thewrathchilde

12 minutes ago, Jordon said:

I don't feel like Cojo needs a damage buff specifically. I feel like he needs to better carve out his role as a board control model. Cerberus is the damage dealer, Mauler is the tank and Cojo should be the anti schemer/board controller. To that regard he's pretty good, I just feel like he's mostly over costed. Marcus has a rather top heavy crew and dropping Cojo down (and a few others IMO) would be a better way to go than to try and make them fit for their current cost.

I could agree with that. I would be fine with him if he was cheaper.....my comments were focused on what he would need to be worth 10 SS. If he was cheaper he would be fine as is; alternately decrease a few wounds and make him significantly cheaper but give him Hard to Kill and that might be all right too. 

what were your (both players) thoughts on the Metal Golem? It seemed from the report like he provided some value with Sparks in the list to make him fast. Other than that I just haven't seen him provide the impact/mileage I would expect for his cost. 

He is really survivable but his stats aren't very good and with no way to get extra attacks (outside of something like Sparks to make him fast). Generally it seems like he is going to spend 1 action every turn on Ride the Rails to get in position and then one action to attack wit maybe the trigger to Vent Steam if you are lucky.....not a real good return for a 10 SS model. I really think he needs Flurry to be worth his cost. Otherwise maybe a trigger on his melee attack to let him take his Off the Rails action.

56 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

I haven't tried Cojo personally (mostly because he seems too expensive for what he does except in maybe specific circumstances), but from other reports I've read on here it sounds like he could use a re-work anyway.

Yeah, generally I think that is a pretty accurate assessment. I have used him just because I wanted to try him out and verify and I was pretty disappointed with his performance. He is too easily hit, is not survivable, etc. I do think there are certain schemes he is good at/helps with either because of his push or his ability to get rid of scheme markers. But outside of these specific schemes I I don't think he is worth it. 

56 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Honestly, if he needs a specific mutation to be worth it, on top of needing a specific suit, I'd say he needs the re-work regardless.

that might be the case.....I am just hesitant to ask for a re-work because I saw that go south several times during the closed Beta where things got re-worked, looked decent, had one or two models that needed tweaks, and then the whole thing came off the rails. 

54 minutes ago, Jordon said:

Then that sounds like a Cojo problem. If he's not worth taking without mutation support then he probably does need to be re-tooled. 

Personally I don't like triggers on mutations. Passive abilities such as armour give a a nice reliable bonus but triggers are tricky in that they rely on a 1/4 chance of flipping the proper suit (or having it to cheat). 

I don't know that he needs a complete re-work though I do think he needs help. Probably with a few small changes- min 3 damage, another bonus action (Juggernaut), and different triggers on his tactical actions...especially Called Out; this one really bothers me- for it to go off Cojo had to already use the Tactical action so then a model is getting Adversary Cojo (potentially) when he only has one action left for the turn and Adversary will go away before Cojo can activate again....at a minimum this should be something that gives the model a longer lasting affect. I also think the needs Hard to Wound given his lack of other defensive abilities. 

4 hours ago, Passenty said:

Thats a reason i would like to get any utility mutation so he has something to do instead to go through all those hoops(the mentioned tns are not helping either and not only marcus has them, myranda needs a 6s for everything she does).

I just want the charge on call of the Wild to be allowed even if the model is engaged or allow it to take a melee attack if already engaged. 

5 hours ago, Boomstick said:

If Onslaught is the concern there, remove it from Thick Horns for Armor Piercing or something. Overall, Marcus would feel more beastmaster than beastannoyer if Call of the Wild made the target take an action.

NO...please don't take away Onslaught. Unless Cojo is completely re-tooled having this on the Upgrade that can go on Cojo is the only thing that even remotely gives him a prayer of being useful. 

