cbtb11235813

8 hours ago, longfanz said:

He finally got Vidiya Guards XD

Which is great, because having poison gamin in his box never made a whole lot of sense

51 minutes ago, Bluefyr said:

So looking at just one ability in a vacuum isnt the most helpful. I think you need to play games and see just how good or bad it is in the different schemes and strats. 

This. We have been doing Mathifaux since day one of closed beta. Lots and lots and lots of it. Obviously there are a lot of opinions on both sides of this argument, and the math is pretty clearly fuzzy. The only way we are ever going to really figure this out is repetition. Give it 6 months out in the wild, and we will see what happens. If Dreamer ends up dominating, then we can adjust

Looks like this thread will be hidden soon, I may move it over to the regular discussion after that makes the switch. Anyway,

This thread backs up what I had already thought. The "pick 3" for the Arcanist faction seems the be Sandeep, Hoffman and Colette. As in, if you wanna play in competitive tournaments, you can bring those 3 and have all your bases covered. This is a pretty small sample size (9 people have voted at the time of posting), but still relevant. 

I'm very interested to see how the Arcanist "meta" develops. Given how monolithic Sandeep was at the end of 2e, I'm hopeful to see more masters played at higher level tournaments. Personally I still think Sandeep is the best in our faction, but not nearly by the margin he used to be. And who knows, maybe @retnab is right and Mei Feng truly is the new gospel, or maybe Kaeris will end up way better than she seems. So many cool things to watch develop in a new edition

55 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Like with the New and Renamed Models list, am recopying here before the Beta Forums close.

Just as a followup here, based on the semi-recent announcement of the special order policy, the stuff that isn't available already, or isn't definitely going to be released as a full box (ie, Cornelius). Quite a few I fully expect to be available as individual boxes and so not need special order (Order Initiates, Kabuki Warriors), but until we see box listings, it's hard to be sure.

So here's the curated list of stuff from the "New and Renamed Models" thread, that excludes all the stuff that has just been renamed, or all the stuff that was previously available (ie, Backdraft/Undying).

Am still peeved at having to get Elijah and the Firebranded special order, because the Fire Golem (who should be individual because of his dual nature ability with Sandeep) was added to their box.

Am annoyed that I'll either have to do the same with Von Shtook because of Anna, or eat the cost for a miniature I don't want (I like old Anna much better). In place of Anna, a Student of Viscera (and a box with 2 Steel/2 Sinew), or a Steel and a Sinew (and a box with Visc/Steel/Sinew) would have been a much more elegant solution, IMO. Then you just re-release the old Transmortis box, and it's all done.

Figure I'm probably gonna get hosed on Desper, as I fully expect they will be in a boxed set with Hucksters, and as they're all new models, not available for special order. Because I've already GOT Hucksters. Because of the (3) limitation on Wastrels, and having 3 Miss Anne Thropes, that was the easiest proxy decision I could make. Anyone got a good proxy option for Desper? I'm figuring a female Indiana Jones-ish type is probably what's going to happen, so I'd like that in theme.

EDIT: Removed the ones available individually on the Wyrd release schedule. Also, I was right on the Desper/Huckster box, though wrong it'd be a female Indy, and is instead a Garrett the Thief guy. Don't like.
EDIT2: Added Mancha, due to Keyword change.

What exactly is wrong with the special orders? That are specifically designed to alleviate issues with rebuying models. "Oh no they bundled a model I have with models I don't. But they gave me the option to buy just the ones I don't have. How dare they." Whoever you buy your stuff from will be able to order the sans-golem box, so what is the problem?

As for the Hucksters, sorry you made proxies for models you knew would be releasing, likely soon? For literally everyone who didn't do that, having them bundled is great. Buy the McCabe core box, and the huckster/desper box and you have basically the whole keyword. Lowers price per model and reduces SKU bloat, which retailers like.

4 minutes ago, yool1981 said:

I can understand that.

I just feel they look too "fantasy" and not enough "steampunky" (not very clear I know). And perhaps I was expecting something more akeen to the cult of the burning man and less like a posse  of elemental mages.

To me they look like Fiery Doomseekers, so they definitely check the "Cult" box for me

On 5/17/2019 at 8:31 AM, yool1981 said:

I am bored just by looking at the art of Elijah and friends. There was so much better to do with the concept.

Strongly disagree, those Firebranded look fantastic

18 hours ago, solkan said:

If the store has to special order it and you have to wait to get it, why are ordering it from the store again?

