whodares

24 minutes ago, skoatz said:

Yin can also make enemy models have a on WP duels.  Lynch benefits from that as could other models in your crew.  And if that model tries to attack Yin or Huggy, the model will have a much harder time passing the terrifying duel.  I feel like you're underestimating Yin a tad.

I knew I was forgetting something. Makes it a lot easier for Huggy to get his Brilliance and Terrifying off and for Lynch to also get the Brilliance on a model and do 2 damage. Totally forget they had Ca targetting instead of Df!

26 minutes ago, skoatz said:

If you can keep Tengu hidden to do their scheme running, then Tengu are fine.  But they typically die faster than the Shadow Effigy.  Plus the Shadow Effigy can give your leader a condition that you can use to make an attacking model attack at a .  It doesn't cost any cards either.  I feel like they tend to fill different roles.

A big problem I have is that I might have too many models close to eachother. I'll be having Lynch, Yu and Huggy in relative proximity to give fast and spread out the Brilliance a bit. Getting another model (Effigy) next to that, means I'll barely have side pressure as he can't tarpit that well and only does 1 damage. A Tengu on the other hand is extremely slippery, does decent damage imo for a 4ss scheme model and can hand out regeneration. Lynch shouldn't be getting that actively targetted either way, so I can't really see the value of Effigy with him. Well, unless you play frontline Lynch, but I don'ty really see that happening when you have Sensei Yu to push single enemy models within his Final Debt range either way.

38 minutes ago, skoatz said:

It's a decent 1/2/3 heal needing an 8 I believe.  I don't have the card on me.  I don't always use the monk, but when I feel like I need condition removal and healing then I take it.

Thanks for the information. I can't really find a space for a monk though, as I usually take Chiaki if I need heal and condition removal. On the other hand, he costs less stones while not losing any efficiency. I'm probably not going to get the monk, but I might proxy him to see how it works out.

I'm learning so much about Lynch and crew synergies today, you guysmade me a happy man

18 hours ago, Tokapondora said:

snip

Thanks for the feedback. You've given me some great suggestions. I do have my doubts, so I hope you can clear them up.

I like Yin, but I'm not sure if I like him with Lynch. He's a great tarpit model that can do damage while tarpitting, but I feel he's not really fitting into the crew that I'm thinking of. I feel like a Depleted could do thesame job as Yin while handing out Brilliance and only costing 4ss. The only thing Yin has going for him imo are the Viscera and the "no walk/charge" trigger. Am I not seeing any value? Am I unerestimating Yin or overestimating Depleted?

Shadow Effigy seems useless to me and I feel much better getting a Tengu than the Effigy. Effigy has Accomplice and is rather sturdy with HtK and Armor +1, but Tengu is just so slippery and can heal himself and other models on activation. I feel they have similar roles with the scheme marker stuff, so what am I missing?

I don't have the new upgrades, but I read on the forums that it gives the monks a heal flip. That seems nice, but I can't really say anything further as I have no idea what the TN is, howmuch they heal, ... The downsides of not having the card. Even then I feel like they might be overkill in a crew that already has Yu as he's 12ss on an almost purely supportive model.

I've decided to venture a bit into Lynch as he seems like a lot of fun with the Ace discard shenannigans he can pull. After my unsuccessful adventure with Shenlong (a bit too much to keep track of for me) and my decent usage of Yan Lo (still figuring out why I suck so much at placing my Izamu and Soul Porter), how hard would you rate Lynch? I'm not looking at tournament level, but more at a friendly play level.

Thanks to this thread, I've gotten a few idea's on what I should get. I'm unfortunately a bit on a budget, so getting the Emissary will be a stretch unless you have a very, very convincing argument for him. Right now I have the following crew:

• Shenlong box
• Yan Lo box
• Izamu
• Lone Swordsman
• Tengu (3x)
• Katanaka Sniper (3x thx shenlong box)
• Toshiro
• Punk Zombie (3x)
• Komainu (2x)

I'm thinking of getting the Lynch box with Beckoners, TT Brothers and Depleted. The Emissary will be cut for budgettary reasons and the fact that I have Sensei Yu, but you can always try to convince me. I've seen a couple of pro-contra here for either, but I'm not really sure as to how they differ so much in role. Some clarification here would also be great.