8 hours ago, Winterfeld said:

2. He is useless out m&su

I told you before, why that's a design problem. But all you have to say is: but he's great with Tony and Amina. No matter, what try to show you, you just sit around the fact, how well he works in the bubble. Howard needs his power token to use his full potential. I can't tell how much I hate the new steamfitter. That's just mediocre design. Def5 won't fix any problem. He is on mediocre model, and higher Def won't fix anything on that. 

Imo he needs a functional token mechanic in m&su and a selling point outside the keword. 

 

well....that is his keyword (plus Augmented). The whole keyword design concept is that models have  more synergy within their keyword than outside. 

Sure there are some that are still attractive outside of keyword and there are some who are either Versatile or Versatile plus a keyword. In Howard's case he isn't even a Versatile model so people shouldn't have a significant expectation that he is going to be great or an auto-take outside of keyword. 

2 hours ago, Kolath said:

All we want is in a VS crew to be able to buff the non-beast models we hire. Simply making it "Self or Target non-master, non-beast" solves the master super friends crew while still letting him do his thing as a leader.

I would have to see it in play to be certain but I think there are still some pretty awesome options out there now even with the Minion restriction. Shielded, Rocket Booted, Hard to Kill Desolation sill look pretty brutal as well and within his Keyword being able to attach them to Arik, Laz, Hannah, etc is still pretty good as well. 

4 minutes ago, Jordon said:

Based on my experience hiring two gunsmiths will do more work than Howard + Steamfitter, not to mention they are way easier to make use of the Injured Workers aura. I don't like having my expensive assassin robot leashed to other models and that's how it feels right now.

I took all 4. The Gunsmiths do good work for sure in the right situation though they struggle a little bit against armor and opponents that take advantage of terrain. They are definitely some of my favorites in M&SU though.

I know a lot of people bag on the Steamfitter and I have considered other choices as well fill the same spot but like several of the things he brings- she provides scrap for Howard, the provides a heal for constructs, can hand out Shielded, and is another way to drop multiple scheme markers in a turn making it easy to score Detonate and several other schemes. 

10 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Tried out Marcus and friends again last night and, as a whole, they're in a much better place than when I last tried them. The additional card draw from Marcus' aura when a Mutation is discarded really helps, and it had me more actively setting up times to discard mutations for the and suite. So, primary concern of card hunger is at least somewhat helped. 

yep, my experience as well. I was routinely getting a couple of extra cards per turn in my game. Not earth shattering or anywhere near the card cycle of other crews but enough that it helped as I found him/the crew to be very card hungry. I rarely could bring myself to discard for suits though even though it might have helped with the need for cards/suits as I was hard pressed to give up the upgrades after the investment of getting them on the models and then frequently having them away from Marcus where if I discarded the upgrade I wasn't likely to have an opportunity to get it back on them. 

10 hours ago, Boomstick said:

On the other hand, the Slate Ridge Mauler was amazing. With some help from Marcus and a few lucky flips vs Terrifying, it ate Archie (side point, playing him into Molly is hilarious. He can block LoS so Marcus can ignore Lethe's Caress, while the bear itself actually enjoys taking the damage from it so he gets to his Grit faster, then heals in one of a few different ways.)

I haven't tried out the Mauler. I will have to look at him again. I had considered him as a cheaper alternative to Cojo after my disappointment with his performance and might have to try it in a future game. 

10 hours ago, Boomstick said:

My remaining concerns are that Vogel still has no reliable trick he can do as the Beast that warrants discarding a card to shapeshift, and as he can't maintain a mutation through shapeshifting, he can't discard them for the suits, which would allow him to reliably use the Beast's more interesting triggers.

I just can't find a reason to take him over the other choices available. Chimera is one of the crews I just feel so limited on good selections. In most of the other crews I can bring myself to slide in a versatile model or even pay the tax for something out of the keyword to fill a specific role but in this crew it is hard for me to do that without feeling like I am compromising my ability to give upgrades, moves/charges, etc. Having choices that just don't seem relevant make that even worse. Vogel is one of those for me....

