naiatoc

I've heard this from more than one source. Basically he makes them fast, then they use fast to our pace him. Then he spends a few turns trying to catch up and join the battle. Personally I don't think Hans is very good either. I don't think he's as effective as the Trapper, and I rarely even use the trapper with my Vics. (Although there are times he really does have his place!)

You made a good choice picking the Victoria's over Ophelia! (Well... that's just my personal preference anyway...) I agree that dropping Hans for a Convict Gunslinger is a good idea. I have not run the Student of Conflict yet so I can't talk about how effective that is. But I will say Taelor and 2 Ronin make an excellent core for your crew. At 35ss I usually run Victoria 1 Victoria 2 Taelor Ronin Ronin Convict Gunslinger then either a third Ronin, Misaki, or the Librarian.

Interesting you say that. I've looked over them and wasn't impressed. How do you run them to make them effective?

I recently finished painting my Kirai crew (took me long enough!) and played a few games. So far my entire Kirai collection looks like this: Kirai Ikyrio Datsue-Ba Lost Love 5x Seishin 2x Gaki 2x Onryo 2x Shikome I have not felt the need for more than that when factoring in summoning. I summon 1 or 2 Gaki and feel that is enough. Some people say you should have access to 4, but I've never felt the need for more than the 1 or 2 I had in play at any one time. Also, I loose a Shikome (or 2) early on and have managed to summon 1 of them back. My list is somewhat typical, I think. I ran the same 35ss list in all 4 games I've played. Kirai Lost Love 5x Seishin 2x Shikome Datsue-Ba The place to expand from here is having more starting options, ie Dead Rider, Insidious Madness, etc. edit: now that I reread your opening post, I have exactly what you have plus Lost Love!

That's just what I was thinking. Flight and speed make them great hunters. Or I can use them for taking objectives (that is how you win the game after all!) I'm glad for the feedback, because sometimes good theory and good in practice are two different things... I like reading what you guys have to say!

I haven't used Desperate Mercenaries yet so I can't speak to that point. But I do have some advice for the rest of your list. Drop Hans and pick up the Librarian. That would give you 5ss. Which is not bad. You can use the Librarian to heal the Vicks back up. Make sure to save her activation until you need her. Too many times one of the Vicks has gone from full health to dead before the Librarian can get to heal her. Also, when your playing this list think of Von Shill as your Master. (Technically he's not, but get in that frame of mind.) Save your ss for Von Shill's Slow to Die action and heal him back up. You'll loose the Vicks without ss to boost their defense, but you don't mind, Von Shill is your heavy hitter.

I recently started collecting and painting a Kirai crew. After reading through all the spirits to see what my options are I have a couple of issues with understanding the special shikome rules. First. I assume Single Minded and Hunting Partner stack if one shikome Partners with the other. Essentially giving ++ to the attack and damage flips. However, it does NOT get Fast x2. Right? Second. If I take 2 and give each one a different Single Minded target, then it would be stupid for one to Hunting Partner the other as that one would be unable to attack anything. (It can't attack anything except it's Single Minded target and it is also unable to attack anything except its Hunting Partner target, so if it attacks either target it is breaking one rule or the other. Therefore it is just indecisive and can't attack either.)

Bishop is useful in higher point games. If your doing, for example, a 50ss game, then his high cost is somewhat mitigated over the whole. Even if your not interested in the Freikorps, I would still get the Librarian. Her healing is very useful. Very useful! The Viks are fairly fragile. And if you just can't stand the look of the Freikorps, then at least buy her stat card off the website and proxy in a different miniature. (I know a guy who proxies the gunslinger for the same reason: doesn't like the fig.)

What you have listed is almost exactly what I started out with. The only exception is: I don't run the student of conflict. I recently expanded into the Freikorps. They work very well with the Victorias. So to answer you original question. I would either go with what you have listed plus the Freikorps Librarian. Or I would go a completely different direction and go with what Serigala said. Both are very reasonable plans.

What about Robert Carlyle (Dr. Rush from Stargate Universe) as Seamus? I was pretty impressed with him on that show. That dude can act. Scottish accent. Check. Arrogant demeanor. Check. Disheveled ghoulish looks. Check!

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Christina Hendricks as Lady Justice :1:

You're looking to be convinced on playing the Viks. Here it is in a nutshell! You already own the convict and Johan. Both of which I use. The convict gunslinger is just awesome! Plain and simple. As for Johan, I use him as a mini Taelor. Those two together can anchor a line. Then my other guys can go where I need them most. (However, I have to admit, I haven't been using Johan nearly as much now that I got my Von Shill crew painted.)

