WWHSD

13 hours ago, KingCrow said:

This is exactly why I was wanting to play these two masters together.  It seems an easy way to spam all the Pyre markers and with Kaeris now able to move the Markers... I imagine it will be easy to always have Burning on models.  I'm just honestly surprised that no one has played them together yet to try and break the two masters synergy. I haven't seen it in the CB or OB... could've missed it though.

I played Kaeris as a hired master with Sandeep a couple of times during the CB. There were more Academic/Elemental models that I wanted to hire than there were Firebugs so I had Sandeep lead. At the time there was no difference between Kaeris leading or just being hired (outside of keyword based hiring). 

They worked well together but it wasn’t anything that seemed overpowered (and at least one of the games was when Pyre markers dealt damage). 

8 hours ago, Caspergad said:

I disagree, performers as a crew are fine, can't see what you expect of a 5 ss minion...a rotten belle has by comparison one health more, but both def and wp 4... disguised and hard to wound... i'd say they're comparable defensively... actually rather think i'd have the showgirl's stats/card, but not buying she has it worse...

In my experience, I have found that Rotten Belles are much harder to remove than Showgirls. Disguised + Hard to Wound with 6 health make it so that  most melee models in the game are unable to remove a Belle in a single activation. Showgirls on the other hand can be removed in a single activation by most models in the game and quite a few models have a damage track that will remove a Showgirl with a single severe. 

7 hours ago, Zebo said:

Distracting Illusion is really great at stat 7. Distracted + Stunned + discard a card is great, but Distracted + Stunned + damage 3 is better. 

I wouldn't nerf this, it's her main attack, and while very good, Stunned only works once, Distracted is only +1 and you should play vs her knowing this. 

At most, I would reduce up to 6, but not more. 

And the Distracted from 3 Distracting Illusion attacks can be removed by any of your nearby enemies spending an action and severe card, if 2 actions are spent you can probably top deck well enough to remove 3 Distracted.

How effective Colette’s activation is is in the hands of her opponent much more than it is with most masters. 

I think I’ve done damage with Distracting Illusion once or or twice ober the course of 5 games with Colette.

14 hours ago, retnab said:

EoP is kind of a sleeper hit IMO. +1 to all opposed duels, offensively and defensively is great (Raspy firing 6 attacks in at Stat 7 for an obvious example)

He’s also nice because he’s a cheap model that you are brining mostly fornhos aura so he usually has actions to spare to concentrate when in range Kandara to generate some more cards.

I got a lot of use out of the Essence of Power with Sandeep. It getting the +1 to all of your attack and defense flips is pretty solid if your going to be keeping your models close together. 

42 minutes ago, thebarbalag said:

The idea that Distracted can be compensated for by Focus or Soul Stones, and somehow that's a bad thing is a little strange. That means you've put Slow on the model. It still gets to have a chance at being effective for one action, or it has to spend a limited resource. Shucks. Having one crew shut the other one down so that almost nothing they do is effective is boring and unfun. Perhaps Distracted shouldn't be their only defense, but take a second to look at any crew that depends on Terrifying for defense when it's faced with models that ignore Terrifying, of which there are many. They fold like paper.

I like the idea of instead of burying, Collette gets a place. Maybe even a decently long range one, maybe even not range limited, just "After resolving an attack against this model, it may discard a card to place into base contact with target friendly scheme marker or Performer, then remove the scheme marker, or target Performer suffers 1 damage."

That’s why I was thinking that allowing her to swap places with a Performer Minion Construct and causing the attack to fail was the way to go. If she pops away then you know where she might go, and after the swap, one of the models that she can swap with is in a spot to be attacked.

1 hour ago, retnab said:

Also, on a somewhat different topic, but has anyone gotten much use out of Colette's False Reality?  I feel like it's both outdone by and trying to compete with Presto-Chango, unless someone's found some good use of it should it be dropped in favor of something different?

Sometimes you want to move an enemy without having a friendly model to swap with it.

They are great at removing destructible terrain and using the assist action on your other models.

20 minutes ago, kaintxu said:

Thank for the replies guys, I will be trying the Acolyte as soon a possible and see how it goes. On the utility side and damage side I'm kind of half there that he is on par to Envy, above in some cases. What worries me are his defenses which seem relatively low any any decent other ranger is going to kill him in 2 shots?

Keep Snow Storm near him if you are worried about that? Or maybe have an Ice Gamin give him some Shielded. 

In a December crew, there's either going to be a bunch of enemy models with slow (which will help his survival), using actions to remove Ice Pillars, or they won't have much of a hand to cheat with because they've been discarding to avoid getting Slow.