10 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Considering Shapeshift could be better streamlined between Vogel and Myranda anyway to allow for a Mutation to be kept and to free up a bonus action on Myranda's card, if that change was made and the Beast was Given Adaptive Evolution (and Vogel wasn't) that would solve both issues with two minor changes.

So Myranda would lose her Beast Shape bonus action and gain an ability like: "Shapechange (lesser cost in-faction Beast): At the 
start of this model's Activation, it may Heal 2 and Replace itself 
with a lesser cost Beast from the crew's declared faction, keeping one attached Mutation upgrade." 

this....100%. I don't like to advocate for a lot of changes without a whole lot of effort to see how I can mitigate perceived problems/vulnerabilities through play but this would help Myranda significantly. With her I am always facing the choice of upgrade cycle/card draw and swapping into the needed form for the given situation. This would increase her usefulness drastically and enable both. 

10 hours ago, Boomstick said:

The other concern I had from the crew I tested was that Order Initiates are either too expensive for their cost, or aren't given enough tech for their cost. Yes they get a free Mutation and can cycle them without Marcus' help, but that does not make up for their otherwise mediocre stats. For a single stone more I'd much rather take another Cerberus or Mauler. I don't think they need much, but Df 6, or maybe Hard to Wound (to show their anatomy is in flux) would go a long way. Otherwise, dropping them to 6ss might be enough?

I am in so much agreement with this! I have gotten almost no value out of the Order Initiates. They are my anti-MVP. Typically I get a card out of the upgrade cycle turn 1-2 and then the Order Initiate is dead without really providing any other value except soaking a couple of shots. Def 6 might be enough to change that....otherwise maybe regeneration and Hard to Wound. The cost reduction would be nice and more in line with what they bring but overall 1 SS probably wouldn't make much of a difference as I usually only have one in my list anyway. It would better differentiate them in cost with the Blessed and other available options though. 

10 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Still annoyed that the Hoarcats are the only Beast negatively affected by being hired into a Chimera crew, but didn't actively test them last night since nothing on them has changed since my previous tests.

yeah....I really wish they brought more to the table to give me a reason to use them. I liked them in M2E and used them with multiple masters but just can't find a reason to take them over something else now. 

10 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Also have never tested Cojo as he currently just doesn't interest me for his cost: again, for 2 stones less I can take a Mauler or a Cerberus.

I have tried Cojo and was really disappointed with him. My thought was that with Thick Horns he would be a melee beast getting charges from Marcus with + flips to the damage and a trigger for Onslaught.......in practice he is just too squishy and too easy to hit. At a minimum he needs a built in heal and maybe something like Rush to help him with the maneuverability. 

39 minutes ago, Winterfeld said:

I don't want to be harsh, but let me be honest. At his state, there is no reason to ever spend the points outside a m&su crew. If that's your definition of a flawless design, good for you (no offense, really) but as you can see, the majority of the users here are not happy with him at the moment. And in my opinion for good reasons. 

I never said he was flawless but IMO design and balance is relative. You (general not specifically you personally) can't just look at a model through the "in M2E he was beast and I don't get the same mileage here" lens. You have to look at how the model functions in M3E, how he works with his crew, and how he compares to other options available....

I think he still brings  a lot to the table. Would I like to see some things change- sure, I especially would like to see him get +1 Def, maybe get built in Critical Strike like most of the other models with Executioner Claws, and maybe even see his Terrifying increase.....if they want to change his Power Token generation to make him get them more easily I am fine with that as well. I just think there are a lot of things about him that are still good and I really like his current Bonus action in an M&SU crew because IMO it is much more flexible than Nimble (the option to walk OR attack is twice as many options as Nimble) and think a lot of the complaints are based on opinion and initial reaction not experience.....I played him in my M&SU crew and was much happier with his performance than  I had initially thought I was going to be.

I could also see taking him in a Foundry crew as well though in that crew I am obviously not going to get the extra AP as reliably but there are other synergies there I think I can use. 

