InvokeChaos

Oh my goodness, I seem to always flip tomes whenever I use that damnable aura! Then my buddy comes out with dreamer and goes... "meh, why not... Teddy..." flips a damn 13 of masks. Didn't say it was consistent! Just what it's good for haha.

Just my own two cents... 1. As mentioned above Joro is the guy. And yes Tannen can be useful. Something to consider: we have no use for 11 & 12. There is no oni summon at those levels. But Tannen makes them into Joro. Not the only reason to run Tannen, but that is the argument for him in regards to the Dreamer comparison. 2. Yes Yokai turn 1 are a great summon. I often summon 2-3. They come in flicker 2, so they stick around for turn 2, which is what I need them for. As to markers, @tomjoad had it covered: obsidian and yokai drop them on triggers. 3. If doing schemes is your weakest part, then changing Masters isn't necessarily what needs to be fixed. As especially with the new GG2017 schemes, being able to take care of your schemes is tantamount to victory. Asami is a great enabler of this in general. I slightly disagree with tomjoad as I see Asami as more of a mid-field support summoner. She has plenty of reposition tricks and the ability to buff your oni and minions as well as eat enemy scheme markers. Her damage track is solid, but it's only 1" and she's not stalwart enough to actually get in the thick. Her aggression comes purely from her summons. Shenlong is one of our most complex masters however, so I wouldn't use him as a benchmark for whether or not you can scheme. Try Asami out, and see what you think! I also recommend McCabe who has a pretty easy baseline (just throw in puppies and give them items) to a very complex set of capabilites. So he's good for ramping up your scheming and complexity game. 4. The most annoying part is simply remembering to tick it down at the end of the turn. Other than that, you are looking at summons as abilities, more than summons. Like jamming up models with a joro and putting out some damage... you could consider that a root effect that deals damage. Because he's going to go away at the end of the turn, you need to plan with the impact play in mind. If you have corpses and scrap littered about, think of it as an actual summon and look at is an attrition play. Ultimately, the question you should always ask yourself when summoning (or taking any action really) is "will this enable me to score or deny VP?" If the answer is no, then consider carefully what it's supplying you before chucking it out. I've had that monster multiple 13 hand before and not summoned anything that turn, because ultimately I needed the cards to score points. Or they were better served waiting for the following turn. In regard to the Jorogumo vs Yokai discussion... You can't really compare their summons because they are designed to do two completely different things. Yokai are mobile scheme runners with a strong aggressive utility. But their damage track, often able to get moderate, is equal to a joro's minimum. I just don't think diving in your Ml5 models to Df6+ enemies is a good play... unless you REALLY have to. to attacks or not, you can't count on it to put that damage out. It's just not a certainty. I use yokai as anti-scheme runners (I can easily one-round a sillurid with a summoned yokai) and I use Joro as bruiser control models. I also send them after anything (typically minions) that are Df5 or lower. I have often hired a Jorogumo with Asami and that works pretty well. And also makes the summoning of a second Joro that much more terrifying. You just have to take the situations into account. Yokai have often been a better choice when what I'm up against doesn't hit hard and I just need to engage it. But if I need to tie up a Nekima... you bet your bottom Joro is coming out.

Glad to help!

Indeed they can. I don't ever take wesley with brewmaster though as I use wonder weasel with terracotta instead!

Let me preface this by saying I love the Oiran, and I often field one in my lists... despite my following commentary... I would say the bigger issue is that an Oiran is 5pts. And for that point cost you can hire a 10T bros or a Yokai. In regards to the upgrade, I tend to bring the emissary, so I almost always have hidden agenda for them to benefit from. But fast and focused aren't necessarily awesome on a model that has no consistent capabilities. You can try fishing for that crow you need for the lure, but that's a beggar's gamble. Her damage track is pathetic... but at least the focus allows one of your attacks to maybe do a couple of points. I see two areas where Oiran can live: Tarpit They are super cheap, minion tarpits. Decent Df and WP with a bonus +1 when they go defensive. And disguise. Combined with their don't hit me trigger... they can lock down a pretty sizeable model with proper positioning. They have a large charge range, so giving them fast gives them a threat range of 14". But again, you need a suit for No Witnesses to trigger. So you can't rely on it unless you have the card in hand. At melee 5, that means you have to be careful what you target as well. Support Scheme Runner My favorite place for them: +1 WP aura and scheming . Fast allows them to move 10" to drop a scheme marker. Or drop, move drop. That's pretty good, maybe even better now. And against certain factions (looking at you Neverborn) that +1 WP bubble is HUGE. Unfortunately, when you weigh the pros and cons together, you are running a gamble with the Oiran to get it's full potential. When it works, it's stellar, but it's not consistent enough to build a list around. For my money, I'd still rather take the yokai (who effectively get 3AP a turn) or the 10T Bros. But if you are set on Misaki with a few Oiran, there's worse places to put it then on her. I actually prefer it on a ranged enforcer or henchman, because then I can get it off faster. But Misaki is usually up in someone's grill turn one, so...

