Sagrit

...but I just keep getting this feeling that Ivan is Dreamer (pre-nerf) lite...

But pre-nerf Dreamer is one of the strongest crews in M3E so it's kinda complement  Sorry for the offtop

About the main message in topic - i totaly share your feeling. I had 7 games with Ivan and won only 3 yet. But i see my own mistakes, so i see that it's not about Master or Keyword, but about playstile. Biggest mistakes in every game - underestimate treat range and/or damage potential of enemy crew. To be simple - i lost key models pretty early in those games. Ivan was placed outside 2" from Shadow markers and/or Emisarry e.tc. 

As for hires i always take this core:

• Gibson DeWalt - for extra Shadow markers, extra Distracted and Tools for the Job
• Archivist - for Ill Omens, for min 3 10" attack and for 4" Leap
• Winston Finnigan - for Arcane Reservoir, Fortune's Favor card cycle and awesome Bonus action

I took Eva few times but hadn't success with her. I took her for placing Schemes far away and it worked, but just feels not right... Every Activation was something like this - Secret Passage+Secret Passage or Concentrate+Secret Passage or Secret Passage+Interact. Again, it worked sometimes, but i just want more...

I took Corvis Rook and always had some fun with him. He always was a pressure source for opponent and he attract some attention an AP's. So it's kinda "tank" if you would ask me.

Hes slot sometimes is taken by Intrepid Emissary because he's super good in protection - Protected and Shielded aura are awesome. 6" push is a nice bonus for the first turn.

I tryed Tannenbaum but hadn't succes with him. He was struggling because of lot of Concealment around. But he's Inked Fingers and card cycle are nice. Austera and Twigge looks nice on paper, but hadn't did much in my games.

I feel some potential in both Ngaatoro, but still didnt figured it out how to properly use them. I also believe in Operatives, they were super good for me in Syndicate, but not in DUA/Umbra yet (i hope).

Some situational picks for specific Schemes:

• Botanist have nice synegy with Shadow markers
• Vernon & Welles is good for protections against WP based attacks and also pretty mobile

But again - i lost 4 and only won 3. So i'm not the person whoes advice should be taken seriously  Would be nice to hear some other options.

Have to skip this one due to vacations. Will definitely continue on June. Good luck everyone, habe a nice tourney!

Harata looks interesting. Never tryed him yet, but will do one day. Eva is very situational... Secret Passage is nice, but i had few games when she actually did only that - Secret Passage, drop Marker, end of activation. I could have had the Marker on the same place with other options anyway. Hiring Daeva is something i don't like and 13 stones are too much, that what i think. Drop Daeva and hire Archivist or Finnigan. You will still get Daeva during the game.

Question about Set up the Kill ability of Vatagi Huntsman. It's Once per Turn, so i assume even if opponent will discard a card, he can "safely" suffers damage from Pit Trap later in Turn, it won't trigger Set up the Kill anymore. 

Amount of Vatagi Huntsman in the crew doesn't matter? If i have 2-3 Huntsmans, it's still only one opportunity for free shot per Turn, right?

Im not really sure that it works this way in Malifaux. I mean it definitely works, but for a person, not for a master (or crew). Pandora would like to force in the middle of enemy crew turn one. Jack Daw want to engage as soon as possible, give Tormented upgrade turn one and win initiative with a high card turn two. And you want Fast source for Montresor for sure. In the meantime Ulix feels fine turtling near deployment. I'm not saying that it should be 100% of time that way, but that's what i usually saw and it looks like you saw completely opposite ways of playing those masters So it's really personal   

And if you are looking for a straight advice - just get Seamus, you will enjoy this jumpy bustartd 😄 

@Maniacal_cackle comment is detailed and helpful, I'm agree with him. But i wanna give you advice that helps me a lot. It might sound a little bit weird, but works for me, so I always recommend it to all beginners:

Get a Master you like and play it at least 10-15 games no matter the pool. Play all Strat's, pick as many different Schemes as you can. Don't change until you hit at least 10 games even though you think that he don't perform well in certain Scheme pools. Than pick another Master and do it again. 

I mean i don't know your game experience, but i would say, if you have played around 15 games with Reva in different Scheme pools you would definitely knew where you want to get her and where not. If after that you would play 15 games with Von Schtook - you would see where he performs better than Reva. When you have around 30 games in your background you will 100% know what exactly you wanna try next by yourself.