I got it that we all have different opinions and I apparently am almost always in the minority but my perception (probably wrong) is that a lot of people's first response or reaction is that something has to be changed rather than looking at what the designers have already provided us and seeing how it can be used or work. 

10 hours ago, Winterfeld said:

Trail of gore is not flexible. Because it forces you to stick around ironsides or Amina. And your opponent knows that too, what makes a Howard played like that highly predictable. 

 

I don't like models with only a single purpose. And hanging around another model for the whole game, just to get another Ap seems not like a good deal to mee. 

 

9 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

Even if he doesn't get three 'real' AP, his output stayed the same 2AP, I'd rather he wasn't semi-tied to his crew.

He used to be a free-roaming combat threat, but the current Grit situation makes it too obviously inefficient to use him like that, making him yet another Union blob member.

4 hours ago, retnab said:

One of the things the M&SU have struggled with from day one is bubbling up.  

I quoted these together to minimize my responses.....I get it people feel like taking advantage of his Grit to get the extra "AP" force you to group....however it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. With Ironsides and Amina both having the Aura and it only requiring Howard to be within 6" to get the benefit you can cover a significant portion of the board and still have him get the benefit. With their base size both Amina and Ironsides have a roving 13" diameter bubble that together makes an almost 26" x 13" bubble within which he can operate if Amina and Ironsides are 14" apart. This covers a significant portion of the board giving him a lot of room within which to operate. 

Additionally he doesn't have to stay within 6" the entire time to get the benefit. He can start within 6", use the AP to attack or Move and then get his two other actions normally which still extends his reach as much as Nimble would have but also lets me just use if to attack with in situations where I need that more and he is within the distance from them.

In my Ironsides game my entire crew wasn't bubble a la Brewmaster style....it was more like 2-3 separate fire teams or kill squads of 2-3 models at a time. This generally let me take advantage of Injured Workers Act and then often an activation later take advantage of Unionized as well. Typically the first model (Toni/Howard) in the charge has to survive the opponents next activation without Unionized but then once the second mode comes into the enemy formation then you get the benefit of that as well. 

It is not that difficult to use Howard and benefit from his Grit ability with both of them in the list. You don't have to ball up you just have to think about activation orders and either end with Howard near one of them so he can get it next turn or activate one of them earlier so they either end near him or after he moves/charges he is near them to get the other AP.

If other people don't like it and don't want their actions dictated as necessary to maximize his effectiveness that's fine but that comes down to personnel choice and play style preferences not a structural flaw in his design. The only thing I think he needs is maybe +1 Defense. Sure he isn't always going to maximize both his Grit, Unionized, and Power Tokens in every crew but that is a product of him being designed to operate in two different crews which each provide him more opportunity to use/maximize the effectiveness of the different abilities he has. 

What Version of the Playtest Documents were you using?2/14/19

StrategyPlant Explosives- Standard Deployment

Scheme ListDetonate the Charges, Breakthrough, Dig Their Graves, Power Ritual, Outflank

Time & Rounds Played2 Hours; 3 Rounds

Final ScoreArcanists - 4, Ten Thunders - 2

Forum Name thewrathchilde

LeaderMarcus

Crew ListMarcus, Jackalope, Myranda, Cojo, Blessed of December, Order Initiate, Sabertooth Cerebus, Soulstone Miner + 3 Soulstones

Strategy VP Scored2

Scheme 1 & VP ScoredOutflank - 1

Scheme 2 & VP ScoredBreakthrough - 1

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently? probably hire something other than Cojo....he just does not perform for his points. Theoretically with Thick Horns giving him + flips to damage on the charge and Onslaught as well as his native ability to charge multiple times he should have been a murder machine and bought to deal with. In reality a couple of easy shots from McCabe and Sidir and he was pretty much dead, slow, staggered, and not contributing very much....in the course of the game he soaked up resources (of mine) and managed to kill a 5 SS Ruffian. Maybe Armored Plates would have worked better for him but then....min 2 damage just doesn't cut it for a 10 SS model....not sure what my substitution would be since there aren't that many other options but I don't think Cojo performed well enough and would hesitate to take him unless there is a specific scheme for him (Claim Territory).