Then for Lynch's upgrades, I find it hard to decide between The Rising Sun and Endless Hunger. I'm feeling a bit better for Endless Hunger as that extra Ca is one hell of a lot of possible damage from Huggy. I'll probably take Woke Up With A Hand by default as well and the Wanna See A Trick (52 Pickup) seems strong as well and I'll probably baseline run those 3 upgrades on him. Is this good or not? Convince me!

My last question is regarding Huggy's upgrade Addict. I've barely seen it mentioned. Is this because you barely run any Darkened with Lynch and Huggy himself doesn't benefit from it?

I made a general skeleton that I'll use. You can have some insight in what I'm planning to do and how I'm planning to run Lynch. Feel free to comment on it.

• Lynch (Woke up with a hand, Wanna see a trick, Endless Hunger / The Risiing sun)
• Huggy (Recalled Training if I take Endless Hunger, else no upgrade)
• Sensei Yu (Wandering River Style)
• Illuminated
• Beckoner
• Katanaka Sniper (focus ranged for some area denying)
• TT Brother (schemes and tarpit, ace dropping for defensive is just evil)
• Depleted (tarpitting and handing out brilliance)

Thanks for reading this far and I hope I can learn a lot from your feedback!

12 hours ago, OneLittleThunder said:

Yep, the only advantage to Guard the Soul is the range (though I suppose the fact that it happens during an opponent's activation might occasionally be relevant). 

As for the scrap marker, yes, it's just because he's a Construct. See pp. 56-57 of the little rule book. Only Living or Undead models drop Corpse markers; Constructs drop Scrap markers. If a model is eligible to drop either (like a Rail Worker, who is a Living Construct), the controller decides which one it drops when killed.

Rip my reading skills. I completely missed that part in the rules. Thanks for giving me the pages as well.

Gonna order my crew pretty soon and test it out against my other crew. I really hope I like Yan Lo better than Shenlong. I love Shenlong aesthetics, but he's just not my playstyle as I play him like too much of a wimp

I was looking at Komainu and I'm not sure if I understand the "Guard the Soul" action correctly. 

(1) Guard the Soul: This model gains the following Condition until it takes another Action: "Spiritual Guardian: After an enemy model in a6 resolves a Ca Action, this model may immediately take a (1) Ml Attack Action against the model, ignoring range and LoS."

Does this mean that I can only get 1 attack action off and the condition then disappears?I don't really see the use for it besides when you're standing behind a wall or something and want to force the opponent to make a move or supper Komainu superpower. As he's a spirit, I feel like understanding this ability would help a lot with the Yomi power of Yan Lo.

More about Komainu: how do I know why he drops a scrap marker? Is it because they are a construct? Do they drop both a corpse and scrap marker or only a scrap marker?

Sure hope I can get a match soon, I'm feeling so pumped to try out Yan Lo now

No idea if it runs on Mac. It runs on my Windows 10, but I don't like the feeling of it. I prefer to really see the terrain as opposed to the flat view that Vassal gives.

2 hours ago, OneLittleThunder said:

Totally understood. So with that, the choice of Komainu and 2 Punks vs. Komainu, 1 Punk and the Emissary vs. 2 Punks and a Sniper will always come down to "it depends."

I think you're confusing me with @SaintScythus(not a problem, since we all look alike on the internet anyway).  

I think you will find that Chi generation is a little faster than you expect, especially when Yan Lo gets into the middle of things; the 8" Harvest Chi bubble gives Chi when either side kills an enemy model in almost a quarter of the board, so it can add up quickly. 

