E.T.A. Hoffman

True about the clouds. But, I think the point is that Misaki's basic troops are fairly resilient to being shot at. Yes, the austringers are still trouble. But, by having los blocking abilities and negative to sh attack native on the model + cover. You're looking, I think, a presence of anti-shooting that in a tournament setting the only real reason to declare Misaki as a master over the other choices in the outcasts would be against Guild. Guild do tend to rely on range more than anyone else. If we can't say that her's is the better options for protecting one's self against range/guild then I don't think there's a real place for her outside non-competitive games. Which would be a shame because I think she really fun.

I think someone here said it best. Yan Lo doesn't do anything that another Resser master doesn't already do better. So its like... YO! Why Yan Lo Bro?

Hey All, So I've been trying real hard to make Misaki work. And I think she does, pretty well. Super fun to play for sure. But, where does she fit into a competitive list? Daw, Schill, and Levi have already proven to be very good. Then where do I put Misaki as an Outcast into my tournament pool? Well, after much laboring with her I think I found it. Anti-Guild. If you're talking about killing power, well just hire Levi. If you need board control, then take Daw. If you need anti-resser/neverborn and hard to remove models, you go with Schill. But, what if you're playing against Guild? Guild pose a potential threat against Levi because they have the best options for sniping waifs. Now, Daw and Schill have no reason to fear Guild. But, if I'm looking to maximize my strengths versus their weaknesses, then I'd have to say go with Misaki and friends. Mostly because: 1) She's bullet proof and very agile so she can get into combat sooner. 2) Torkage can spam LoS blocking markers and when alone give themselves a negative to being shot at. It's not a lot, but I think it's enough. I can't think of an other Outcast crew that natively has so much anti-range. You can fill in the spots with convicts with more bullet proof. You can also take trappers and unbury the torkage real close to those hard to get ranged models. Arguments for or against? I dont see what else her crew brings to the table that other crews in her faction can already do. So if this is wrong lol then man poor girl got's nothing to call her own.

Gremlins do got me worried. I've read though em and sometimes im like....who balanced this? Whose did this?! But, we'll have to see what happens when people start playing them.

Be there! YO!

That's more to the point I'm looking for. I like the idea that as a unique summoner, he only summons models back that he already paid for. It supports his fluff of being a return from the dead kind of guy. But, yeah with 3 chi he is still only ok. Still not much to do though

Well I agree that the last blossoms are pretty thinned out. But, back to topic. Yan Lo just doesn't have any really exciting purpose in the game. Sure he's hard to kill but then what? His offense if very much meh. He can give are armor 2 but at the cost of his precious chi. Its really good but pretty situational, you won't probably do it every turn. Lightening dance is ok but its really an attack that's meant to get enemy models into combat with friendly without putting the friendly in harms way. But, the models that he brings dont really need his kind of support. Izamu and Yin for example are already pretty darn hard to kill. Plus those are the only models he can resummon. So again, its like yanlos abilities just compoundly make his already hard to kill models harder to kill. Its not bad but its just kind of boring. I think if he had access to a decent melee 6 attack it would probably be fine. or if he support his crew in other ways. Giving out actions or movement or something. And fury of the yomi isn't that great. Because it only nets 1 extra ap. Sure, it could be really good if you needed it at the right moment. But that just it, all of his abilities seem just very situational. I think more summoning could help or better crew buffs.

So, I've really been digging into Yan Lo and he's just too...boring. He doesn't really do anything. Its like, he can be super hard to kill. But, he's not that good at much and most of his buffs are super selective and dont really help his ancestor models. I think what would make him much better and more interesting to play would be to give him more ancestors or make ashigaru ancestors. It would be cool because it would make him more like a resser master with the ability to summon more. Plus its unique because unlike all other resser masters his summons only work on models he's already hired. This plus his survivability would make him way cooler. Just my though cents

I"ll just say that doing an alpha with Levi this way can be well worth the loss of one waif. Sure he's not making one and he'll have low wounds. Ideally, you'll try and kill him yourself just so he has full wounds next turn. (Or if your opponent is silly they'll kill him for you, why they would idk because levi with no wounds is a neutered levi). But, if that earns you a kill on a key model early game then its absolutist worth it. Take a trapper or two in your list so you have the anchor who is nowhere near danger. Sure, you'll have to play smart the rest of the game but some crews rely on their key models too much to lose them turn 1.

