burning I'd definitely hire them for the stunned free action.

I'd love to see the Rail Worker raise to 6 stones, gain a wound and change Rail Driver to:

 

I think that would be enough to make me hire them.

 

I assume you would also increase Neil Hennry's rail driver to stat 7 then as well?

1 minute ago, mythicFOX said:

I'm with @Hollingydale on this.  The metal gamin work where they are,  it's the Survivor and Rail Worker who are sat in an irrelevant slot right now.

Are rail works in an irrelevant spot? Even though their at the same cost as the metal gamin they do very deferent roles. The gamin are a tanky set up the rails model where as the worker is more offensive model dealing out the damage. I'll agree that the survivors look a bit irrelevant.

4 hours ago, azgadil said:

Bonus Action:Place Pyre on Enemy. Enemy gains Injured +1 and Burning +1.

It's a create not a place so you can't put the marker in base contact with models or other markers 

Edit: also the initial placement of a marker does not count as moving the marker, therefore it will not be effected by the hazardous even if it was a place.

2 hours ago, azgadil said:

My question, if you do Up We Go and place it in a Pyre, it gets Hazardous. Does it then get another Hazardous from the trigger's push? I'm pretty sure they do as they're separate movement effects. 

I am inclined to answer no. Hazardous specifically says once per action/ability. 

I'm inclined to say yes as the trigger happens after the action is resolved 

1 minute ago, Winterfeld said:

And Tony....... Is in my opinion the worst master in Faction.   

Worse than Kaeris?!

39 minutes ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

Open beta playtsting.... where people cry to nerf everything that isn’t a straight forward dude with a sword and def 5... 

srsly get creative, use ur minds and u will find ways to deal with him. The point of a Lucius crew is controll, so of course the only real beatstick in the crew is more controlly than a augmented beatstick or a nephilim. Thanks the point. 

It’s a good ability which is nice and thematic and asks the opponent questions. Which is exactly Lucius playstyle. 

If ur an opponent that doesn’t really have answers to that kind of questions, maybe ur just not really trying or not creative or just not very good vs that kind of playstyle.... 

there is a lot of counterplay against the agent.

first of all, obeys need line of sight.

also, m3e has lots of indirect damage. Stampede, misery, blade dance, blasts, veangence, black blood, pulses, etc.

and there are plenty of good options to hit without cheating: 

rig the deck, focus, high stats, intuition, mass attacks, the old ways, obeying Lucius models to hit the agent, limiting his cheating via betrayal kind of auras (betrayal and arcane emissary aura) 

and it’s not like the agent Auto hits and murders everyone. He has to deal with minus flips aswell and he doesn’t copy any plus flips from other actions. 

Honestly this movent of „I don’t immediately find a solution, so my solution is to go to the forums and cry till it’s nerfed“ just ruins Malifaux. 

80% of the Games beaters are 3/4/5(6) stat 6 with basically a few minimum difference triggers already... stop making the Game more homogeneous, it’s already super boring compared to m2e when it comes to model choices. 

Competitive players can’t even post any really good combos in the forums because there would be 10 people instantly crying about how op that would be... 

that kind of behavior and the behavior that leads to it hurts any progress the beta should bring to the game. 

The goal is to balance m3e, not flatten it till it’s 7  models vs 7 differently looking but rulewise equal models.

If this is directed at the initial post then firstly the surgestions I made I felt were more lateral change as arguments could be made that making your opponent loss 2 cards (1 for discarding 1 for the cheat) to cheat is better than just no cheat as it gives an element of control over your opponent s hand similarly negative flips to all opossed duel with it can be argued as stronger as they can't cheat and have to take the lower value (if they don't focus). It was just to enable some counter play as I found it a really strong ability.

secoundly my main aim was to see if other people also Had an issue or if I was barking up the wrong tree. Like I said in the post, I had played 1 game against and hadn't answers to it so I was also asking for advise.

thirdly are you saying we should just leave everything as is and not raise concerns about abilities we think are too strong? In that case why bother with the beta just release it now. 

Im not saying this ability is broken to all hell, I was raising a concern, surgesting a solution to said concern and asking if others had the same concern. If the developers decide that the ability is fine as is then my concerns are unfounded, but I do think that I should raise any concerns I have while playtesting wether that be this model is to good or this model needs to be made better.

