baskinders

I don't mind if there is an electronic copy of the product for free OR for sale in an ebook format, just as long as there is an electronic copy available. I know some people have a strong traditional view about liking physical printed material and that's fine, I'm happy for them to have the option to purchase those (even though I feel that with electronic technology as good as it is physical printing is basically unnecessary and indulgent pollution ). But this doesn't mean those that prefer electronic media shouldn't be given the choice of that. The fact is that if its not offered by Wyrd its going to happen anyway through the file sharing community, someone will scan the product an make it available outside of Wyrd control. Much better from a business point of view to retain control yourself...

These changes all sound pretty reasonable on first look, excited to try them out! Pre measuring is the greatest thing ever, as now my regular opponent will suffer less from analysis paralysis wondering if something is in range and our games will take less time to play, meaning more games!!! I also like the staggered approach of releasing profiles, better to work through them and get them close to right than release everything and half half as rush jobs. If you think of it not as getting the book 2 characters late after the release and more as getting the rules and book 1 characters early before full release (which is what would have happened had they neede to wait and release everything at once all completed) then it's a good deal

I'm super super hoping for ebook versions of the new rules and the upgraded stat cards!!! I don't buy any physical books anymore in any other genre except for the random miniature games that haven't evolved from the annoyingly large, cumbersome and damagable physical book format, so please Wyrd, let me buy an ebook version .

Beautiful, thanks Ratty.

Just a quick clarification, is the "Attack" in Yin's Mass of Viscera capitalized because its at the start of the sentence and therefore applies to all "attack" Flips, or is it capitalized because its referring to only "Attack" Flips ie melee and ranged strikes.

Yep, that's what I thought. So linked to the Soul Porter he could get 5 walk moves hey, quick!

So I'm pretty sure the answer is yes to both but wanted to make sure, is Toshiro himself affected by his Undead Warlord ability and his "Teki o juden!" action? Given they're not pulses or auras I'd assume yes but I remember something about Lady J and Inspiring Swordplay but can't remember how that panned out?

Sweet mate, that make sense now, I'm with you, good chat

Cool, so I guess the only three things that would make an action fizzle would be: - it summons a restricted model, or - it does not have a legal target, or - it can not meet the AR cost Does that about cover all eventualities?

Yeah sorry for keeping this going so long but I want to understand how this intended to work. How do you determine when an effect can be completed successfully and hence not cause the action to fizzle, but not "applied" once completed, as opposed to unsuccessfully completing the effect and fizzling the action? I can't see a clear definition appearing from this thread? The Levi summon example could be either of those (summon effect occurs but model is immediately removed from play due to rare restrictions OR summon effect does not occur) as could the McCabe example (apply the slow effect but the target is immune OR target is immune and the effect does not occur hence the shot fizzles). I'm just not sure where the line is?

So does that mean that in the McCabe example he can or can't shoot a model immune to slow and paralyze. And for that case, how about shooting a model that wont take damage but is not immune to slow and paralyze ie a Wastrel that's activated the Earths Elixir or the the Friekorps Strongarm Suit? Confusing...

No worries, terrible use of English again, given that Slow is an Effect and as I mentioned above, in English terms those two statements are equivalent, but I can see how it's intended to not "mean immune to slow, can gain the effect slow but does not lose any action points due to this effect" But yeah, back to the fizzle thing, how about the immune to slow/paralyze model, or is it only applied to spells as mentioned above (which again isn't in the FAQ, it just says actions?)

So the way I've always thought about it is that an Action is something you declare you're doing and the things that happen because of the action are the effects. So applying that to what you're saying is that if a model can not complete all "immediate" effects of an action it can not perform that action, however if an action with "delayed" effects results in a situation where the delayed effect can not occur, cancel the delayed effect only, not the entire action. Fair enough, if they had have written that I would have got it Still a fairly poor rule I think, and throws up a few strange situations ie Lucas McCabe can never shoot at a Shikome with his net gun as the Shikome is never effected by Slow or Paralyse and the net gun always inflicts damage+either slow or paralyse...