MVP model (and Why?)Blessed of December- the mobility, the high defense, he was instrumental in scoring the strategy, Breakthrough, and would have single handedly given me the other half of Breakthrough had we continued.

Forum Namenot on the forum

LeaderMcCabe

Crew ListMcCabe, Lune, Fuhatsu w/ Silent Protector, Sidir Archibald, Samurai w/From the Shadows, Ruffian, Ruffian, Ruffian + 4 SS

Strategy VP Scored1

Scheme 1 & VP ScoredDig Their Graves - 1

Scheme 2 & VP ScoredOutflank - 1

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently? Held McCabe until later in the turn on turn 3 and used my pass tokens first in order to protect him. Probably should have pushed Fuhatsu into the center faster to get him in range where he could have had a greater impact on a larger portion of the board instead of trying to chase down must faster models that broke through to my side

MVP model (and Why?)McCabe for his speed, versatility, ability to enhance the maneuverability of other parts of the crew as well as his ability to blast and slow multiple models.

Concerns and/or Confusions? 

Additional Feedback?Soulstone Miner performed great in this game. In my last game I was pretty down on him for his inability to rapidly accomplish certain schemes given his limitation that he always treats Interacts as a bonus action so can't scheme & Bury or Scheme and Un-bury in the same turn....makes perfect sense otherwise he would be way to good.

This game gave me a much different perspective. Instead of taking him for accomplishing something like Power Ritual which pretty much takes him the entire game to put down 2 different markers in corners in this game with schemes like Outflank that only require you to show up at the right time he performed really well. In this game he gave me 3 x Soulstones back (and probably would have given me 3 more if we had continued) and showed up at the right time to help score Outflank.

So we stopped after 3 turns due to time and board state. At the end of turn 3 he had 3 models left (Luna, Fuhatsu, and the Samurai). I had only lost the Jackalope and the Order Initiate at that point and was positioned where I could score the second half of Breakthrough unopposed, continue scoring the strategy (I had also picked up or acquired through killing several of his bombs), and would also be able to score the other half of Outflank. He might have been able to get 1 more point from Plant Explosives and could have set up the second point for Dig but would have had trouble stopping me from picking up/pulsing away his scheme markers. It turned out to be a pretty lopsided game as he had a few tactical errors in deployment and was way too aggressive with his Ruffians, underestimating the maneuverability of the Chimera crew and the ability of Marcus to effectively multiply the AP of the models with Onslaught. 

The under performers in the Chimera crew were definitely Cojo, as discussed earlier (and in other peoples reports, and the Order Initiate. I was pretty unsure of the Order Initiate to begin with but I took him because Marcus is really card hungry (IMO) and his upgrade cycle provides an extra card a turn and I figured with upgrades on him that he could still punch pretty decently.....he is another model I just wasn't;t really happy with in practice. I ended up putting camouflage on him to keep him "safe" from shooting and charges but the McCabe crew was fast enough that he was able to get inside the 6" and light him up. Between Sidir blasting onto him from a shot on Cojo and then McCabe getting in close and netting him he died on turn 2 without accomplishing anything except soaking some of the Thunder's AP......I still think you almost have to have him in the list as you are pretty limited on models in that cost range without going outside of keyword.....maybe that is an option but I think in a Marcus crew you can less afford to go outside of keyword than in a number of the other crews as then most of Marcus's tricks aren't going to work. 

