Meliondor

Exactly this death stars, where everyone has +1 armor, a free ram, healing from slophaulers, perhapts some anti-WP duel tech is a problem. Especially if there are more than enough points left for sheme runners, because gremlins are so cheap. You should try it out, it makes some guild players cry

Actually Malifaux has no faction ranking, but a master ranking. This master ranking has some rock, paper, scissor in it. And actually all factions have some top casters, so if you have everything of your faction you will always have one crew, that can do at least 50-50 against that was your opponent brings. Strong masters can do this on 80% of mission / opponents, really bad casters are always a bit weaker than an other master of the same faction would be on the same match up. So I would never say guild is ranked 7, I do fine with guild. On every mission (also if this sometimes means taking a watcher and a hunter or 4 guild hounds...what I do not like) and also against every opponent. And then come gremlins. Against other factions if my opponent brings stone and I bring scissor I have a problem. That is ok, because I could have taken stone for 50-50 or paper for an 70-30 win chance. But now with scissor I have only 30-70, what is still not a lost game. But gremlins can bring gremlin-scissor against guild-scissor and also be 70-30. If I bring stone against gremlin scissor (this means I can build an anti-list after I know exactly what my opponent brings) I can only reach 40-60 or perhaps 50-50. Other factions might not have this problem against gremlins, because playing against gremlins is just like playing against guild, but with more small models (not my idea, that sentence from a fellow arcanist player). But gremlins are just the better guild. It is not about the whiskey golem (that is not that great for gremlins) or just dumb luck triggers. It is the whole concept of shooty models, buffs, and movement tricks that made guild quite enjoyable, but that gremlins do better as a faction. I really needed some time to find stuff, that guild can do, that gremlins do not do better...and I think that is the real problem here. Gremlins came as new faction and while each faction had a certrain "role" with 1-2 master that break this role gremlins did just take over a place between ressers and guild. While ressers still have the advantage in summoning (while needing corpse markers most of the time), guild does NOT have a ranged advantage against gremlins. The number 1 ranged damage faction is now gremlins. Guild has to find a new reason to exist as faction and I do not see a role, that they can fit. Against other factions than gremlins this does not matter, because we still outshoot all of them and dominate the board. Against gremlins at least I will have to find a complete new of playing and I did not find any suggestions in this thread to do this. Just some learn to play and learn the weaknesses of gremlins ideas or just the idea "play gremlins yourself". This would solve my problem, but actually I do not like the playstyle of gremlins, even if I think it is superior.

Just because whiskey golem is 1 vs 1 stronger than a Whiskey golem does mean, that the golem is actually good for gremlins, since they can take better stuff for that many points :-). Oh and peacekeeper offers more than just melee killing power and resilence thank to his drag and the marker removal. I would prefer the pigapult as control piece over a whiskey golem anytime and both are similar expensive (and so expensive that you will not take them both normally).

Oh done already. Actually with all the factions. Swap crew or lend a crew and play it for 1-2 games. There are masters I like (Perdita, Lilith, Nicodem, Rasputina...), but nothing that felt as dumb as gremlins. I did not like their game style...taking damage all the time, trying to keep up with the healing and playing without opponent half the time (you activate so much more than him, damage your model, place markers and run around, then run around and heal your models...all this without interaction from your opponent). And in the end you have no single model you move that is good. You have "bubbles", because no gremlin can be alone. With guild you put a pathfinder somewhere up the front (where you want him to be), let him Focus, shoot, place markers with the help of an austringer. You can put a rifleman on a roof and let him shoot stuff and he does damage with himself. Gremlins alone are not dangerous, but with build in ram, free armor, healing support (to abuse reckleess) you get some crazy stuff together and can still do schemes. Gremlins are not the most fun for me (I prefer small numbers and models that can do stuff on their own), but I think they are by far the strongest faction at the moment.

