Kharnage

Question, if a model gains its second grow token by taking the grim feast action, is the grim feast action interrupted by growth? Does it gain it immediately, and then heal? Or does it finish the action, and then grow? Or, worst case, does it eat, get interrupted, and by virtue of no longer being "this model" to heal 1/2/4, not heal at all?

Simple question. A model charges Perdita, closing to within her gunfighter range. Does she get a free attack or not? She has to use the close icon instead of the gun icon for her attack, and finger on the trigger specifies a projectile action. Gunfighter however, does not specify that it loses the projectile icon, but that it gains the close icon, but that could also theoretically mean gunfighter is useless because then I still can't use projectile action in a melee, so that can't be right.

Thoughts?

7 minutes ago, solkan said:

No one is going to tell you that an effect that needs to be errata'd doesn't need to be errata'd

But they might tell me it doesn't work for some reason that I missed. I'm being thorough. Despite my best efforts, I am fallible. Additionally, I thought two soulstone cache users in Arcanists getting a soulstone from a single death would get changed after I reported it and nothing changed, so it could be "working as intended". Having a discussion is the best way to ascertain all that. So, here I am. 

So no, really, that is currently how that works, right? Especially with the double-last-breath thing? Can anyone prove me wrong? Please prove me wrong

12 minutes ago, SerZaka said:

Ama is the only Obey in TT so probably no one tried something like that ever. 

Hungering Darkness also.

And RAW needs to be RAI, or it will be used RAW. Tournaments bring out the worst in men's souls. 

So, food for thought.
"Last Breath 6" - - - Enemy non-Minion only. Until the end of this model's Activation, this model's Actions receive a + to their duels and damage flips against the target. Then, Push this model 5" toward the target and take a y Action targeting it. At the end of this model's Activation, if the target is not in play, add a Soulstone to this Crew's Soulstone Pool. Otherwise, this model suffers 4 irreducible damage."
The ever ambiguous "Until the end of this model's Activation", I'm clarifying something.
Let's say Ama No Zako, Huggie, or whatever other obeys TT have, makes The Lone Swordsman take this action. Does this not mean that he will get his free push and buffed attack, and then the Last Breath buff until such time as he decides to take his own turn? 
Also, while we're at it, what prevents me from taking this action twice against the same model? Auras don't stack, but abilities and actions do, like Latch On and the like, right? Why not go for gold and get *two* soulstones and two instances of positive flips to hit and damage? Sure, he might instantly die (minus HtK) if he fails, but I'd take the risk, yeah?

So, the Miasma of Boils and Flies tactical action, assuming I have the right card in hand, A terracotta warrior can just gain a flicker token without a care in the world since they don't have From Beyond, and move on with their aura of hazardous and difficult, right? Obviously they want to take the action as their last AP so they don't injure themselves, but other than that, this is fine, right? 

The summoned warpig charged in and died to Marlena and the Deso Engine, if that's warpig C. First warpig died to Alyce, Second one died there, and third one died to Leveticus. 

3 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Your counterpoint about stone usage on both sides doesn’t make much sense either. You claim that Reva’s stone usage for prevention incorporated with the rest of her kit makes her fine, yet you ignore that Ulix can ease the need for suits by stoning for them.

With a ranged master, a close combat fight is coming to you whether you want it to or not (In my experience, Sonnia's in melee at the start of turn 2 at the latest, every game), so the scenario of keeping a bearer on standby neither diminishes his usefulness nor impedes on Reva's ability to play the game. (indeed, what Shieldbearers did for their mounted compatriots) 
Additionally, for as much as pigs heal, Reva can heal more. And control a battlefield better. And contribute to a fight without having to present her face to be mauled. Warpigs actually damage themselves to be relevant, Reva does not. 
I find the arguments compelling for a Warpig, and not compelling for Reva. If you'd like to continue to champion the cause and disagree about Reva's tankiness, do it on the appropriate thread. And what this really comes down to is your fight isn't with the Warpig, it's with me, apparently, and that's okay, feel free, but not on the Warpigs thread. 

 

1 hour ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

My mind is totally boggled right now. You know, you are totally right. 

 We should campaign for them to be part of a keyword that has a master that increases their range, gives plus flips, provides damage reduction, and gives heals. They would totally be worth it then.