I really struggle on both the Order Initiate and on Cojo for what is needed to help then or what the other options are.....with the Chimera maybe 1 higher Def would be enough but even then I don't think he really stacks up to other similarly costed models. I understand this is because of Marcus's mechanic and he can't be too good before you slap upgrades on him but when I compare him to the Blessed, the Cerebus, or even the Slate Ridge Mauler I just don't know this guy provides enough. I pretty much only took him over a different choice because of the extra card he provided me but think I would have been better off just going with something else and Arcane Reservoir maybe.... Cojo needs more than just 1 higher Defense. Given his cost he needs more.....maybe Juggernaut instead so he has another bonus action that he can get more mileage of out of and maybe min 3 damage.

22 minutes ago, BFOmega said:

You missed the part about giving him back nimble, so he'd be psuedo-fast from that, unless you managed to not need to move that turn.

Also, I didn't notice until now that he lost Flurry. That seems like it would be plenty to get him back to his old self, though I like the Trail->nimble and changing the grit. The power token idea is cool, or maybe not have to discard a card to flurry if that gets added.

I saw the part about Nimble but prefer the flexibility of Trail of Gore. When he is within 6” of either Amina or Toni then Trail can give you the same benefit as Nimble.... BUT can also give you an additional attack if you need it too.

I think Trail is much superior with them for the utility and for the anti-scheming of giving me incidental marker removal too. 

Sure Flurry would be cool but I don’t think we are likely to see it at this point and overall I don’t think he needs a complete report-tool. The designers did a good job people just need to capitalize off of what he does have and then provide feedback on what, if anything, does need improved. 

I just disagree with the assertion that his current Grit ability isn’t good when M&SU has the tools to make sure he can use it every turn. 

On 2/20/2019 at 1:14 AM, bedjy said:

Nope, those batrep were made during the Closed Beta in the Blue group. we also played games between the two beta. But nothing has changed since then on the field

Except the cost..... I don’t know that I would have fielded him at 10 but now they are all even more expensive at 11......

Meh Rider........ I just look at Pale and Dead and see what could be....

I disagree on a number of points but agree whole heartedly on Cojo.

He just doesn’t stack up for his cost and some of his triggers just don’t make sense. With his current Defense and lack of other defenses he is one of the least survivable of the 10 SS models. Sure he can get armor through a mutation...... but he still isn’t doing a whole lot at that point anyway. 

At a minimum he needs something like Juggernaut as an additional bonus action on the survivability front and then probably needs min 3 damage for his cost. 

I also think the trigger on Rude Sign Language needs to change too. Called Out might be best if it didn’t go away in the End Phase but most likely he had to move/charge prior to using it and is doing the push as his action in which case the trigger is going to do exactly nothing for him at all as the Adversary Cojo is going to go away before his next activation. 

Not throwing stones or intending to slight anyone but my limited experience with him in M&SU was that he is great. Between his Grit and Amina and Ironsides’ aura he was 3 AP every turn needed and with Unionized was pretty survivable as well. 

I had my doubts about Howard prior to my game yesterday comparing him to his M2E version but after getting the crew on the table I was pretty pleased with his performance. I don’t know that he is an auto take but he is still really good. 

I would rather have his current Grit pseudo fast when he is near Amina or Ironsides than him get a power token he can get from elsewhere..... just don’t see the POV where a + flip or suit is better than an extra when you can get the power token other ways. 

If the Grit changes you are most likely not getting the extra action from the Trail of Gore....

i just support trying the current version and seeing how you can make it effective before advocating for change without actually trying the available solutions. 

3 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

@Winterfeld Why, you mad genius! That’s perfect!  Powers him up for Ironsides, doesn’t (much) affect Hoffman. Yes, please make this Howard’s new Grit immediately!

Please don’t! Howard’s current Grit ability is great in and M&SU crew. With Amina and Toni in the crew with The Injured Workers Act you get plenty of mileage out of his Grit ability and his current Trail of Gore Binus Action.

Sure you don’t get as much Power Token goodness in an M&SU crew but you do get some from Steamfitters making scrap early which can give him some tokens and the trade off is worth it to have him with the pseudo 3 AP instead. 

The only thing Howard needs if anything is +1 Defense and then he is print ready. 