Oh, I did. I have nearly all cryx. But you are not up to date. The current top lists are from cygnar and circle (but cryx, Khador, legion, PoM, eöves and Skorne also have their top lists that come close and allow fair games) To your ideas: sonnia with defense 8 und cast value 7... I do not believe this will win. The rest is also convincing. I will try to come up with something in guild, that gremlins can not copy or do even better and see if it works. But up to now I think we will get lots of cool stuff with the next wave (at least if the designers understand what they did with gremlins to guild).

DF 9 Perdita does not work for long, since Franc will die first. Like always. This is how you counter here. Against most opponent this works, because they can't kill Franc with ranged attacks. But Gremlins can, wow again gremlins (and only gremlins) counter this tactic. Sonnia with flamewalls does not work, because the Pigapult can kill her easily, even out of LoS.

The question is not: Are gremlins strictly OP. The answer will come to people after more gremlins get released and people have to play against them more often. They have their weaknesses or at least a price to pay. If they can build a bubble you will be surprised how much healing 2 Slop Haulers can throw around and if you take a low def caster that could destroy such a bubble you would be surprised what a pigapult will do to him, but if this is OP or not against other factions time will tell. The question in this thread is still: What can guild do that they do not better ? I am talking about small stuff like a single ability to remove conditions. Before gremlins guild was the shooting faciton, no faction could bring as much guns as them. This was their advantage and the reason why models like guild guards, Death Marshals or similar stuff were priced right. Now suddenly an other faction came and took this place as best shooting faction from guild. Against other factions you could get 1-2 shots off and could remove / damage their sheme runners. Even if you were not fast enough to catch them you could still just shoot them (or even drag / pull them). Against gremlins you start realising that you have no Silurids / metal gamins, that your guild hounds are just a bad replacement for the great scheme runners in this games, because you do not have your guns to carry the game for you. What is left ? We are not the summoning faction (btw gremlins are the second best here...), we are not the high armor or the fast moving faction (btw. Gremlins are one of the fastest factions with Reckless...). So what is the spot that is still left for guild ? Or what can we do better than gremlins ?

The Whiskey golem is something special. Nimble, Flurry, Defense 7 and most of the time a model gets only 1 melee attack off against it (+ it can heal...). Its offense is great, too (nimble + Flurry or charge...). But the peacekeeper has stuff the golem does not have: h2w, a great ranged weapon that has won me games by pulling models and the option to remove many markers at once. I think both have their place in the game, but of c ourse in a direct duel the whiskey golem is (again) just better. Oh and thanks to nimble he is also better at schemes. Oh and I just learned what the Bufhwackers Boost their confidence makes: If an other gremlin misses a shot they may shot an other time at the target...with their shooting of 6 this is quite nasty. And the Bayou gremlins...it is not their fighting stat, but just the 3 actions in combination with their cheap point costs, that lets them win schemes. They are just the better guild hounds with guns and they do not need a friend near them to place markers... Yes hard to see what we have, that gremlins might lack. Our only advantage is, that not all gremlins are released yet. Then the cries of despair in this forum should increase :-).

I worked on answering the big question of this thread: What can guild do, that gremlins simply canoot do better AND cheapeer. I found some things they did not have: 1. Pale Riders for late game 2. Pine Box against big models (not useful against gremlins, but Gremlins have a harder time against some stuff here) 3. Nothing as strong as a peace keeper 4. And the one and only thing that is really something gremlins might actually like: Our Guardsmenstuff. Riflemen, Pathfinder and Austringer This are actually the only things that allow us to outshoot Gremlins in mass of medicore shots.Let's see what happens if I try to bring the shooting match to a new level.