3 hours ago, Dereikt said:

In the context of the rest of the Wildfire crew, I'd agree that it feels like they need the Firestarter's current functionality as a scheme runner in addition to Carlos. This is a crew with only two minions, and not only are neither of them good scheme runners, they aren't even average scheme runners

completely agree, I find myself having to take either a Soulstone miner or more recently a wind gamin (now that the miner isn't as good at running schemes) to be a secondary scheme runner as neither the Fire starter or Carlos can do it all by themselves. 

6 hours ago, TheBjorn said:

I suggested in a BR yesterday that the firestarter get a bonus to place a pyre in base to base to help with the defensive uses of pyres.

defiantly think the fire starter should have an action to put out Pyre markers, especially since Kaeris has now lost Inferno. I think you could just give him on the pyre

I have a slightly side question on our versatile models, which ones are you taking (as Versatile, i.e. not including keyword) and with which masters? why did you take that model and was it worth it?

what if mantras were once per activation but still staked?

I played a game against it last night and man is this thing a pain in the but. Inhuman physiology made him almost imposable to kill or defend against.

one time I had a positive Df flip against him, flipped two 3 and he flipped a 13 and I couldn't mitigate the result at all  to put him on for damage and he ended up flipping a server for 5 damage. on the other hand I was attacking him with a and +2 states due to him being injured, won the duel initially 9 vs 7, and my opponent cheated in a 12 and I couldn't drop the red joker in my hand to force it through. its like my opponent was flipping jokers every time.

I world prefer it if the ability was

Inhuman Physiology: Enemy models suffer during opposed duels with this model.

this still gives the ability of not being able to cheat due to being on negative flips but allows counter play of using focused to get to a straight flip and being able to cheat.

or

Inhuman Physiology: Enemy models must discard a card to Cheat Fate during opposed duels with this model.

either of this changes would still keep him strong both in terms of offense and defence but allows some counter play from his opponent.

what have other peoples experience been with it? like I said only played 1 game against it but found it supper obnoxious.

1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

It was mostly nerfs to his durability. He didn't do the most damage but he wasn't really even worth trying to kill. There was no limit to the amount of damage that could be reduced via burning (still min 1) and his place effect had no limit to the amount of burning he could get (though it only reduced the target's burning by 3). It was trivial to have him at Burning +10 in the first turn.

He was fast and mobile, his Shockwave gave him some reach, and a 3/4/5 damage track was solid. His durability could get a little crazy but I think they over corrected on his damage reduction ability. 

Thing is, as he is now the other 2 have him beat when it comes to defensives and being tanky. They both have constant armour and the metal golem has easy access to shielded and the ice golem has a heal.

at the moment they are better than the fire golem in offensive and defensive.

if he's meant to be the more tanky tar pit  he needs ability to show that. A good start would be to give him at armour 1, making it so he doesn't get steam rolled if he losses burning. A heal wouldn't go  amiss either. but I still think his offence is lacking

i just can't see the trade off he's getting for having a worse version of armour 2, he's not significantly more mobile, he's not more Killy and he's not more tanky.

I know I need to get more games in with both of them but as I see it, at the moment, Elijah is better in almost every way, the only reason I see to take the fire golem is to give himself and the gamin burning +8 on the first turn, after that Elijah is the better choice. 

If people could piont at what I'm missing that makes him so great can you please tell me cause I can't  see it.

2 hours ago, WWHSD said:

That’s funny to hear because the Fire Golem was getting nerfed week after week diring the closedbeta and everyone was talking about how worthless the Metal Golem was until it got some love there at the end.

The Golem was still pretty solid the last time I played it but Elijah should give him a run for the money when it comes to who’s the strongest model in the keyword.

Closed beta might of been a different story, I've only seen it since the open beta. If it's the case that it was nerfed continueously they've taken it too far. 

Far comparison it has fake armour 2 that relies on burning which you have to reduce and can be cleared so it's defenses are worse than the ice and meta who have straight armour 2. It's damage track is also worse than the other two as it's paying what I like to call the burning tax. And it's trigger are also mediocre.

overal I just find it a bit lacking at the moment.

edit: last time I took him I was wishing the whole game I wish I had taken Elijah instead.

