Drake

The difference here is that it is an action modifier not an effect. Armour is +1 and can stack as it is an effect with an + or -. Action modifiers don't stack. So you cant for instance have a Fast model (+1) and have Student of conflict give it a further (+1). However, Slow cancels out Fast, so you can give a Fast model Slow, they cancel each other out so the model is not affected by either now. It can then be affected by a further Slow or a new source of Fast. Hope that helps clarify, and supports previous posts on this subject.

That is fine in a 55SS list tournament where you can swap and change masters, but in a fixed Master tournament for example (such as the one next weekend in Cardiff), that wouldnt necessarily balance as well as once masters are chosen they are fixed. yes you can choose any minion, but you are still limited or at least hampered by the play style and natural synergies the master has and therefore the minions they generally want with them.

yes ofcourse, cant have 2 Pandora's in a single team! I would suggest the best team approach, as has been suggested by some, would be to have 1 player per faction in the team. Little to no pressure on Rare/Unique choices then. Although each individual team's approach to their make up of crews/factions is part of the fun of team play!

Good to see some variety, although understandably most people, myself included have a strong background in GW. Lonely Path, you actually have a couple of game systems I havent played, and I consider myself very well versed having played a wide variety of games, both tabletop and roleplay in and out of GW. Dark Future is one I have never actually seen yet, so may have to find out a bit more. A brand new system out now called Bushido could be interesting too, works on an activation basis similar to Malifaux, but the game system itself is quite different. But for those interested in skirmish size games that use the activation approach to keep tactical balance, could be another one to look into

Also, bear in mind the restrictions wont affect a lot of players, as I imagine a lot of teams will be bringing a crew per faction, so faction specific models limitations on Unique and Rare wont factor for them. It's only really the Outcast options that are affected, e.g. Jack Daw and Misaki. So should not be too limiting overall whilst still bringing together the team element of the tournament Magic has emphasised.

Hmm that would certainly make deployment more interesting. Highest flip has a good opportunity to make sure that of the other 2 Masters, they have to kill the "easier" one of the 2. Would make things interesting certainly and not affect balance. Also discourages the old player A v player B whilst Player C watches and picks on the weakest survivors....

Yes, Creepy Structure! I played Magic at the weekend, managed to kill Hamelin and get him down to a couple of stones, at which point he came back (fair enough) but proceeded to gain another 10 odd stones through multiple rat interactions for bonus soulstones. Absolutely crazy to watch! As for the suggestion Magic made about COnstructs and Gremlins being immune to Bully, might that push the balance the other way against crews made up solely of those types of models, e.g. Ophelia and Ramos. Maybe an alternative option is to make Bully a Wp-Wp duel where against Constructs and Gremlins Hamelin makes the duel at -xWp. Keeps in fluff, makes those crews playable against Hamelin while not being totally immune therefore still ensures Bully has an effect in the game. Just a thought and suggestion...

Id go with that. Along with a cast cost to do it. That seems reasonable. Without the cast cost their still isnt much of a cost involved as if he swaps a rat for the stolen, and stolen dies leaving a rat, Hamelin hasnt lost anything, so cast cost should be included too to help balance the summon stolen mechanic

How about any model that can inflict Slow or Paralized on them. That is very scary for Colette Crew, as they rely on their speed....

That could work Sliver, may have to try that. Seems straight forward on the faceof it. Although still have an issue in games with a defined attacker and defender like Line in the Sand....

As it is I think a free 3ss model out of thin air for the sake of a 1 action is not balanced. WIth regards my comparison about Colette, the Dove, although very useful,isnt a get out of jail free card like the stolen is. A different comparison would be Ramos and his spiders. samess cost of model being created, except in his case it takes a (2) action to get the resource to make one, and his (0) action to cast the spell, so that is almost his entire turn (apart from one more spell) taken to create a model from nothing. Hamelin can currently do that for just a (1) action... And for the record, my comment here is totally on topic so hopefully helps keep this thread on topic too.

Cool, sounds like a plan!