To the topic where the problem with Gremlins is: There 3 different types of missions in Malifaux: The ones where you have to walk (like line in the stand or even worse all the missions where you need to do stuff on the other side of the table) The ones that are too easy to accomplish (distract for example) The killy / surviving ones (bodyguard, reckoning, assassination) With guild I like the ones where walking is not necessary of course, because this is something they really can’t. The killy ones are of course our territory, where we shoot stuff and keep our stuff save (with Franc, Guardians, condition removal, flame walls, whatever). Perdita is our prime master for this. She can assassinate most stuff in the game and her family models are all just very very strong (loco in a box, Franc, Granny or cheap pistoleros that increase defense all around). If an elite crew around Perdita is not the answer, the answer is called Sonnia with lots of witchling stalkers and malifaux child for double flame wall. You can hide what you want save and burn away your opponent. This worked against any of the factinos / missions, as long as you do not have to walk to much (90% Perdita, 10% Sonnia). If you have to walk it becomes a bit more challenging and you need to include stuff like the watcher, guild hounds, hunters and hope that they accomplish their job…but the hole games becomes much harder for your team to win. Well then you meet this Goblins. They did not just copy the family team, they improved it, made it cheaper and gave it access to a swarm of cheap models, that may interact and are not incredibly slow. The pigapult alone forbids using Sonnia, since it will kill her even behind flamewalls. Against the family it will remove Franc or other important models (the box around Loco for example) in a single activation, so it is not a bad choice here too. The really bad part then starts if you realize that Ophelia is just better than Perdita. Perdita may choose to ignore cover or armor, Ophelia gets positive flips, so she nearly ignores cover, shoots better at targets without cover and deal so much damage, that armor becomes irrelevant. So you can just loose if you try to outkill them before playing on shemes. But the moment you go for shemes this pesky little goblins will outactivate you and use their last activations to kill your models and remove markers if possible. Against the other factions the game is mostly balanced (even against Lilith I went at least 50-50 after learning her tricks), but gremlins are just this step ahead. For other factions this might not be that obvious, but guild is the faction they copied and improved to create gremlins. The forum is full of complains or threads about gremlins / mechanical riders (the current top OP things in the game), so I should not have been surprised that this actually holds true… Oh by the way, the gremlin player is one of my standard opponents and he is playing half of the factions in the game (and buying more stuff this very moment perhaps…) and I win more games against him than I loose. He agrees that with the gremlins he found either “his perfect faction” or that they are just plain OP, because his win statistic with them is really crazy J. Or our meta has to change completely, but I think we will need at least an other wave full of anti-gremlin stuff to keep up with the luck of the gremlins (not only is it printed on their cards, they even had luck during beta that this rules did not change…)

In faction balance wise Malifaux is really good, with just some small exceptions (executioner...). Much better than WM/H for example. Between factions I think Malifaux is more on a 40K level or like rock, paper, scissor ;-) At the moment Gremlins do not have that much options (without Proxies) and still Guild struggles to beat them, even if ignoring shemes and building a special anti-gremlin list (see answers in this thread). Perhaps that is the problem here, we are missing a special anti-gremlin master...

Better balanced game by far is Warmachine / Hordes. It has other issues (the better player wins and depening how bad the worse player is a game can take less than 15 minutes and is no fun at all) and costs much more money. So even 2 factions in Malifaux are cheaper than one in WM / H. So I think it far superioer in balancing the main factions ( I do count guild as one of the main factions, I hope I am right...) without being a superior game to Malifaux. Back to topic: I want to play the way I want and this is shooting stuff, moving out of melee, shotting stuff even more and have models that are far superior to any thing my opponent has on the field what works only with buffing + killing enemies if my models die :-) This worked well with Perdita and Sonnia + papa loco in a Box, wichtling stalkers, Franc for pushing defense and the other stuff we have. I usually kill something big (master or 10+ Enforcer) in turn 2 and then try to win the game by force (killing enemies scheme runners while having only a few scheme runners myself. Very often I have one model pushed in a way, that it kills 1 enemy per turn and does not get attacked in return or just does not die (Lady J + Franc and Loco in a box, Perdita + Franc and Loco in a Box) or Sonnia + Loco behind flame walls... I think you get the Idea ;-). Now I realised that Gremlins play a similar game. Synergies + aura effects, very much killing power, some movement tricks and explosions if they die. Stuff like the Pigapult or their summon abilities are just crazy, too. So when I started guild was the best faction for me, but now this has changed to gremlins. No problem for me, more models to paint. And I think I stil like Malifaux, soI will just get some new models and will try to sell of my guild to someone who likes mexican demonhunters.