it's still limited to the once per activation of the model (in this case Brewmaster). So in theory you can use Brewmaster to obey, get 3 attacks, then pick your poison twice 2 more attacks (no triggers)... but that seems a bit excessive. But yes, any other model who can obey can make Yasunori swing three times, so be wary of Zoraida! Same issue as with Asami... she can obey to make an oni charge for 1AP and ping her for one damage... no bueno. I have run Yasunori with Brewmaster and I absolutely swilled my target, then obeyed Yasunori into three attacks. It's just as good as it sounds.

My original core with hannah and anna, hannah was the replacement for the Emissary. Not that the emissary wasn't fantastic... he absolutely was. But even with mold of the other, my opponents seemed to see the big dragon and go "that's dying ASAP." But then I moved to Yasunori (as I said in an earlier post)... but I've considered going back to the Emissary. The shadow conflux is pretty fantastic strangely. I like it mostly for my obsidian oni who tend to hang back and rain fire. To the Yu commentary, I do by and large agree that his points are better spent elsewhere (like Yasunori!) but I would remind that we have access to easy poison in the Akaname and easy burning from the Wonder Weasel to enable both of the other upgrades. Low River Style can indeed be a bit wonky, but I will trade a poison on my Yokai for no slow after summoning all day long. And any condition is better than paralyze. Not lobbying that he's some auto-take, but I don't think he's an auto-don't take either. I'd really like to check out him being support style with the terracotta and wonder weasel... that seems pretty solid, and as I take the terraweasel as part of my core anyways, Yu becomes a perpetual source of upgrade swapping. Probably too janky though... *goes back to Chiaki + Yasunori*

@EnternalVoid one of my looks was actually to go crooligan, necropunk, doxie, bell... because its only like 20pts for more models that have a lot of utility. Would that be too little "kill"? If I took sybelle with an upgrade i would have six points for something to assist in murderfacing which isn't that much. But arguably with pounces and lures and sybelle, i should be ok? Or ditch down to get another beater (maybe the crooligan for a valedictorian?) @Erorior that sounds fantastic! Hmmmm

I really feel I want to start with a couple of scheme runners in my arsenal just because of GG2017. So I'm kind of building around that concept. I'm starting to really seriously lean towards Sybelle, belles, necropunks/crooligans. Then add some form of beater or so.