Thanks!!

Levi didnt win me Adepticon. The outcasts did. I ran Schill once, Daw twice, and Levi twice. The reason I didnt run him every round is because he is not the end all be all. Against Neverborn and extraction I think Schill is better. Against Guild I think Levi is at a big disadvantage. Daw is better board control then Levi because Levi has to keep his waifs and his anchors safe. I agree with the Polishsausage. Levi has a low learning curve to play and a high learning curve to beat. You have to also remember that Levi must use all his AP to kill a model. He's not like a melee beater who can flip a severe, trigger onslaught, kill his target, charge another, trigger onslaught,ect ect. Levi is good because he has little fear of dying and can make a model as he erases one thing from the board. But he also suffers from losing the initiative because he relies on that positive for damage. Without channeling, he cannot ignore cover and he's damage will likely be weak's of 2. Fast crews and crews that ignore LoS are especially good at getting to Levi's waifs. Without them Levi loses tons of his potency.

Levi I hesitate to throw out too much as an example because many masters fall to his offense power. Plus he can easily teleport 10" turn one, gain fast, and shoot a vick practically in her deployment zone. Its nearly a moot point. But, the Viks lack the survivability to go two rounds. They get one round of bash, maybe two if they are really lucky. Even with a good player it feels like they are too easily countered. We all know the slingshot trick. So its not useful. But take it away and what do they have?

Then you are a fool! lol jk different pokes and for different folks

Yeah but I dont think the exchange is worth it. A cerberus can leap pretty easily. That is all the survivability he needs. Because when he charges, chomps twice with pos attack and damage and triggers (indefinitely?!) his extra attack and the leaps away he has just demonstrated a far greater killing potential than the Blessed's defense is worth. I think when you subtract her survivability from the cerberus than compare that difference to how much deadlier the cat is, its like why would i make that trade? The only thing, ONLY thing she has is a cb 7. If you really feel like you need an extra 7 stat (which lets be honest a 7 is a special thing unto itself). She should be 8 stones!

I think whirlwind is too easily countered. I think extraction is probably the first best strategy to take them in. Then Guard the Stash. Not sure how a summoning dreamer player struggles though. Id' say in all the games I played Dreamer Vs. Viky this happens. Drew a few 12 or 13. Stitched blast away with Gamble Your Life. Dead Sword Vik. Or LCB Goes chomp chomp. Because I dont clump together when I see sword vik on the table. I spread out and keep the damage to a min. I also don't fight her for the model she wants to kill. I'll let sword vik have teddy or widow weaver. Because sword vik has to commit her master and herself to get there without Dreamer striking first. Then, after they took a model that frankily I dont need becasue Dreamer summons like a BWOSS! i use stitched to finish the task. The Viks definetly hit hard, harder than probably anyone. This is true. But Def 6 and 7 wounds is not enough. Even with a positive flip. The only thing that keeps them alive the round after they attack is if they get lucky and their opponent drew no good cards. But, if he did, then all he has to do is screen something, wait for the attack, then use those good cards on a attack stat 6 or 7 with good low damage or no stone prevent and boom. All is done. Also, lets talk Meta. Lots of Levi action now a days. Levi can easily kill a vik in a single activation. Few masters can get taken down that quickly.

Then I shall KEEP asking!

Idk, i feel like or 9 stones shes meh. I wish she had just a little extra to make her desirable. I think she needs some 0 upgrade somewhere. Just not impressed.

I'm wondering if you high estimation of their power is relative to the play groups you are from. Just as I wonder if my perception of their weakness is from the skills from within my own playgroup. I would say that me and a few of my friends are some of the strongest players in our area and we dont play Viks and we also stomp them pretty hard when we play against them. I'm going to take up the mantle of playing them to see exactly how strong they are versus things like Levi, Dreamer, Lilith, Kirai and all the other master I think are stronger then the sisters are. Mostly I was wondering if anyone else thought they were as under powered as I do.