6 hours ago, INXVI said:

Terracotta Warrior - I just threw him into the crew, he was too slow to keep up with Bill and act as a medi-bot, I didn't want to invest my lures into helping him keep up, if he would struggle to maintain range, so I instead used him to interact with the Turf War marker. I saved a high mask so he could turn into a Kunoichi, but he died before the Kunoichi did, so he ended up being pretty useless. I can see that he may have a place, but non-bonus tactical actions were very absent in my crew, so I definitely used him wrong. However, at first glance I don't know where he would be useful, I will have to look at other crews to determine this.

Once they changed the Mimic ability to Just Like You back in the Closed Beta I have just struggled to find any use for him at all..... sure, I understand that the pure Mimic was probably too much on a model that cheap but I just can't seem to find a reason to include him in most lists now. I still tried him in  a few lists with the idea that Mold of the Other could allow me to bring back a more effective/better model and enable me to play the Enforcer more aggressively but even that doesn't seem t o work out for me or justify including him over something that will provide value to begin with.

overall I enjoyed playing Ironsides. This was my first M3E game with her (or Arcanists- I have multiple Arcanists crews but primarily have played Thunders, Ressers, and Guild in the Beta) so things went  a little slower and we only made it through 3 turns. I tried to carefully balance the auras from Ironsides and Amina to provide maximum benefit to me while letting me pick targets and focus on the strategies and schemes.

I had my doubts about Amina prior to the game as she is a lot of stones for a model that doesn't deal damage but she was invaluable in this game. The no charge attack aura significantly slowed down his usual aggressive approach and put us in a trading fire situation on turn 2 which definitely worked to my favor. Unionized was invaluable also and enabled me to pitch a lot of cards to get stones from Extended Claims and still be really defensive and survivable. 

I also had my doubts about Toni's overall survivability also minus the tricks from M2E to give her armor, etc and with the lack of Hard to Kill but between Amina and the Steamfitter giving her shielded, Unionized, with Adrenaline, and the amount of stones I had with Amina making more she is still a tank and was never in any real danger in this game of even being significantly injured. 

Between Walk the Line on Amina, Creep Along on the Gunsmiths, and Bring It on Ironsides there is tons of mobility enhancement that enables the crew to be very efficient with their actions. After turn 1 the Gunsmiths were rarely walking at all and were able to use almost all their actions for shooting, scheming, or anti-scheming (Target Practice). With Amina and Ironsides both in the crew I was able to spread out Injured Workers Act enough that I didn't have to completely ball up and was able to split into strike teams where I could go after multiple objectives (Turf Markers, Ley Line, etc) without compromising the ability of the crew to work together and buff each there. 

I don't think the Ironside's crew is something I can/would play into any pool- there are definitely strategies and schemes where my Marcus or even Mei Feng (theoretically) would perform much better but I do think she is playable (even if not optimal) in the right circumstances. I will definitely have to play some more games with her as well to see if my initial reaction holds throughout more practice.

What Version of the Playtest Documents were you using?2/14/19

StrategyTurf War- Corner Deployment

Scheme List: Power Ritual, Detonate the Charges, Harness the Ley Line, Assassinate, Take Prisoner

Time & Rounds Played 2 Hours, 3 Rounds

Final Score: Arcanists- 4, Ten Thunders- 3

Forum Namethewrathchilde

LeaderToni Ironsides

Crew List: Toni Ironsides, Mouse, Amina Naidu, Gunsmith, Gunsmith, Union Steamfitter, Howard Langston, Soulstone Miner

Strategy VP Scored 2

Scheme 1 & VP ScoredHarness The Ley Line- 1

Scheme 2 & VP ScoredPower Ritual - 1

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently?Would probably swap out the Soulstone Miner for either a Union Miner or another choice. The Soulstone Miner has some neat abilities and the Soulstone generation is nice but the it takes him too many turns to bury, appear, and then be able to Interact to complete a scheme. The other choices would be much more efficient for accomplishing some of the schemes.