2 hours ago, Dereikt said:

Blaze of Glory feels like a poor ability for Kaeris, for much the same reasons that it's bad on Firebranded-

Firstly, no efficient way to put burning on themselves for the benefit. Kaeris's action to put a Pyre down, then another action to walk through it, is not efficient, and standing in a Pyre marker to keep the benefit ties them to a stationary role-particularly bad for Kaeris who, with a medium range and poor defences, is going to be heavily reliant on being able to use her mobility. 

the help her out both offensively and defensively, and sure your might ended up taking a point of burning damage here and there but the crew has good access to heals that it doesn't hugely mater. Kaeris's pyre marker action is a free action and its her only , so efficacy isn't really an issue with that. With the addition of run and gun I find it very unlikely she will be stationary as she will want to use that to get burning on her to get before attacking and the charging is a very efficient way to do that.

2 hours ago, Dereikt said:

Generally, it's always felt to me like Blaze of Glory is backwards-in a crew mostly focussed on setting their opponents on fire, it's burning from the target they should be using to boost their attacks.

I think they just want everything burning, only the fire starter and Iggy don't get a benefit from being on fire in the Theme.

2 hours ago, Dereikt said:

Secondly, and a lot more importantly, Kaeris has no immunity to Burning, and therefore should not be applying it to herself at all.

I think blaze of glory needs more testing on her before I make an opinion on this, if she is offing her self because of it then sure I think she will need it but I think blaze of glory will control the burning enough

2 hours ago, Dereikt said:

In 3e, the only Wildfire model universally agreed to be strong from the beginning is the Fire Golem, which is also one of the few models in the crew which is immune to Burning

I've been hearing a very different story with people saying its the weakest of the golems. if that's are strongest model in wildfire then wildfire has a lot more problems than I thought.

21 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Blaze of Glory encourages Kaeris to act as an immobile turret

I found her more immobile with out it as she didn't want to go near her pyre markers, now she has no restrictions.

2 hours ago, Dereikt said:

Taking immolate out removes her only genuinely powerful attack, and +1 damage from Smolder just doesn't make up for that loss. If it was +2 damage, maybe, but it doesn't really feel like good design that her main attack is dependant on burning to be worthwhile.

immolate required far to much set up to be worth it. its really easy to get low buring on models with the pyre markers so smoulder is pretty easy to get off. side note its not +1 damage, its 1 damage, this makes it better against armour, hard to kill and soul stone reduction but worse against shielded. agree that making it do 2 damage would be nice as her track is weak for a master

2 hours ago, Dereikt said:

She also needs at least one or two actions or triggers that fall outside damage dealing

I mean I see fan the flames primary role is to put injured on models, the 2 damage is just gravy.

2 hours ago, Dereikt said:

To score points you have to either place scheme markers or move models to specific positions. Currently, all Kaeris has in those areas are to move opponents small distances, at close range. She can't move friendly models, and can only place scheme markers through the basic interact action which just isn't efficient on a master

isn't this what a lot of masters have? unless your a focused scheme marker master like Colette most of them just have the basic interact action.

5 minutes ago, Da Git said:

I like it. It means that he would never suffer damage from burning and makes Fireproof unnecessary. 

That's only if there is an enemy model with in 6 if not he's still gonna take that burning damage

41 minutes ago, matt said:

nope, that is intended.

ah that's good, that whole tread got me worried for a bit.

28 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

The aura is more powerful in m3e rules.  You can put it up, charge in and immediately do damage and burning. 

this is no longer the case, Hazardous rules have changed in the 2.6.19 update. only Hazardous markers moved over models immediately apply Hazardous, auras no longer do.

there's a possibility that the burn it all trigger was unintended as its not on the change log and some unintended changes slipped trough this update.

10 hours ago, WWHSD said:

trigger on Conflagration that allows her to take an additional action seems like it will drop her damage output.

Thing is that trigger was very limited as you could only trigger into immolate and half the time it wasn't worth doing as burning wasn't high enough.

ive always felt that the turn it up trigger should be on up we go, it would be much more useful there in my opinion 

Another note on smoulder is that it is a separate damage source from the main attack. This means it is effected by damage reduction abilities sepratly. 

For example you do weak damage and smoulder against an armour 2 model it will take 2 damage overal, 1 from the weak and 1 from smoulder. On the other hand against shielded +2 you will only do 1 damage, 1 from weak and 0 from smoulder (but you do clear all the shielded)

Another, another note is that it's burning damage which will trigger heat exhaustion on the eternal flame.