TL;DR - With so many pushes, places and utility tools in our box, GG2017 is the year of the Ten Thunders, in my opinion. We did well with the strats of last year, but the kill-y nature of the schemes didn't play to our strengths as much as this year looks to. I'm only going to focus on suited schemes right now. Claim Jump - Some minions who can complete every turn by themselves: Yokai (needs a 5 each turn), 10T Bros (needs a mask each turn), Wandering River Monk... Shenlong enables this with any model and McCabe giving nimble opens up the same option. Convict Labor was always pretty close to an auto-take for me, and claim jump will probably be as well. Yokai get a +1 here because they place at the end of the turn when lowering flicker, potentially allowing placement to deny this scheme after scoring it themselves Frame for Murder - we've got great targets in general... such as Yasunori, Izamu, Shadow Emissary. Guys that the opponent goes "ok, that needs to die." Several of our minions are pretty good choices for this as well (10T bros, illuminated come to mind). I think the struggle is we don't have a lot of neutralizing outside of say Brewmaster. We have great tarpit units and some pretty seriously healing... so there is always the idea of just tying up models and sticking in hard. Yan Lo giving out Armor to everyone while healing with Sensei Yu on low river... I mean, that's just bananas healing. Especially with a low river monk, Sun Quiang and Obsidian Oni. Something I think that I'm still going to consider this an auto two points to my opponent. The benefit is that our really big hitters that I mentioned above are enforcers, so we can at least deny that third point. I might avoid Lynch if this is in the scheme pool though! Leave Your Mark - Asami, McCabe, Yokai, Shenlong, Yu, Wandering River Monk... we have no shortage of models here that can accelerate to incredible speeds and get this done. Push and placing is our thing (enter Lust) and that gives us plenty of options here. Denial... we have movement a go-go... I'd totally be ok using asami to nom markers while sending out oni to continue my other schemes. Eliminate the Leadership - I feel we have plenty of tools to accomplish this scheme but it's going to depend on the opponent's master, obviously. Though having access to Bettari might open this door a bit wider for us. A lot of our Masters are pretty stalwart and we have the eponimous Misdirection as well. Still I think this is a meh scheme for us, despite models like Misaki and Lynch (who can devastate a master by themselves). I just think we are a bit shy on high min models and could probably look elsewhere for more easily gained points. Accusation - With several fast models that can travel distance and still have an AP or 0 action to interact, this is a good scheme for us again. Yokai again are in my top picks for here. With Yin, Izamu, depleted (w/ Lynch), 10T bros and several other models that can be hard to shift or get away from, we have plenty of solid options here. Again, our push/places help with being able to disengage from combat to remove the condition. Dig Their Graves - I've been seriously considering bringing a performer into my Asami lists as of late, because I feel the lure and anti-scheme tech is strong enough to take one of my obsidian oni slots. And this scheme is one of the reasons why. Sun Quiang is going to be awesome for and against this. Also a special nod to Asami who can, with good positioning, let an oni can drop a scheme marker and then charge for 1AP. Also McCabe giving nimble... Oh the choices! EXTRA CREDIT: So Asami... she summons in an oni... Your opponent has a model and it's going to die from poison/burning/what have you at the end of the turn. But your oni is going to phase out and due to Heavenly Design, drop a scheme marker... Can you drop the scheme marker BEFORE resolving the condition and thus score this scheme? So needless to say you can sum up with "we've got the tools and we've got the talent!"

Something I always forget to account for is that Yu is walk 7"... with Asami's pull you-push me, and said 0, they both can cover TREMENDOUS ground. I would probably take him with fermented river or low river though, for the utility. He can actually become quite a threat with either of those or high river, even. Asami doesn't need movement trick as much, and fast is good, but it takes two actions to give it out. With Asami's AP1 charge for oni, she's already extremely efficient and one yokai can complete claim jump in a turn, so it WRS feels less needed. But removing conditions, healing asami from the pings, or having a model that on average is +flip to damage, ignoring triggers and giving slow... that seems pretty awesome. Maybe not worth 11pts, but I always take a terracotta now with the wonder weasel, so... What are people's thoughts on bringing in a performer into her lists? Being able to lure models closer to her summons for charging, and pop scheme markers, seems really solid with Asami. And Asami can pull the performer along or hand out focus as necessary.

what @Nikodemus said. As such any solid model with high armor works for the target, but samurai is one of the cheapest options for what it provides. 8ss gets you what was just listed in the post above. I've used lazarus before too, but he's 11ss, but can self heal and has blasts. it's really what you want to use. Just ranged works a tad better because I tend to use Swill more than Drinking Party... but if you're going to be sending brewie into the circle of death, an Izamu could work, or even an illuminated. just depends on what you're trying to do and what you like

Yeah I have been really considering doing Nicodem for the campaign, and I am leaning towards running Sybelle with a couple of belles, a graveyard spirit and something as a lead up to him. Especially because I have alt nico, which is just pretty! But I like that idea of Valedictorian as a progression to McMourning... gives me an excuse to use rafkin.

Yeah I looked at the mortimer idea, but I just feel like in this format I really don't want to help my opponent by wounding my "master" like that. Plus I'm not a huge morty fan in general. I do need to figure out what schemes we are using though as that's a great point on how much it influences. Will report back when i have that

Hello fellow recyclers! So going into a Shifting Loyalties campaign and am waffling heavily on where to go with my starting list. I have narrowed it to Valedictorian, Vincent, Sybelle, Anna Lovelace and Datsue Ba. Any advice on who would be a stronger or weaker pick? I can pretty much build into any master, as I like them all. But that would be another aspect... who would be good to build into. I've only played in a campaign once and briefly, so I really don't know the best way to go about things. Thanks!