In a December crew, the Acolyte is going to end up with a 3/4/5 damage track on its close attack and a 3/4/6 track on it ranged attack a lot of the time as long as you've got a crow that you can pitch for Tool For the Job. They aren't quite as good in a crew where they are going to be the only source of Slow. 

Envy can do something similar, but would need to spend a stone or have a high enough Ram to get his trigger. His trigger removes the condition though, which makes him not quite as good in crews that are passing out negative conditions as he is against crews that pass out positive conditions. If you know you are playing into a leader that hands whose keyword crew ends up with a lot of fast or focus, Envy is a great counter pick. 

7 hours ago, Da Git said:

 

• Immolate become a trigger on Conflagration but limited to only 3 burning damage & reduction), this is similar to Daw being min 5 against Staggered (he doesn't even remove the staggered and it's much easier for him to apply). By removing Immolate as an action frees up a ton of space

The Ignition trigger on Immolate is one of the best ways for Kaeris to get Burning on to her crew and nearby enemies. Any  will give all of the models near Kaeris Burning +2. I'd hate to see it go away.

21 minutes ago, retnab said:

?  I'm still seeing Stat 7 on my card from yesterday

Yeah. I must have misread it. So a 13 is needed to summon a Wind Gamin and a 4SS Gamin. It will still be something that doesn't happen in a lot of games.

2 minutes ago, kaintxu said:

Which 2 huge bugs did he get from closed beta? Can remember now, the last changes I remember at ehis destroying in pulse apart from start of activation. 

Enemy placement no longer stops him from unburying.

He can generate a soulstone, walk, and interact in the same activation. Previously, if he wanted to generate a soulstone he'd only be able to do one or the other.

Just now, kaintxu said:

I don't think he is the best 6SS scheme runner but he is good. The thing is now he can't jump around and interact as you use your bonus action for both going down and up, you you are really only able to do it once in the game if you actually want to interact, so I Think the previous version, without the interpretation problems was better, as you could interact and then go down on the same turn. You just could not come up and interact.

If we could find a way to let him interact before burying that would probably be spot on. Maybe make burying a regular action instead of a bonus action? or making busy drilling optional (may treat interact as bonus rather that treats)

 He's gotten two huge buffs since the final closed beta version (which I thought was already a really good model). 

Making Busy Drilling optional defeats the entire purpose of the miner even having the ability. It's there specifically from allowing him to bounce around the table and being able to Interact without giving your opponent a window in which to respond.

13 minutes ago, BFOmega said:

It just needs changed to attack action most likely, unless they want you to be able to place Ice pillars through it.

Creating Ice Pillars and Healing Friendly models seems to be what you hire them to do. Changing Ice Mirror to only work on Attack Actions would keep either of those from working through the Ice Mirror.

I don't think there's any reason to change the way Ice Mirror works. It allows a couple of tricks with actions that are normally very short range, but nothing that really seems broken.

I think that the drop to Df4 just makes the stuff that was already able to deal with Colette better at doing so and doesn't really affect much else. 

45 minutes ago, Jordon said:

They sometimes are a decent fit on certain Enforcers but Minions are a better fit if you have the choice. For example, I don't hear anyone really talking about putting one of these upgrades on Cojo because the Cerberus is almost always going to be a better fit due to it being a minion. 

I usually put Magical Training on Cojo. The Shielded +1 and the Counterspell on him are nice. 

3 hours ago, matt said:

Hey Everyone, 

Just wanted to poke my head in here. A lot of this thread has boiled down to whether "Unburied" is equal to "not Buried", in the context of The Soulstone Miner, and while that was the intention we are going to be changing the wording to just "At the start of this model's Activation, if it is not Buried..." so as to avoid any confusion without writing exceptions into the rules. 

Wordings like this are why we beta test so that everything is as clear as possible, so thanks for all the feedback!

What about the questions regarding how abilities are queued up that were raised by previous version of the Soulstone Miner? The change makes it not as important for the Soulstone Miner but it is something that would affect how a lot of other interactions work out. The question is around how effects are queued up to be resolved.

Do you hit a particular timing step, determine all of the effects that could be resolved and then resolve those according to the timing rules? It's essential a stack of effects that is created that no other effects get added to as the previous effects change the game state.

Or do you just start resolving effects for a timing step one at time and if the game state changes in a way that would permit other effects that share the same timing, those may be resolved in turn?   