I started Guild for shooting + perhaps some movement tricks + buff effects. Gremlins offer much better shooting, also some movement tricks and passiv aura buffs. Now I to start thinking outside the things I want to play to beat the army that offers everything I want... I am really thinking about buying gremlins or quitting the game all together (we have enough other tabletops here, that did not do any crazy balancing fails for a whole faction).

Ok, so I do see it right, that gremlins are just better if I rely on shooting stuff, some movement actions and buffing... I actually liked the family all the time and normally they do quite well for me. Next time I will try Sonnia. Walls to block LoS and AoE-damage to kill stuff that is standing in the same Aura. I think this might be one of the matchups where Sonnia is stronger than Perdita... Any other options / ideas ?

I just had the chance to meet Goblins and wow, they feel like a Guild 2.0. I started the guild because I wanted to have easy masters that do a lot of damage (Sonnia, Perdita nd Lady J where my first ones). But Goblins really do this on a completly different level. The huge price guild pays for its ranged ability is the slow walking speed and the armor problems (no armor on own models and cannot deal with armor on the other side...) and of course all problems the slow wk brings with scenarios. Goblins just have a third activation and more models, what helps with scenarios and allows them to simply outshoot us. I mean seriously, I thought Perdita had overpowered shooting, but Ophelia just deals more damage per shot...with a free positive flip each time. So is there anything we can do better than them ? I can see how other factions play to their strengh and beat them...but IMHO gremlins have all our strenghs and their own (with third activation, cheap models and just more damage per activation...).

"This" does not really tell much. I am no fan of "Pullymyfinger", because it leaves so many open. 1. At what schemesis Mccabe good at ? 2. How does a list with thim look at 50 points ? 3. What models to take with him for great combos ? 4. Which of his upgrades do you take ?

Hi! I hear people in this forum praising McCabe. I see that he has speed and his dismount ability can come in handy. And he can spead his upgrades and retake them if the owning model dies (so nothing is lost here). But how is this working on the field ? People count him to the top 3 of our masters and I really do not see this on paper. And before I buy him I want to understand what I should take with him.

Hi! We are playing Malifaux for some time now and it gets more and more "serious". Since we know the rules, the models, the missions and so on winning becomes part of the game. Now I want to know, if I am missing something improtant for my guild, that could help me winning. Malifaux is unique in the way the army is build. You draw for your mission and then choose your master + his army. This means that a collection of different models is nescessary. Currently my plan is the following: My favorite Scheme options: If I get the option to play schemes, that do not involve sheme markers or too much movement, then I take them. Then I choose normally Perdita + her Family or Sonnia if I expect to see models with low arm and many good targets for AoEs. Ok scheme options: If I can choose schemes, that allow me to go to the middle of the board and hold it (so I do not need to cross the middle line) I either choose Hoffmann + his Deathball of constructs (it is too small for a deathstar) or Perdita with a more melee oriented build (Franc + Diestro, Judge, Peacekeeper, Austringers to shoot into melee and disengage my models) Worst scheme options: Stuff where I have to move to the enemy side of the board. I prefer staying back and shooting. This is where I use Lady Justice. A watcher on one flank, hunter or guild dogs on the other. She walks forward in the middle of board together with Franc and tries to take down everything alone ;-). Depending on point size Judge / Peacekeeper / Death Marshall ... will go with her. This are the game I feel the least comfortable with. I like defending my own side of the table, assasination, keeping a model alive, plant explosives against melee opponents, interacting with enemy melee models...anything that does not force me to interact with the middle of the board or even the wrong side of the table... So am I missing some great master here or some options for competetive gaming ?