1 hour ago, Adran said:

When the world opens up again and I can get out and face other people I might see something that shows why I'm wrong, but this thread doesn't show it to me at the moment

With all my respect, Adran, i'm agree with all you mentioned except of this. This topic actually shows the problem  Karnage is right - Vassal open borders for all of us, so we can see whats going on outside our homeland meta. Lot of strong/average/noobie players all around the world can play with each other, with different playstyles, on different tables and with different scheme pools. And what we currently see, that ppl around the world frustrated by Cadmus. Some of them found summoning to be too strong, others don't really care about summoning, but feels upset about first/last activation control, others raging about tokens can't be removed e.t.c. The problem is not in some specific part of mechanics, but in combination of them in one crew.

I'm sorry, i don't know why you can't watch videos, but maybe we can fix it somehow? I mean it's 2021 now, it shouldn't be a big deal to watch video on YouTube... Is there some region restrictions? Maybe we can upload it to other source? Because it's actually shows  that Plaag is not doing any secret magic tricks, he's just playing as usual, making mistakes, having bad cards and so on. But it doesn't really affects the result - ppl keep loosing. So this is what most of us found to be a problem - it's just too much of everything in this crew, it forgives your mistakes, it allows you to do simple things with devastating effect for opponent. 

9 hours ago, Whut said:

Like... Riders are 11 Cost and Model 9 won't ever be as effective as they are - though granted that may be an unfair comparison across factions, Model 9 serves more of a Tank role, and Riders are some of the best models in the game.

It's a personal experience ofcourse, but i see Model 9 as extremely efficient model and would hire it for 11 Stones without a doubt. It have lot of utility. It's easy to ping lot of 1 dmg which is effective against Armor, HtK etc. Mobility is pretty impressive, it's not a big deal to get almost anywhere on the map with Avalanche placement and 5" push on Bonus. In my games he kills, place markers, remove markers, engage etc and score VP all the time, or deny scoring VP

4 hours ago, katadder said:

Let's not forget that these people are not playing their best as they have a point to prove about cadmus.

Havent watched the dreamer game but for best dreamer player that just sounds bad play.

Watched nekima game and for best nekima player was definitely bad play (should have removed both nests turn 1, turn 2 throwing corpses at 1 wound model instead of blood for blood, etc).

So I don't think these videos prove anything tbh other than what plaag wants them to prove.

It's not about videos really  If you think that you can do better - just play it, because Plaag is ready for a game. It's not about "beating everyone" it's just about showing that Cadmus has some serious issues regardless of opponent's master or crew. You know the list pretty much, you can see how the game will go (at least start) - you are absolutely free to create a counter-pick and try it out.

So far we just see that Cadmus is pretty broken. If we would see a good answer - that would be great for comunity, why not.

When a model takes a Walk action it moves, it's not moved by itself. When a model is affected by Lure - it's moved by model with Lure. And model with Lure moves the target  

I mean we can continue that for a long time, really, but I'm sure you got my point:

• Move yourself with you own will - "move"
• Forced to move by others - "be moved"

I'm not saying that everyone have to agree though. Would love to see some arguments since it's only one we have before next FAQ (I hope)

Lure moves the target, so Lure wording is correct. When your model is affected by enemy Lure - it would be moved  If ability says that it can't be moved - Lure won't work.

If your model takes Walk action during it's activation - it moves. If ability says it can't be moved, i see no reason why it can't move itself. Correct wording to prevent it, as i see it, would be "can't move" which is more general. So for Territorial: "...and it cannot move or be Buried". But we have what we have  

Besides that' there are 2 more examples about "be moved" and in both cases it's about being affected by other models effects:

• Staggered: ...and cannot be moved by effects of other friendly models.
• Planted Roots: This model cannot be moved by enemy effects..

So again, it makes me think that there is difference between "move" and "be moved". And you are correct, it's gramatically correct as well  

3 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Edit: So I guess the argument is whether there is a difference between "it cannot be moved" and (a theoretical) "it cannot move or be moved" 

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. I explain my point of view:

"Be moved" means being an object of other's action that can move. Other way would be "cannot move" which would mean that can move at all. We have examples of wording, when model move herself:

• Trample: This model can move through other models.
• Towering Figure: ... and can move through other models.
• Incorporeal / Ghost of Malifaux: This model can move through other models and vice versa.
• e.t.c.