Right, now I'm really confused? At what point does the text in an action not become part of the action? And how do you tell the difference? Who's to say that Levi's action is to sacrifice the model and that the summon bit just explains how to remove that sacrificed model? That doesn't really make sense to me...

Except that it specifically uses an example of an action that has, as part of it, "an event would require a model to enter play...", then that event does not happen. The death Marshall is only half completing his action. How is the Levi example any different?

In your opinion it's still not right. I'm not disputing that you can not summon the waif, but you absolutely can do the action and complete any effect before that summon effect. I remember your post about Mei Feng an triggering an attack off rail walker with no constructs in range as an example of a fizzle attack. This is because you cast the spell, the first effect is to move to a friendly construct, if there is none it fizzles with no triggered attack. Exactly the same as this situation, it's the order of effects that's important. An effect that fizzles stops all others after it, but not before. In my opinion, obviously not yours

Yeah I disagree completely with you Ausplosions. I would read that the Levi player is not "attempting to do something they can't" by casting that spell, rather they are attempting to sacrifice an enemy model. An additional effect of successfully sacrificing that enemy model is that you summon a Waif, which can't be done and therefore that effect fizzles. This is in keeping with the Pine Box example given in the FAQ, as the Marshall has completed an action, of which the first effect was to bury the Vik. When they get to do the second effect of unburying, this can't be done and therefore that effect fizzles. You do not reset everything back to before the Death Marshall performed his Pine Box action. It even clearly states in a separate sentence that "If an event would require the model to enter play (such as a Pine Boxed third Viktoria coming into play when a Death Marshal is removed from play) the model does not enter play". This is exactly one of those events and therefore Levi can cast the spell regardless of the number of Waifs already in play, it just means that if he successfully casts it no additional Waifs enter play.

Kaeris' Resource management does not specify friendly or enemy as a targeting restriction, you simply remove a wound from each M&SU Member or Asset within 12inches and heal that same number. So Kaeris vs a Mei Feng Rail crew is a pretty devastating match up, given it's a (0) action with no resist, even an enemy Mei Feng has no defensive against giving up wounds to Kaeris. Is this the intention or was the friendly bit accidentally omitted?

I agree with Marcella and TheBurner. I don't understand why you'd think the effects of the Rider's cycle abilities are "always there but not active"? There's nothing anywhere that says something like that? The only thing that makes the effects look like seperate abilities is the way they're formatted and bolded, but definitely not the wording. Another comparable example is the Slate Ridge Mauler's Enrage, which means it gains Hard to Kill and +2 Cb when it has 4wds or less. This is exactly the same as the Dead Rider's Unnatural purpose ability in that at a certain number of wounds, you apply an effect. If aHoffman turned a Slate Ridge Mauler on 4wd into a construct, Lazarus could not assimilate Hard to Kill but could assimilate Enrage and apply the effects based on his own Wds. At least that's how it reads RAW...

Never mentioned it was my friends that didn't have a problem. And if I ever played someone who didn't believe them I'd show them the PDF on the official Wyrd website on either my iPad or iPhone that I have next to me each game, I wouldn't have to get "official" cards. Sounds pretty useful (and also eminintely convenient, much more so than 4 printed books and 300 odd physical cards to carry around and access). Anyway, all I'm saying is with such a fluid and dynamic rules set, and a vibrant community, why would you want to limit yourself and not use technology to enable better information updates and sharing in order to facilitate more money being spent on your core product of miniatures. Sticking to printed product is limiting and outdated, although not entirely without a market. Why not do both? Make the PDFs available and sell the printed stuff to people who prefer it?

I disagree that that's why you'd buy the cards. People never question the authenticity of my black and white printed out V2 cards that I use for minis purchased with V1 cards, what's the difference? Cheats will always be cheats and those who distrust will always distrust.

Only if they make better miniatures

It doesn't cost anything to update a PDF version of the card and put it on the website so players can print it out or use it on an portable device. They whole printing product for sale model is almost redundant anyway, PDF all of the rules and cards make them available for free on the web (cause cards and books get scanned and shared anyway) and concentrate on selling miniatures based on that is the way forward...

No ideas anyone? This hasn't come up before?