As the title says; Are the Vicky's Weak? When compared to similar masters they seem to be lacking something. Best examples I can think of are Lilith, Dreamer, Jacob Lynch. Lilith is similar in that she is fast, hard hitting, low on wounds. But, her and her crew are one of the strongest in the game IMO. Tangled Shadows is a part of that. It gives Lilith an ability to hamstring an important model, grow, and lower the enemy model count on turn 1. Between that, growth, and black blood, you got a model with slightly more killing power and 3 more wounds (i think might be 4). Sure she doesnt get a free henchman but then again who cares she clearly does not need it. Doh! Forgot about her card draw! With the right uppgrade and totem she's drawing 11 cards when she stones. Dreamer has a free henchman. But, his henchman is basically unkillable. Big difference there. But that's not the real similarity I see. Really, the comparison is drawn that both Chompy w/ Melee Expert Upgrade (so none significant models summoning for the Boy) and the Vikies suffer from the same probably. They are extremely vulnerable the turn they attack. When I play LCB, what I found was that him coming out and killing a model usually left him in a place where when he gets killed the Dreamer is left surrounded by enemy models. Unless you snipe that one lose hanging fruit which in most cases is not where the real threats are. Yet, the Dreamer some some answer for this, that is Daydreams. They can pull LCB back from harms way. AND the Effigy of Whatever plus the Dreamer specific upgrade add an additional ability to place LCB back from harmsway. So clearly the Devs saw that this build was weaker than the summon for that and added more options to fix it. Meanwhile, where the Viks are concerned, they have no retraction. They jump out and smash then have to sit and weather the return attacks. The only way the Viks will do enough damage when they pop out to make the reprisal not that horrifying is if her opponent was silly enough to clump together to give lots of whirlwind triggers. Then there's Lynch who has a free henchman, who can be summoned, and actually has a few tricks for getting both out and into combat. And that's what leaves me feeling like the Vicks need some boost. They don't want for speed or hitting power so my suggestion is not to enhance that. I also dont think just adding summoning to the list because honestly its a cop out. Plus, sword vik is too killy to be resummonable. Instead, I think they need a way to hit and run. Much like Marcus, whose crew is not very hard to kill but they make up for that by pretty much all having some kind of 0 action leap. I feel that a mechanic, upgrade or model, needs to be added that gives the Viks a way to get out of combat at the end or after at least 1 activation that lets them at least move a few inches out of harms way. In all the games I see with them, the only games they do well is when whirlwind is maximumized. If it isn't, then whatever model they kill when they Dragons Bite or whatever, is just not enough to offset getting pretty much murdered for it. I mean, a single stitched, a 6 stone model, can reliable kill a whole sister in one activation.

Well that's too bad lol but I guess Levi can't have everything! lol thanks yall

Hey all, Question, does Levi get pos’ attack and damage to BOTH attacks from channel a charge action? His ability does say that he gets it for all duels related to the action. And honestly I cannot think of any example of an action that would generate multiple duels. But, there are so many examples of where bonuses on a charge don’t apply to all attacks, namely the focus condition. Yet, I feel those examples are all mutually exclusive. I know this has been posted about once before but I didn’t feel that there was any real conclusion. Cheers!

Ah well that makes more sense sorta. Still, wish it was at gencon :(

I think Nova Open wasn't the best choice. Gencon is less than a month before it. So a lot of poeple who might have been interested won't be going because they'd still be broke from gencon. Also I thought Wyrd was based in Indiana which is also strange. Oh well ;(

I won the moral victory for showing up and going 3 n 0 after 2 nights of hardcore partying! Thanks for running another killer tourny!

So, what do you DM's do when a player character does die? Ive been troubled by this. So there's what 5 fated steps. Let's say you have 4 players, thats about 20 sessions to complete each fated step. Say you get 10 in and a character dies. What do you do? There's nothing that brings a character back. This creates a problem for group. Does the player drop? Does he roll a new character and start at fate step 1. Does he roll a new character and skip to the same fate step as the other characters? Does the player just continue playing his character? The game is too narrative I think to continue properly after a death. Suggestions on how to handle this?