MVP model (and Why?)Amina- I thought she was kind of suspect initially as she is a lot of stones for a model that doesn't inflict damage and can only make enemy models slow with her melee attack...however, her ability to generate stones in this pool (she was generating me on average two stones per turn and on two turns could have generated more if I had disposable cards) was amazing. Additionally the pushes, shielded, and anti-charge attack aura was indispensable in this game. She probably isn't an auto take but is really good as a support piece. 2nd Place MVP would be the Gunsmiths just because of the Target Practice action which allowed me to remove multiple scheme markers and force him to spend almost double the AP to get Harness the Ley Line.

Forum Name: not on the forum

LeaderMcCabe

Crew List: Lucas McCabe, Luna, Sidir Archibald, Yasunori, Shadow Emissary, Ruffian, Ruffian, Ruffian

Strategy VP Scored1

Scheme 1 & VP ScoredPower Ritual - 1

Scheme 2 & VP ScoredHarness the Ley Line - 1

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently?Deploy differently and use the Ruffian's Chain Gang to speed up Sidir and get him and Yasumori into the center where they could more effectively control the majority of the center and deny enemy schemes.

MVP model (and Why?)McCabe- his maneuverability and ability to help other models with maneuver as well as his ability to hand out staggered and slow with his net gun and blast onto other models to slow/stagger multiple models in a turn is amazing and a significant force multiplier.

3 hours ago, Kirillych said:

And Sonnia Criid should gain immunity too , I suppose? 

No.... she uses burning but her basic mechanics don’t set her on fire....with Reva and Kaeris as already stated by others their abilities, that of their crew, and their markers are going to result in them being on fire quite often. In order to use the tools the designers have given her she needs immunity to burning damage. 

5 hours ago, bedjy said:

Is it too hard to imagine an expensive scheme runner, with a lot of flexibility, movement and some interesting shenanigans to help your crew ? My friend @hemgath has taken it quite often, and I can assure you it always scored him a bunch of VP making it the MVP of most of his games. But maybe that's not enough for you and you also want it to kill models in a stiff breaze also ?

It’s not that I can’t imagine that.... I just see what I think are a lot of other ways to spend the points in a number of lists that I think are a better use. 

If I want scheme runners a Wind Gamin, Blessed, etc seems like great options that also give me points left over for other things as well. If I am going to pay 11 pts I just expect more.... mainly it is the comparison where I don’t see the parity with the other riders for the same cost. 

1 hour ago, bedjy said:

Reactivating a Coryphee duet twice (or thrice) in a game seems quite consistent to me. And it may also reactivate another model or 2.

I just don’t see this stacking up against the Pale Riders 4 x Ram ability that I can start hitting on turn 2 and can guarantee that I am getting AP for almost my entire crew if the rider activates early. 

Getting a charge for Lady J, the Judge, Peacekeeper, and the rest of the entourage even if already engaged and starting this a turn earlier.....sure you get more flexibility out of a full reactivate than just a charge, but I can guarantee way more total AP with the Pale Rider and that is just his 4 x Ram action. 

I think instead of the Meh Rider you are better off just hiring something else (or two somethings) instead. 

1 hour ago, azgadil said:

Metal Golem is not doing enough for ten stones.  

He is missing one or a combination things coming to models his cost; missing an effective bonus bonus, no opportunity for a third "Action" (flurry, reckless, obey etc), stats are low (except for dmg track), no built in heal...  Compare to Fire Golem, Ice Golem and many other non-Arcanist 10SS models.  

 

I am good with the lack of a heal given his armor but I agree completely with the stats, efficiency, and actions. At a minimum he needs Flurry for his cost and a better bonus action that can more effectively capitalize off of scrap. 

I really want to like him but for 10SS just have a lot of trouble seeing his worth with what he brings. I almost would rather go out of keyword and bring in another beater from a different keyword or at least a versatile. Maybe the Emissary is a better buy in either Thunders or Arcanists.....