:^)

Increasing range to 1 inch is nice, but Ulix can't keep up when they start charging. Additionally, while they have access to Sturdy Critters and Go Hog Wild, in practice, it does not hold them up long enough to matter, simply because everything that Ulix or the pigs do is limited by card flips to begin with. I can't guarantee Tusk hits for healing, since Ulix's activation burns most of his whole hand based on need for suits and saving them for protected on his Df 4 12 wounds (speaking of actually squishy masters with short ranges) leaving critters not as useful as he hopes, and Ulix's healing, while reliable, goes off exactly once for 2 health, potentially mitigating as much damage as the pig did to itself, much less the foe, and no one really attacks pigs in any way other than one at a time. 
So, yeah, I'm saying they need the wound. 

Just now, TheJoyInGaming said:

Didn’t you just argue against Reva going up in wounds when us Reva players made the exact same argument for why she needed improvement?

I did, because I don't think she needs it and warpigs do. She has stone use and shielded and take the hit models and range. Warpigs literally need to go base to base for their height of power. Different cases. Mind boggling, right? 

4 minutes ago, GrumpyGrandpa said:

Personally I'd like to see them get +1 WP, since they become a major burden against Terrifying.

I hear you on the rest of your points, but I think this is an important weakness that summoned pigs should have, that hired warpigs will not, because the Inferiority Complex (for that ruthless) is basically stapled to the card with that stone cost and Bully. With an extra wound (or what have you) keeping your upgraded, and thus ruthless, warpigs should be easier, but also should be somewhat of a invested cost challenge to keep alive. You need them to kill terrifying dudes, and your opponent... needs you to, not, be able to do that. There's some counterplay when you need it, and their WP is thus fine, is what I'm saying.

After 3 games against them, and 1 game using them (haven't been posting batreps since I've been playing for fun, though I think @Gnomezilla will post one against another player using her Levi crew), I've concluded that warpigs are a little too not-tanky for what they do. They'll end up stampeding around and recklessing to damage themselves and while the ram from Old Major is cool to heal them back up, the real problem is they are way worth the target priority for models that damage them and end up just, uselessly imploding. I understand that they hit like a 10 stone beater for a mobile 9 stones, but they're so squishy that they never get to cash in on that reality. 
I propose that warpigs go to 10 wounds, or gain hard to wound. Not both, but either of these things I think make sense to buff their tankiness in a minimalist enough kind of way to make them worth the cost. It gives them the little-bit-more time they need to actually make use of the healing available to them. 
What's the general opinion of y'all Bayou players on that? I'm just a visiting NB player, so let me know what you think.

7 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

 Yeah, obviously an exaggeration on my part meant to illustrate a point.

I was just doing a joke, I'm confident you know matures' rare limit. I parade consistently for Nephilim so the example called out was funny to me. I was in Red, IIRC. 
Nekima or not though, that rule in combination with Philip's "hurt to gain focus" aura was straight up bonkers. Mei Feng could jackhammer trigger herself to almost death in a single activation, 2 irreducible with no LoS was waaay too much. I'm all with the agree to disagree sentiment, but I felt strongly enough on that one to have played Molly for the rest of the beta if that hadn't been changed. 

3 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

people that were going to play Nekima and all Mature Nephilim and refused to play anything else

Hey, what did I do!
Don't be ridiculous!....
there's 50 stones and Matures have rare limit 2 😢
 

2 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

you say that, but min damage 3 and black blood do a lot. Im not sure Mei can beat Nekima in a fight, seeing as how combo masters fare the worst vs black blood

Breath fire at her three times for all it matters. Hazardous Terrain doesn't provoke black blood, and rail workers deal damage on Pneumatic Toss on an after succeeding Trigger, meaning they deal damage after the target is tossed, i.e., no black blood damage. Also Mei Feng has access to healing and shielded without much effort. There's plenty of ways to play around the Black Blood. Meanwhile, the all Melee crew can't do much of anything about Hazardous if they wanna fight. 

Pleaaaase give my master a Shockwave Corpse Toss. Actually don't. I don't need AoE black blood splash mechanic. 

2 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Just change butterfly jump to key off of Mv stat (probably Mv -2 for average value of 3)

Hmmm, I don't hate this. Counterplay rather than blind nerf batting is always good. Also gives Nekima that 4 inch move in normal situations. I'm down. Devs!