I don't think it is much less valuable. Being able to create pincer points by having Yan on one side and Yasu on the other, but a lightning dance suddenly puts an enemy between them and Yasu's incredible charge range allows him to completely change his positioning. It doesn't shore up a weakness at all, but it does open up some other doors. At least in theory

Absolutely not an auto-include but a strong possibility always. I have run Yasunori in every list since I've gotten him, just testing the field, and he is a game changer. Not so far as he does anything particularly ridiculous, he's just really good for what he is and more importantly gives some crews a "OMG" target. That's something I feel we lack as a whole. Outside of the Emissary and Huggy, our non-master models typically don't slot into the "quick kill it with fire!" category. I think the mental pressure alone that he brings is incredible. Every opponent I've played him against, even when he wasn't stellar, HAD to think of how to deal with him. When you force a question that your opponent has to answer, you've gained an advantage. Quick breakdown on the various master's and Yasunori: Yan Lo - Can make him Armor 3, heal him and help deliver models into his incredible threat range. Great sage is fantastic for prepping for an ancestor Rez and the extra card draw is always welcome for Yan. Shenlong - Pushes and fast, plus condition removal and healing... yes please. These two tandem well because you can rocket them both up the board and really put some serious pressure on your opponent. Yasu requires dedication to bring down thanks to his 12 wds and armor 1 and the healing from shen just magnifies that. Asami - between some repositioning from her drag and her 1AP charge, Yasu likes Asami. Yasu's damage track isn't worth the focus +2 Asami can grant, though. Like Yan, she could also pull models into range, and with her reposition trigger get out so that Yasu can go to work. NOTE: The 1AP charge is effectively giving Yasu fast. For a 1AP drag, Asami can pull Yasu into position and then he can charge for 1AP... or Shen can push him into position for a 1AP action, give him fast off that action and you have the same thing. Just food for thought McCabe - the makes everyone better master, giving a shirt or the badge to yasu is fantastic. And let's not forget Mounted Guard... That just seems wrong, if not a bit overkill! Lynch - no particular synergy here that I see. Other than the pitch an ace for defensive. But fielding Yasu AND Huggy on the same table makes your opponent really have some difficult decisions to make. Mei Fang - can use her vent steam to help him stay alive at range until he's within charge range but otherwise no real synergy I can see. Brewmaster - makes everyone better by making your opponent worse! Swillmaster just means that Yasu is hitting against a negative with a positive... nasty. Misaki - No direct synergy again, but she never minds a big nasty diving with her. Also, with the new changes to Misaki this year, Yasu potentially can fill the role she performed as beater, while you take her as more of a damaging-control master. Could be good!

I agree, I just feel if you're going to try the chi 3 turn 1 combo... might as well do it with as few resources as possible. And two goryo isn't a bad run for Yan Lo in my opinion. Especially being able to give them Armor +2. They are also a fairly good counter to raspy and sonnia from seishin being able to pop no blasts or aura's for a turn. And being able to pop one to two out essentially for free a turn is not to be sniffed at, even for that. Sure you still have the main attack to deal with, but it's much easier to mitigate in general. I've been considering running Sue with Yan Lo for the extra card draw (synergy in that Yan can heal him too), the anti-Ca aura, his powerful gun and his synergy with Sun Quiang, another potential look for me. I've had a list shaping up to be something along the lines of Goryo x2, terracotta, wonder weasel, sun quiang, sue and stuff... Once I get back from abroad, I'll give it a go and report my results

No worries there, @Saduhem. Fetid was just expressing why he doesn't like it. I didn't take that aggressively at all. Maybe a touch frank, but that's alright I've had several discussions with them on the forum. Always civil! This is actually exactly my thoughts about it being too cute. To quote some of what Saduhem already said, it's the trading of AP for model costs. Yeah I could just hire a Rogue Necro... but then I don't have Mort with chatty and the ability to toss out corpses on command. Plus the corpse bloat bomb. Nurse is a semi-auto include for me, so no loss there. The biggest weakness I have with the list honestly is that it uses 3 master AP. Mort isn't sacrificing his walks or AP to make the corpses. It's two zeros. And while I am spending a stone on MLH to basically just help get a necro out, I don't feel that's a waste because the card also fuels setup for 2nd turn. The nurse doesn't HAVE to heal Mort either... I just feel it's probably the best use of her AP at taht point. Walk and heal. Chiaki can then walk and remove slow from the necro. The argument would be that it's better to double walk my models that turn one for positioning, and that's a valid point. But Chiaki and the Nurse I typically want to keep back a bit. And Reva is so fast that it doesn't really matter. So at the end of the day I'm really only trading three master AP and 3 stones (one for summon and two for corpse bloat) for a Rogue Necro. That just seemed like a great trade to me. Obviously depending on schemes and strats.