Hi! We are going to start a campaign according to the beta rules. Yes we are a bit late, but I think we will have fun anyways ;-). I will play with my guild of course, but I am unsure what to take, so I have a few questions: 1. What are the most important models for 50Soulstones you would take, to play most missions ? I thought about: a) Frank as my Henchmen, since he is always good. Melee, gun, support... 1 Watcher for Schemes (or a Brutal Effigy..) c) 1 Austringer, because Ausrtringer d! 1 Witchling Stalker, because Witchling Stalker e) Peacekeeper f) Then I am unsure...so many options. Death Marshal, Loco, Abueala, Santiago, a Pathfinder... 2, What is the master I should aim for ? My favorite caters are Perdita and Sonnia (I like range damage casters), so it will be one of this 2. Perdita offers good defense ans really great single target damage. With Sonnia I have the problem, that the damage is always too low...her medium damage are just 3 and the weak AoEs deal 2 damage, this does not hurt targets with armor, even if 2 of her CA 9 attacks hit. I also have the problem, that I cannot get things to burn with her, because the stalkers rarely hit something with ranged attacks and in melee they stand in the way and I do not want to shoot them with Sonnia :-). So I think it will be Perdita, but her 10 wds are always a problem for me... Do you have any other good ideas / experiences for the campaign mode ?

Hi! I read here many times, that one of the best models with Sonnia is a Freicoprs specalist. The Synergie is obvious: He makes burning if he explodes, he shoots with a trigger that spreads burning and he can ignore cover. So he sets things on fire and Sonnia can shoot them without LoS and create Witchlings. On the other hand I never find 9 Soulstones for him. With Sonnia I want at least 3 witchling stalkers (good melee damage, spread burning with every attack and on death), 1 Austringer (to move Sonnia out of melee or for all the other possible purposes), that gungfighter that comves with her in the box (to finish of burning targets). This alone are 30 Soulstones without upgrades. And I still have no beatstick! In the end I need at least 2 Upgrades for Sonnia and some Soulstones to spend during game. (for suits for example). A Freicorps specalist would still not be the Beatstick I need, because he also sucks in melee. And with only 10" range he will end up in melee.... So how do you build your list around Freicorps Specialist ? And do you really think he is nescessary / useful for Sonnia at 9SS ?

Why do people like +4 burning on Sam so much ? It is just 4 damage and easy to dodge, while also very situational in use. I normally never buy this upgrade. I mean 1 attack,for 4 damage. But only on short range, agianst models in terrain and with low attack value. Really worth the extra point ?

Oh, Franc is a must have for her. Well actually he is a must have for nearly every guild list, but for her he is even more must have

I like her very much. She is our best beatstick. She can heal and smash things. And if you play her, you will realise that she is really versatile. She can smash the model right in front of her, or the model on her left. if you have the right card in hands or use soulstones, you can perhaps even smash both! What is not to love on her ? Especially in smaller games she might seem even overpowered.

Hm, the answers do still not help me. There is no blocking object. If a model stands on a rooftop or a bridge without walls and below him is a model he wants to drag...can he drag it or not ? So shooting model (or model with push ability) is on height 4, target is on height 0. Can I push the model to me and change the height ? The model below does not touch any terrain during this movement, because the space on height 0 is empty. The terrain piece where the model dragging is starts on height 4 (as I said: Rooftop going a bit over the house or a bridge for example).

Ok, so I am playing on a 2D battlefield with "height" modifiers and falling damage. Interesting :-). An other question just for clarification: If my peacekeeper is on a bridge without walls (or on a rooftop) and below him on about 8" range is an opponent and I hit him, then I push him 8" to me. That means suddenly he is standing next to me...but there is no ground on my height, so he falls down. - Correct ? What if I use the Pull from judge, to pull someone up to me, where he can't stand ? Same effect ? And does pulling in height cost double "movement", too ?