That said, I don't focus on Hunpo Assault as much as Scythus does; it gives you an 8" place (which Lightning Dance can more or less do anyway, since you want to be in a cloud of enemy models) and a handful of melee attacks (unlikely to be more than 2 in most cases) for 2 AP. It may save you 1 AP a turn if that's (teleport and attack) is what you wanted to do anyway, but I don't feel like it's usually worth the 3 Chi and spending a turn's 0 action (which could be another upgrade or a crucial heal). I honestly think the best use for it is if you need to do an 8" teleport when there's not an enemy nearby (for a last-turn Entourage, maybe). Other than that, I'd rather keep the 3 Chi and the flexibility...but as always, that's just me. You'll find what works for you - don't be afraid to experiment.

For what it's worth, my upgrade cycle usually looks something like this:

• Turn 1: Discard a card and get Ash Ascendant.
• Turn 2: Discard a card and wound something (or have something nearby die), then get Spirit Ascendant. Yan Lo is now a tanking machine.
• Later turns: Use Chi for casting attacks and heals. If the situation warrants it, pick up Bone Ascendant but don't feel obligated.

I know you've heard the Schemes and Stones episode on Yan Lo (excellent choice) - you might find the Before We Begin episode on him useful as a different perspective. But - and I can't stress this enough, because I make the same mistakes - don't worry too much about your list being "right" or optimized or ideal, just experiment and find your path.  

 

Oops, sorry for confusing you guys. I guess I was a bit fast there

I'm going to eventually try out several scenario's depending on the upgrades I take.

FtS, Misdirection and Reliquary VS Misdirection, Reliquary and Brutal VS Misdirection, Brutal and FtS. We'll see what I like most and what works best.

Now my main problem becomes finding people to play against

13 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

There are three 13 value suited cards that can do it if you use a soulstone if I am not mistaken? I have seen hilarious games with 3-4 summoned teddies the first two turns. It seemed worth the investment in Tannen to me as an observer, especially since he is a very nice model just based on his other abilities. Don't forget to add stitched or a model with arcane reservoir for additional card draw to better the odds a little. Not sure if dreamer has enough upgrade slots for wings of darkness but the + to draw ability of that upgrade is usually worth the cost even if you don't care about the flying part.

This is incorrect. The card used has to have the mask according to Tannen's effect. Adding it via a soulstone doesn't change your card, it just adds it extra to your duel total. That way some models with a built-in trigger can get 3 times thesame suit.

I'm of thesame mindset that fixed lists aren't good, but I'm a new player with limited models. Looking for optimized generalist lists is currently the way to go for me. that said, I'm always buying an extra model just to keep the options open in case the strategy/schemes don't favor my "main" lineup.

My point for the Chi generation was more for the list you provided, which only has Yan Lo. Taking Soul Porter does indeed do quite a lot and the first 2 turns you can usually discard a card for the Chi generation without sacrificing too much.

You mention having the other 2 upgrades, but where is all that Chi coming from? 1 card is worth 1 Chi, a severe hit is worth 1 Chi, getting a kill is worth 1 Chi, Soul Porter can transfer Chi, but this all requires tremendous setup. Are you only going in for Hunpo Assualt from Turn 4 or am I missing special tricks here? I know about the trick of killing a Komainu and getting 3 Chi on that 1 turn, but that is risky to do in most scenario's.

Getting enough Chi to get all 3 upgrades in a reasonable amount of time seems hard to me. Perhaps this is because I haven't played with him yet?

47 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

Keep in mind that Komaimu do make decent scheme runners with Yan Lo as they are also spirits for the purposes of Fury of the Yomi. I think that your best option is probably number 1 but two punk Zombies is pretty overkill with Izamu also on board. In general I would never go below 5 cache with Yan Lo. 

If you take the Emissary you can build a more elite list of specialists. As you are going to be building up Yan Lo for Hunpo Assaulting I usually focus on upgrading and getting my pieces into position early turns. This list is also fairly versatile for accomplishing most Strategies and Schemes. In general Enforces are a lot more strong in GG2016.