To support a local business that you play at? I almost exclusively buy things from my LGS, and special order just about everything I get. In return they provide a fantastic place to play and grow the community. When I can go meet up for a game at Ebay or Amazon then maybe that will change

As my 2 cents on Lucid Dream, I've played probably 15 games against Dreamer, with just about every iteration of him throughout the beta. I really don't think Lucid Dream is a problem. The amount of effort that needs to go into removing 10 cards a turn makes it not viable in most cases. I've seen multiple people try to break it, and every time it fizzles. 

That being said, I think Stitched are incredibly strong. I've been bringing 3 of them with Collodi, and they are the only "beaters" I bring, and are more easily abused in a Collodi crew. Are they totally busted? Not sure about that, but they are definitely on the upper end of the curve.

8 minutes ago, Barmution said:

Technically you can start out with whatever the scheme pool needs and still have some Lucid Dreaming to go around while summoning in even more since LD can be done while buried.

You absolutely cannot take this action while buried. From Pg. 33, "They still Activate, but they cannot take Actions." So unless Lucid Dream, or the model performing it specifically state they can take the action while buried, they can't. 

4 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Barring some really weird tricks from opponents (Split the Soul shenanigans from Yan Lo I've seen, for example) I think we have a wonderfully varied tool box in our different Arcanist masters. Most can build crews can do most things in their own ways, and our versatile models (while not as bonkers good as some Thunders things) are excellent at plugging holes in various crew deficiencies if they play out of their obvious strong suit(s).

I totally agree. None of our masters I've played seem like auto-lose into any of the strategies. Some certainly struggle more than others, but they aren't unplayable 

So it sounds like a handful of crew boxes caught up to the normal price for them, and a couple lost minis. I'm fine with that, the company needs to make something, and $5 here or there isn't going to break me. On the other hand though, many things are now cheaper than they were. At first glance, more things got cost reductions than increases. Riders/A&D went down $5, the Emissaries now come with free Effigies at the same cost as before (so an $11) drop. Plus, more things are being bundled into keyword packs, which are almost always cheaper than buying the minis individually. So, not to worry, the sky is not falling

4 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Schemes, sch-memes. I have had No Prisoners hunters thrown in my face as self-healing, better-statted mini-peacekeepers. Hoffman just has so many 10ss choices, though...

He does have an awful lot. And for the most part they all seem good

I've seen someone put No Prisoners on a Hunter, and that worked quite well. Basically it allowed his two hunters to run up opposite flanks to run schemes, but still get pot-shots in without sacrificing movement. Was it worth it? No clue. But it sure looked fun 

Shamelessly stolen from @Kolath

Lets talk about our faction going into M3E!

I think you might take the mage against certain masters, but most of the time the effigy should be enough. Someone like Kaeris spamming burning to a lot of models, or Raspy with lots of slow might justify the mage, but it gets pretty expensive out of keyword

7 hours ago, Angelshard said:

 you can only use fiends gamble once per turn

You aren't exactly right on that. They can only do it once per activation, which is a very important distinction. For example, I played Collodi the other day, and s/he and Vas can make them gamble during their activation, so they can use Fiendish again. You become limited by how many Lucid Dreamers you have, but you can still get some more mileage out of them with obeyers

2 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

Mostly I am surprised there are already enough fire golems in players’ hands that this is a problem. From everything I read about dickering and trading less-wanted parts of Backdraft, there were fewer golems than players and I thought the second-hand market for fire golems (to players who own Sandeep but not Kaeris ((yet)) ) would be very healthy.

He’s going to get the Oxfordian mages certainly, but I can’t guess who Ironsides will get in her core box now. Miners are useful for Colette also, steamfitters are explicitly dual-keyword...