10 hours ago, Slartibartfarst said:

The gamins - I take it, it's intentional that there is such a difference in the gamins? Not sure if I agree on the pricing though (Wind Gamin for 6, Poison/Metal Gamin for 5, Fire/Ice Gamin  for 4). Do people think the Metal Gamin is better than the ones for 4SS or even on par with the Poison? It seems to me that some of the prices for these models could be adjusted slightly. With that being said - I'd like to hear others and their opinion - I would just prefer seeing 5 different good options, rather than having one gamin be the only one in Sandeeps arsenal. 

I think that with the differences to the different Gamins and the ability for Sandeep to summon multiple models, there isn't going to be a straight up best model for him to summon. In general though, I think that some combination of Fire, Wind, and Poison Gamin will typically be what is getting summoned. If Sandeep is in a crew with either Mei Feng or Rasputina then the Metal and Ice Gamin will probably be getting summoned a lot.


Fire Gamin (4ss) - Can move around all of the Pyre Markers that are going to end up in play. They get decently tanky for a 2SS model if they can get burning stacked on themselves. Their projectile attack has a Blast on weak damage. 

Ice Gamin (4SS) - Probably the least attractive summon for Sandeep unless he's a hired master for Rasputina. The more slow is being thrown around the better they get.

Wind Gamin (6SS) - With the recent drop in Sandeep's stat for his summoning ability to 6, a Wind Gamin is going to be the only model that gets summoned unless you use the Red Joker to summon. It will take a 13 to summon a Wind Gamin with a second model so it will probably keep them from being a default model to summon.  It's a good scheme runner and it's pushes are nice if you have the  to get them. 

Metal Gamin (5SS) - They are a better summon in crews that hire some constructs or that need scrap. Their ability to drop scrap at the end of their activation makes them really good summons for Dig Their Graves and make getting 3 scheme markers next to 3 scrap or corpse markers trivial. They can get up to a 3/4/5 damage track if it is giving itself shielded (with it's tactical action or Kudra's mantra) but you'd need to use Sandeep or Banasuva's obey-like action to really make it work. 

Poison Gamin (5SS) - Probably Sandeep's best summoning choice if you are just looking for a reasonably durable model with a decent attack. Paired with Kudra they can be kind of nasty. They did take a huge hit with Rafkin no longer being hireable by Sandeep. They also give the most effect when Sandeep uses his bonus action to kill a friendly model, resulting in a 3 damage explosion that give Posion +1 to anything it damages. 

 

5 hours ago, kaintxu said:

I want to love Diesel engine, but I find and issue with it on the miner. You want him to be doing schemes and such and many times It won’t be near the action so concealment and charge bonus will be insignificant. Is it worth paying 2SS on a E point model for that extra move?

I would often have the Soulstone Miner focus and bury turn one. Turn two, it would unbury 6 inches from an enemy, charge it and attack, and then make a focused attack. Diesel Engine would give me two attacks that were getting a on the damage flip. He was usually going after a scheme runner or a squishier backfield support model.

The concealment aura affects the Soulstone Miner. This makes him harder to hit with ranged attacks while he's scheme running.

The beginning of turn movement is nice for the extra distance, but the big reason that you want it is that it allows the Miner to get out of engagement without needing to use the Disengage action. That leaves him still able to Interact in turns that he starts his activation engaged.

 

7 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

Sparks is evasive now, so he doesnt get damaged by his own blasts from Packed with Explosives. And you can always explosify your own model and rush it into the enemies, so that even if you dont get blasts it damages them when they kill it. 

Finally, the scrap markers only count as pit traps for the purposes of friendly abilities, and since foundry has no abilities that use pit markers it doesnt really change anything

 

The Soulstone Miner has a trigger that uses them so an Arcanist Foundry crew may get some use out of the ability.

24 minutes ago, Rathaxz said:

True, I did not even thing about that. That seems a little extreme to have rasputina and the silent ones dropping scheme markers 8 inches away

I think you’d still drop scheme markers in base contact with with model takeing the action. It seems like it would work well in Stuff like Deliver A Message, Turf War, or the strategy whose name I can’t seem to remember that has you interact with the markers that do damage and get moved.

10 hours ago, Jordon said:

I like the change to make pyre markers more effective. However I feel like your only getting half the benefit of injured when it's being applied during a models activation. Injured is much more powerful when your whole crew can make use of the (-) modifier during attack actions. So while it's better, it's still not great.

I actually think it's that effect with Injured that made adding it to Pyre Markers possible. If Injured was still until the end of the turn, I think it would be too powerful. The way it is now, I think it will serve as a good defense against multi-attack models.   

I really like the look of Ramos's new summoning. It would be kind of cool to see the Swarm get the ability to split apart.