I do think the Emissary kind of forces you to make weird list choices as you want to bring as many models with upgrades as possible, but he can't push and make Yan Lo fast as that's what you really want. For this reason more than anything you will want to be building Yan Lo to Hunpo Assault so that he can place, do some damage and go defensive or just be a very hard to kill tarpit.

 

My Yan Lo Emissary list looks like the following:

Yan Lo - 6 Cache Misdirection, Brutal Khakkhara

Shadow Emissary - Ancestral Conflux

Lust - Recalled Training +Provides Draw and can deal heavy damage on a good opportunity

The Lone Swordsman - RT +Versatile scalpel or scheme runner

Freikorps Librarian - RT +Can heal Yan Lo and adds some CA with Blasts

Shadow Effigy +Early game Chi punching bag, accomplishes schemes with Tengu later. Into Shadow excellent on Yan Lo

Tengu +Good cheap scheme runner, can also provide Regeneration

 

Completely looked over the fact that Komainu are also Spirits. It would indeed make them good for scheme running IF I manage to use them properly (which is a man-sized IF). I might just go for a combination with Tengu and Punk Zombie, but it's a bit of a toss-up on what the schemes and strat give me.

You mention building Yan Lo mainly for Hunpo Assault, but your list barely has any way to generate Chi. From what I can see, you can only get Chi from Yan Lo and killing stuff/ getting stuff killed. Considering that you also don't take Fortify the Spirit, how are you getting the Chi and keeping him alive? It just seems to me that Misdirection alone is not enough to keep him alive if you go in for the Hunpo Assault.

What I've gathered is that The Lone Swordsman works fine when split up as he can slice a model by himself. I'm gonna try and scrap him from my list though. You've convinced me for toshiro.

I'm currently looking at something like this:

• Yan Lo with Misdirection, Fortify the Spirit and Reliquary
• Soul Porter
• Toshiro with Command the Graves
• Izamu with Recalled Training
• Komainu

This leaves me with another 17 potential for models.

What would you see as a better scenario:

1. 2x Punk Zombie and finish on 7 SoulStone cache
2. 1X Punk Zombie and 1 Emissary to finish with 4 SoulStone cache
3. Dump Komainu, get 2x Punk Zombie and 1X katanaka Sniper to end on 4 SoulStone cache
4. Something else

The above scenario's have no scheme runners for me, so that's a weakness. On the other hand I can split my forces in 2 - Toshiro and Zombies on 1 side of the map and the rest on the other side of the map, but that wouldn't be all too effective. I'm just not really conviced of the Tengu, but that's probably because I haven't played with them. Just looking at their stats and having no defense, I feel like they could get taken out in 1 turn by too many models.

As for the Brutal melee upgrade, when would you take it? I can't really find any good use for it as I'm already taking Misdirection, Fortify the Spirit and Reliquary. WHich one would you drop for brutal and why?

Well, this generated a faster response than expected. Thanks for the replies so far.

I have already looked at several threads here on the forum, but they didn't quite give me the information I needed, hence why I made this thread. I don't like hijacking other people's threads.

I'm kind of sad that Sensei Yu isn't mentioned by anyone, yet the Emissary IS mentioned. Is there any point where you would take Yu over the Emissary or is that just personal preference. The thread that @SaintScythus linked has both pro and contra, yet only 1 person in the entire thread mentioned Yu over the Emissary. I'm personally not really that fond of the Emissary, so what exactly am I missing on him that makes him so awesome?

@OneLittleThunder mentioned offensive overkill by having both Izamu and Swordsman, but isn't that really a good thing about it? Lightning Dance a model into those 2 and makde sure that model dies.

I'm currently using the High River Monks as scheme runners in my Shenlong crew and they are doing rather well. I manage to position them well enough that they can always charge the enemy and get their 3 attacks off before they die. This usually turns into a 1 for 1 trade of models, but now the opponent also is without a scheme runner and Shenlong has less worries about that.