Toni is so Henchman focused it might just be her, Mouse, and her 3 henchmen  

(hopefully not really)

So for models that I expect to be taken out of keyword. Not necessarily often, because I don't think you'll see a ton of out of Keyword hiring, at least at first (lots of salt needed, the game is still very new and they are definitely fun interactions no one has found yet)

Masters
Sandeep - He summons gamin, which 3 of our other masters have in their keyword, which gives him pretty decent utility. Since he is limited to 2 summons when not leading, and doesn't bring Bana for free, I'm wondering how often Sandeep will be taken as a second, instead of Sandeep hiring a second master himself
Collette - She is a fantastic schemer who doesn't really rely on her keyword models to function, so she seems attractive in a scheme heavy pool

Henchmen
Kandara - Similar to Sandeep she is attractive to a master that already has elementals (gamin/golem) in keyword. Even at 9 stones she seems decent: shes is difficult to kill, is a fast decent scheme runner, has moderate damage potential with flurry, actions to move friendly models around, and has some fantastic card draw potential. Kaeris likes her even more because of Flameborne
Cassandra - Another good schemer, but her Upstage might prove super useful outside of Performers? No idea on this one but seems like it could be good 
Firestarter - 8 stones gets you Mv 7, Flight and Reckless. There really isn't anything else to say on that

Captain and Envy are versatile, and each have their strengths. Captain is Min 3 and Agile, and Envy brings some shooting to crews that don't have it.

Enforcers
Essence of Power - An aura for +1 in all opposed duels is very strong, and I can see this little guy showing up frequently, especially for someone like Rapsy who can stand in her deployment and still hit most of the board. Also good for a "bubble crew" like Ironsides. Or you stick it next Hoffman+Peacekeeper and watch your opponent cry
Effigy/Emissary - Both of these are solid. Condition removal/fast min 3 respectively. The effigy being only 4 stones makes him easy to slot into a crew, even if he just ends up babysitting a turf marker
Mech Rider - Absolutely a staple in my crews. Very fast scheme runner, who's Rider action makes her even better at it. She can help set up combos/reduce control hand pressure by building in suits, or just straight up reactivate your beater. I will be using her often

Minions
Medical Automaton - This one makes sense, since it was originally versatile. Good healing for 5 stones, its good

As for our versatile minions, I think we have a pretty great suite of them. All of them have a job, and seem good at it.  Some of these may become counterpicks/scheme dependent usuals

Steam Arachnid Swarm hits harder than it probably should at 8 stones, on top being quick (nimble) and durable (thanks to evasive and self healing)
Steam Arachnid is a 3 stone significant model, and it has Latch On and Evasive. I'm not sure what more you want out of 3 stones
Soulstone Miner has proven to be a fan favorite, if nothing due to its flexibility. It can be a scheme runner, a scheme hunter, can gain you soulstones, or can be a counterpick against a terrain crew. It can't do everything at once, but it does so many things pretty well
At 5 stones Saboteurs have to be one of the better anti-schemers in their price range, with the ability to remove 3 scheme markers a turn at range
Finally, against the right crew Mecharachnids can be absolutely brutal, because Precise ignores damn near everything. They aren't good enough to be hired often as a beater, but against a high armor/HTW crew they should easily be worth 6

17 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Yep, same model; not every model will receive a resculpt.

For M3E, we made an effort to consolidate models via Keyword so that the game is more accessible, and so store shelves don't cry tears of pain by holding up so many of our boxes. You'll see some models move around because of this. 

A while back, a "worshipers of flame" or something along those lines was teased that included the Firebranded and Elijah, Has this box replaced that?

Or what I'm really asking is if I already have a Fire Golem, can I get the other models in this box without getting another Golem (maybe through the first year special orders?)

Very excited for all the TOS goodness!

Also the Double Rush event sounds like a blast

I tried out Collodi last night against Hoffman, having him hit the Peacekeeper, and telling it to hit Hoffman seemed solid

My go to is Yarazi, if no other reason they cost 1 tactic less than the other things that I would summon. Plus I'm never sad to have more super quick runners around

On 4/30/2019 at 7:55 AM, Jesy Blue said:

Loyal To the Coin, One Born Every Minute, & Burning Bridges are the only names of boxes with new models without a obvious description. 

Loyal to the Coin - Possible for McCabe? Hucksters, Desper Laraux, etc
One Born Every Minute - I have to believe is gremlins, probably Big Hat. Georgy&Olaf, Good Ol' Boy, Spit Hog
Burning Bridges I am really not sure. Based on the price it seems like it must be some sort of Encounter box, maybe a 3e starter?

In my experience (playing Sandeep against Charm Warders) turning off demise abilities is no joke. Also "Sandeep can just summon things outside of their no-summon bubble" is true. But if you are dictating where exactly he summons his models, they are still doing their job

Do you have any sort of data to back this up? I've played against Carver many, many times and he seems just fine to me. It seems like a lot of your argument revolves around "I really like how this model looks, make it an autotake/OP"