Yes Showgirls are awesome and Dead Hookers certainly do come cheap...enjoy the twisted and fun rollercoaster ride that Malifaux offers

The easiest ways to prevent that would be to: A) limit the type of advances you can get so that not all advances in the game can be achieved, say Bully for example. Or make some more powerful abilities cost more experience to gain C) which is a must anyway I would propose, capping total experience you can gain before you are maxed out. To mix it up you could even have a Master, which starts off with x number of advances or higher stat and a list of generic starting Master abilities, and also have Minions which are bog standard as noted above. To keep in line with factions, another option would be that for each faction, you can give each minion 1 characteristic from a set list, such as spirit/construct/Nephilim etc, so you start with some flavour in the crew already. Just some more thoughts for the brewing pot...

Compare Colette's casting of Dove. That requires an 8 card or higher to cast, and the cost of a Soulstone, aswell as an action (0). And that is for a 2ss model. I would vote for either; a) cc to cast + 1 or 2 ss or cc to cast and sac 1 model (and therefore no rat appearing as a result - completely removed)

Magic, is it worth linking this thread on the other global forum pages?....its early days yet but just a thought incase there are those that may be interested but don't look at the Europe page.... ...unless we trial it on a Europe basis first time round...

example generic stat line: W4/C6, Ht 2, Wp 4, Ca 4, Df 4, Wd 5, Cb depending on weapon but average starting weapon should prob be Cb4 for melee (range 1") and ranged (range 8"). No Triggers or bonus actions or spells. Just basic model. You could then earn soulstones during a campaign that you can spend on recruiting more minions, or buying them better weapons. Maybe something along the line of: At end of game flip a card. gain 0ss for a weak, 1ss for a moderate and 2ss for a severe. Either Joker for 3ss. If you last the game you get a single negative flip, draw a nuetral flip, won a single positive flip. You could gain experience towards gaining new abilities and triggers and spells, say by completing in game strategies/schemes and killing enemy models. You could suffer stat decreases/negative actions like slow based on in game deaths. Again based on flip. so if your model is killed in the game, flip a card end of game. Black Joker permanently dead (Use Soulstone user can reflip) weak suffer ability negative like Slow, moderate suffer stat decrease, severe suffer no impedement. Red Joker gain something like terrifying. Some initial thoughts anyway....any comments, suggestions or further ideas?

hmm this has been an interesting idea. She may be an ally, but keeps your friends close and your enemies closer me thinks...that is quite a big threat range, plus movement too...will have to watch out for that! Unless I just happen to have another Arcanist Master... :snow:

Yeah, some strategies work ok and those 2 are good examples. Same could be said for Reconnoiter, but others dont work too well, like Slaughter, as you have 2/3 opponents to compare with, and what happens with the middle scoring player? Line in the Sand too, with attacker and defender..and 3rd player?... Some way of having greater variety of playable games, or atleast a way of clearly identifying those games that are appropriate for multiplayer games would really help.

I'd be happy for 2 things.. 1. For a decent Campaign system. not necessarily map based, although that would be awesome, but just a system to use. E.g. win a game, next game you start with a bag of soulstones in your deployment zone. An Experience system incorporated into this would be cool too. I love Necromunda for the addictive nature of developing your gang. Could something similar be done for a crew in Malifaux? 2. A more structured and fun way of playing multi player games. i.e. 3 or 4 player games where every man/woman is out for themselves, not a tag team Brawl. Quite often their is a 3rd person wanting to play a game without an opponent, and although you can play 3 way game, the mechanics of the schemes/strategies are not aligned for that type of set-up. So yeah a simple way to manage ideally 3 way, but by default 4 way too.

It is a fun game, and cheap to get started. And unlike some game systems that hook you in on the cheap and then you have to pay lots more money to make your force properly playable, this game you only buy things you want, because you want to, not because you need to. You invest as much or as little as you choose. But like dgraz and Ciaran said, you will probably choose to buy plenty over time. Welcome to the crazy, addictive and awesome world that is Malifaux!

Bummer, so any spell can target her :disappoin

I think Magic's comment about Sac/kill was referring mostly to Grudge and Protege, rather than Kidnap. The first 2 would be fairly useless against Hamelin really,as he can kill his own models before you get the chance kill kill/finish them off.

See, im going for getting one of the hard games out of the way first!