@Eclipse Thank you for the wall of text. It's well-written and really comprehensive of strengths and weaknesses. My problem right now is that I want to take too many strong models and am ignoring weaker, yet necessary models.

If I understand everything correctly, The Lone Swordsman is not really a good fit for Yan Lo as I already have Izamu and I can put these Stones to better use.

Yan himself can become a beast later if you take the Brutal Khakkhara upgrade on him, but I feel like there's barely any room for it.

The way I'm picturing Yan right now is with Reliquary, Fortify the Spirit and Misdirection for support and not dying instantly if he gets focussed early. Having 2 defensive triggers on 2 different sets of cards (Tomes and Masks iirc) makes it easier to get out of a defense without having to cheat.

I'm looking at playing Yan defensively for the first 1 or 2 turns and then just Lightning Dancing my way to victory. Defensively for the first 2 turns to build up the required Chi and then just jumping into as many models as possible to get as many models tied up in engagement with him as possible. I would think having Impossible to Wound, Incorporeal, Fortify the Spirit AND Misdirection makes it extremely hard to kill him in a single turn when I'm engaged to something like 3 enemy models.

What I have gathered so far is that good buys would be Komainu, Izamu and Toshiro as the Soul Porter and Ashigaru are already in the Yan Lo box.

As the title sais, i'm looking at Yan Lo to become my second master. I currently have Shenlong with The Lone Swordsman and a couple of Katanaka Snipers.

I was mainly looking at getting a bit more of a killy crew and started checking out Izamu. Naturally I ended up with Yan Lo.

But if you want a killy crew, just grab Misaka !?!

I will probably get Misaki eventually, but I prefer to have some form of unique mechanic. With Yan Lo, you have his Lightning Dance. With Shenlong there are his styles. Misaki is just "get extra attacks and follow your target", which doesn't really feel unique to me.

While checking it out, I started making a list of what I would use for Yan Lo.

The list I have right now is as follows:

• Yan Lo obviously
• The Lone Swordsman
• Izamu
• Soul Porter

And I still have plenty of SoulStones left for other models.

My main goal will be to lightning dance models into Izamu and Swordsman so they can finish the job.

What models would you advise and why?

I have seen a lot of references to Toshiro, but don't see how he could work well in my list. Having 3 models take about 30 stones is not really smart.

Komainu seems pretty nice with the slow they can dish out as well.

Punk zombies are also mentioned, but I think I'd prefer to take High River Monks if I want to kill stuff solo.

I have heard the Schemes and Stones podcast about him, which gave some great insight in both Yan Lo and models. That's basicly were I got my references from.

So again, which models do you suggest with Yan Lo and why?

Alright, I found the Generalist Upgrade Deck, so I guess I have all the cards I need. Thanks for the help there.

Any comments on the army I'm making to start with? I've seen several iterations of it passing by, so I'm guessing it's good enough right now.

As the title sais, I'm a new player. A friend of mine showed me the game and got me interested.

I decided on going the eastern theme of the 10 Thunders and I like the way Shenlong looks.

Our play will be balanced around 50SS.

I drafted the following crew for myself:

Shenlong

• Misdirection
• Recalled Training
• Wandering River Style

Sensei Yu

• Promising Disciple

The Lone Swordsman

• Recalled Training

Katanaka Sniper

Monk of High River x2

Peasant

I would swap out the second High River Monk with a Sniper whenever I have a good map for them.

Now I'm a bit stuck on what I would all need to buy. My friend only has the Lady Justice box and that's it.

What I think I need:

1. Shenlong Box
2. Katanaka Sniper duo box
3. The Lone Swordsman box
4. Fate Deck

However, now I don't know where I can get Misdirection and Recalled Training.

I looked around on the internet a bit, but I can't find a box that contains both of these.

Any help on that?

Comments on the crew are welcome as well.

I was thinking of eventually getting an Izamu, but I have no idea on who to switch out of him.