3 minutes ago, retnab said:

That sounds more like NB aren't balanced right than Butterfly Jump.  If they need it to live, then maybe their defenses just aren't up to par?

I agree. At some point, Df 5 with 12 wounds on a master who's sole purpose in life is to jump into a melee isn't good enough. Mei Feng by comparison gets to radiate concealment and Hazardous, has Df 6, and armor 1. Sure, Nekima's got Regen and "card draw after you cheat" trigger, and a better damage track, but I can guarantee Mei Feng will do more damage to your crew, or even a specific model, in a given turn, while having better defenses. 
But they're not going to rebalance all of NB in the last two weeks so we can survive a tweak to Butterfly Jump. So either we're in a good spot, or we're not, based on this nerf in question. 

31 minutes ago, retnab said:

I agree it needs some sort of limiter, once per activation or discard to use, whatever works, but it goes off a bit too often currently IMO.

Can uh, we not, do that? Pretty much the only reason a lot of models in NB actually stays alive during a game is Butterfly Jump, and it's the only upgrade worth actually consistently taking in NB. Additionally, Silurids and... the... Wooshy, Air-bender monks, go from pretty good right now, to complete garbage, with either of those changes. Give me Ninja Training, or Lead Lined Coat, or Servant of Dark Powers, or Grave Spirit's Touch... hell, any of the Gremlin upgrades. Inferiority Complex on warpigs is straight up amazing.
My point is, people aren't taking Inhuman Reflexes consistently in NB because it's so OP, it's because the rest of our upgrades aren't good. I struggle to play Arcanists without taking 8-10 stones of upgrades into every game. Lead Lined Coat is basically stapled to Justice's card. We should get our own "wow ugh this upgrade", and that's Inhuman Reflexes right now.

45 minutes ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

Reva's feed on grief action is NEVER going to be used, even if no corpse markers in range

What? It's an action that can go to min damage 3, that attacks willpower for added versatility, that will heal her 4 if she kills the target with the siphon trigger and final veil. It's not even enemy only, so you could kill corpse candles to heal 4. That's a bonkers amount of healing. Also she has access to cheap minions with take the hit to tank for her. How are you people struggling to keep this woman alive?

Hey! I miss when my master had three meaningful triggers. She used to have Worthy Opponent for card draw, which card draw is strong since she also has it on her Df, but now if she's not feeding people there's a single trigger that she can declare once per activation, and is otherwise just, beating on people. That does lend itself towards the "boring" people keep complaining about. Also she gets to use her Throw Corpse action like basically never, so would it be possible to give her Dismember on her blade? Not built in obviously, but It would kind of, set up her utilitarian attack, as well as make her an ideal "Carvin' up the Turkey" kinda mom role that I miss from M2E. Also it would get around the whole "drop scrap on death because I'm part construct, even though I'm also living/undead/beast, mwahaha!"
Thoughts? 

Well, to counter the popular opinion on the "Underrepresented and in Need of Attention" thread, I actually like Nekima (I know we're all surprised). My local meta has dubbed her the highest quality "Distraction Carnifex" (ex 40k players) in Malifaux, making it seem like a good idea to attack her without actually being worth what it costs to bring her down. Now that they've all communally acknowledged this and stopped attacking her meaningfully, she just runs around with Inhuman Reflexes bullying little models to death and running schemes with her mobility. While "Ignored Scheme Runner" sounds like a bad place for a master to be, it means I win games, and I have fun with it, so I don't mind the role. 

1 hour ago, Kolath said:

Well...but you can't hire Lilith in outcasts. 

That uh, was what first part of the sentence acknowledged. The whole bit about servant of dark powers and outcast upgrades. 

Anyway, he needs something, that's for sure, I just don't know what, if people don't like the combat finesse idea then... sudden strike on bring it? Or his old Df6/Wp7? Swift action trigger on challenge? I still say combat finesse.

Other than giving the terrifying they lost back to Mature Nephilim with access to servant of dark powers (and the other outcasts upgrades I guess), he doesn't do anything that hiring Lilith doesn't already do. And that's the worst part to me honestly; his own master in my experience doesn't care to use him in comparison to just taking a mature for one more stone. They have better damage, better triggers for that damage, combat finesse, flight, size 3 fly with me, and more healing for themselves, while synergizing with growth, at all. They lose out on challenge, a WP, stone use, and an armor. And that's his "native" crew in Lilith. If they can't find the use for him, who will?