The goryo each can pop out a seishin which yan lo can target and kill to gain a chi do to his trigger. Add in your start of turn discard and you have three chi. Its kind of like wastrel chi combo but less card intensive. Though I actually don't remember if he one shots seishin on min dam now that I think about it so still might not be efficient enough to consider. Dont have cards handy to check.

Hello all! I started malifaux with only picking up asian themed models (kirai and misaki) but I fell deeply into ten thunders with Yan Lo and Shenlong. As soon as Reva was announced though, I knew I would need to return to rezzers. And after buying the entire faction... well, it's time to really get some serious table time. That leads me to the following idea and a desire to know if it's just too cute to be effective: So I played against a buddy right before christmas and got a weird idea. First of all, want to make sure I didn't mess it up... here we go. Reva with Guise, blood mark and spare parts, Mortimer with bloat and MLH, a nurse just because. After initiative, Reva pops a corpse candle just on the opponent's side of the board and mortimer MLHs. Your first activation, summoned candle walks, then 0 actions to kill itself and drop a corpse. Next mortimer walks up and 0 twice to put two more corpses down. Reva goes, pops a candle out, marks it to move it up and kill itself, dropping a fourth marker. She summons a rogue necro. Nurse can heal mort, or give necro more walk or whatever's needed. It worked REALLY well, but we were also playing interference and he was playing an aggressive crew, so I really didn't need to go to him at all. My carrion emissary blocked off a bunch of lanes turn one and then became the focus of his turn two, but not before doing some more work. I summoned a second rogue necro that game on turn three. But that was just one game, and I really don't know if I'm just being silly here. I know that I am denying the whole concept of Reva's arcing that first round, but with the emissary and her shards, I didn't feel like I did anything that detrimental. Blood mark was really useful, and the only reason I didn't also summon a couple of autopsies was I don't have their card (I have the metal ones). So what's the verdict? Too cute with Reva?

Haha, no worries. I meant that I don't always run a non-master who can properly where Smoke and Shadows (as it's limited to Blossom models) and I typically only put two upgrades on Misaki. So if I don't bring Yamaziko, Misaki gets Smoke and Shadows. I will clarify my post to include the upgrade, as that was what I was implying.

ah yes, quite right, adjusted.

Updated!

Graves is a great choice for Misaki as you want a brutish midfield model, and him having a push to boot is awesome. Obsidian Oni are just all around fantastic models to add to your collection. Samurai/Katanaka Snipers... pick your ranged death. They do different things, but are both really solid models that do a lot of work and more importantly give that bit of ranged threat that really benefits Misaki. Oiran are indeed underpowered, but that being said, they provide some fantastic benefits to certain crews and against certain lists. Anti-charge is meaningless against guild for instance, but it's pretty great against neverborn, as is their +1 WP aura. 10T Bros are solid. Can't go wrong with them. Yamaziko is really good, but she's a tad too fragile against a lot of opponents. But she loves smoke grenades, which gives her a lot of surivability. Alternatively, for the same point cost is Yin the Pengalan, who defines the role of tarpit. Jorogumo are cute, especially as last blossom models, and have some fun synergy with Misaki, Yamaziko or Ototo if they are wearing the Smoke and Shadows upgrade. Joro can bury and then pop up as a bodyguard for the divebombing Misaki (something I LOVE doing). Terracotta Warrior and Kamaitachi are a great combo that I take regularly over say Shang + Shadow Effigy. So I just want to point out that Misaki is one of those masters that has some fantastic fluff builds, that aren't the most powerful lists. But that being said they can be quite a bit of fun. If you are looking to have fun, and have opponents who aren't going to take advantage and just crush you for not playing competitive, go ahead and get Oiran and Yamaziko. Pick up some Ronin. Maybe grab some jorogumo and just have fun with that last blossom mechanic and not being able to be charged! I love playing that kind of list for the fluff and flavor, and I've absolutely won with it. But it is an uphill battle in a few ways. if you'd like a more complete, functional build... I'd look elsewhere over Yamaziko and Oiran. They are delicious flavor and great models, but they are hard to get value out of at times and can be frustrating. My first Misaki list ever was the fun build, and I lost horribly many times until I got the hang of it. Now I take it for fun, but if I want to be competitive, look to other choices. The Asami and Shenlong crew boxes are also good options to help support Misaki as Sensei Yu is amazing with her, and Yokai and Ohagura Bettari compliment her playstyle well.