Very true! I played a small game with a buddy one time, just teaching a new guy how to play. He had only played one game previously. He used his box set (he had Lilith) plus a totem. He also had a couple of young guys to upgrade to. I had a few guys, no soulstones. He stomped me! It was embarrassing. I think it was mostly due to not having any stones. He charged my Vics hitting them hard and there was nothing I could do about it. I assumed with the Librarian I could heal up a little, but my girls died in one activation before I could heal em.

I hold it. That is, until turn 6. Then I don't mind dropping it. I draw a fresh hand, knowing it's in my discard pile. If the game goes on another turn, oh well, but if the game ends then I've maximized my hand while still keeping the black joker from coming up.

That's pretty much the best there is! I've run variations of it, but I keep coming back to this configuration as my standard. I agree. I like using Johan despite what other people say about him... However, sometimes he feels redundant to me. By that I mean, he dishes out the damage, but that's not what the Vicks need more of. They need more flexibility, more variety. For example a trapper or Haemilin.

I see a lot of people posting lists (in this thread and the other one in the Outcast board). They seem to be mostly 35ss lists that are very tight and tough. One question I have for everyone is: how often do you deviate from your standard list? A lot of people run the Librarian and Trapper, but, for example, I can see the Specialist being useful against Seamus or Nicodem with lots of zombies. How often would you tailor your list to your opponent, or would you just play your standard list?

That is the only spell on any of the Victoria crew that I have never used. I've managed to get another Victoria, but only once. Even Taelor's spell I used one time just to keep a guy off an objective.

The list looks super solid. I would definitely keep Taelor, she's a tank. My only concern is the Student. I'm not impressed with this option, but I know a lot of people are. I love the fact that you've got 7 souls stones, and if you take the Student out for another model, even something as cheap as a Ronin, you loose part of that pool. What about a Desperate Merc in place of the Student? I have no experience with them, but that keeps your pool up and gives you another sword.

Beyond the Victoria box set, I think the most useful are the Ronin and the Convict Gunslinger. I consider them to be essential. In probably the last half dozen games I've played, I've used the Gunslinger and one or two Ronin. Misaki and Hamelin are also useful, but less so. Get 'em... use 'em... but they're not your staple like the Ronin and Gunslinger. I am also in the process of painting up the Von Shill box. Everyone says the librarian and trapper works well with the Vics, and I tend to believe them! Hans, Killjoy, and the Student of Conflict may get mentioned. I say put them at the bottom of your 'to buy' list.

I see not everyone agrees on Misaki's role! When I said I had success with her for the first time I was specifically referring to her range increase for her spear. It was nice being within my melee range but outside of everyone else. I attempted to draw my opponent out with it, which is something neither Taelor or Victoria could have done in that situation... In fact, in my case I used Misaki as the bait and Taelor as the trap. However, I'm not saying that reason alone is worth taking her, but it does raise some interesting possibilities...

I understand the cheating a severe on undead and neverborn, and I understand the cost. But, I'm not sure how you get a 19 range and a 4/4/7 damage line. I made sure I was reading the version 2 Hans card but I'm still confused.

I played a 35ss game last night against Collett. I managed a solid win. I think the main reason was that he used the speed of his guys to get in quick, while I kept my guys mostly together. So when he made it in with a guy or two, several of my guys could pound on one of his. Another interesting point is that for the first time I actually liked using Misaki. She was on one side of a building with Taelor and the Gunslinger. His Coryphee were out of reach behind the building and I couldn't reach them. So I cast air extending Misaki's reach to 6 inches, then moved her up just a little. She struck at them missing both times (I think). But she was in a great place. If he moved in against Misaki then I could activate Taelor and move her in. Essentially I was baiting him. However, he didn't take the bait. He went around the other side of the building. But on that side he had to deal with the two Victorias. So I was happy either way! Long story short, using Misaki's range increase let me lead my advance with her and use her as bait to draw my target out.

A buddy of mine plays Ramos and we've come to the same conclusion. My advice to him was to use Hoffman's guys. The Hunter and the Watcher in particular caught my eye. Do Ramos players typically take some Guild constructs, or does that not help much?

Thats a good list, tight and very efficient. However, as already mentioned I would only run it at the 35ss level. Von Shill and Taelor are too much to fit both in a 30ss list... Fortunately the next game I have coming up is a 35ss game. Unfortunately none of my Freikorp guys are painted!

True. However, I think with Marcus you can proxy miniatures better than with any other Master. Finding generic monsters in another line and using them will be the cheapest option yet. I second this. Playable right out of the box with only the addition of a totem.