But in this case it's specified "be moved"

P.S. Found a fun example  

On 2/14/2021 at 11:46 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

Have you had trouble with the opponent Obeying Malisaurus to Whip his tail into Territorial and have a 10SS model just sit there? Obey (and similar effects) are somewhat common and always useful and it seems like a huge weakness and a pretty easy counterpick to make.

I don't think it's much of a trouble since Territorial say : ... it cannot be moved or Buried.

Which means, thatyou can't move him with different puch/move effects of other models, but Malisaurus still can walk and charge during his own activation.

I'm planning to try Explorers on February tournament, but if i would go Ressers, i would say Kirai don't really care about those limits. OOK is usualy just Manos or Rider.

How often your Hopeful Prospect turns into Apex Minion? I played just 3 games with Apex but so far the most useful things he did was condition removal and card cycle. Hes Good Show! aura is good for sure, but it still limits my positioning. Blissful Ignorance might be a trap, so usualy i'm forced to activate Prospect early to discard some low cards.

So whats your experience with this model in Apex keyword?

To be honest i don't feel like McMourning need anything OOK, except of some Versatile models ofcourse - Dead Rider, sometimes Emissary.

Manos is a toolkit, so maybe it worth it. 

8 hours ago, Trample said:

During the game he would generally use x marks the spot to give injured. Next charge and ping for 1 with blade rush. Then use stat 7 knife attack to throw a knife at the injured guy with adversary, stoning for the mask if I needed it. Free attack on a plus. Repeat. You have a great chance of hitting 4 times and likely seeing some flat or plus flips on damage depending on how you're using focus and predatory instinct. He was regularly doing 8-10 damage a turn that way. That stat 7 after you've just given injured usually means you're ~ +3 to the duel before flipping. He just doesn't miss much.  

You can't do it. Model 9 can take a Charge from engage, but you are still limited to one Charge per Activation. So it could be X Marks the Spot, Charge with Blade Rush + Throw Knife + free attack from trigger if you managed to do Severe. Now you have 1 AP left and you are engaged, so it's just a Twirling Blade attack. Which is not bad at all

On 12/12/2020 at 8:23 PM, Whut said:

Cooper's Core Crew IMO is

Cooper
Runaways x3
Malisaurus Rex
Artemis
Ullr
Hopeful Prospect
Crypsis Corps

This gives you 17 stones to work with

 

Why do you consider Artemis as part of the core? It looks like an anti-scheming model for me, which is situational.

OK, it's weird (wyrd) for me but Plaag is correct about that. At least for International Vassal Series. FAQ says:

Can a rider’s fate tokens be spent on any duel?

• Yes, Chasing Fate states that tokens may be discarded “when declaring triggers,” which occurs in Step E of all duels (See Duels on Page 10 of the Digital Rulebook). Chasing Fate does not require a trigger be declared.

I think you can't, because you have to actually have a trigger. Declaring means the process, so it happens simultaniously - you declare the specific trigger and spend tokens for it. Not like you spend tokens and than say "I declare trigger - none!" 😄

10 hours ago, Plaag said:

u still can spend them when she obeys u

But how? Rider can spend tokens only when declaring triggers, Obey works against Wp and Rider have only Df trigger. What am i missing?

Oh i see, once per model per Activation... Omg that's strong

On 12/4/2020 at 5:19 AM, Whut said:

Nexus activates.

1. Citizens of Malifaux from Berserker - summon 3 EAE, removing scheme and 2 Webs(Total 2)
   1. One of these should be from a Web Marker behind the Berserker such that the resulting EAE is within 4" of Nexus for Siphon Power
2. Exoskeleton from EAE, targeting Meredith. Draw a card. (Total possibly +1 if it's close enough but I won't count it)
3. Exoskeleton from Meredith, targeting Berserker. Berserker doesn't move. Shed Skin to clear conditions. Drop Web (Total 3)
4. Last AP free to fix mistakes or Focus

On first pages of this topic i saw several comments about Nexus take her actions from other models multiple times. But how is it possible if Omnipresent Influence is onece per Activation? Am i missing something and there is a way to ignore it?

On 11/29/2020 at 12:20 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Molly herself can't score the scheme as easily, but she denies it easily and her keyword schemes it as well.

I would say that she's pretty flexible with Draw Out trigger. It can target both friendly and enemy models, so it's not a big deal to place a marker almost anywhere. The most obvious problem for Spread Them Out is to place enemy models in proper position ((