Zwergenkrieger

What´s the deal here? I can see the benefit of a terror causing beast in conjunction with insidious madnesses, but why should this work well wit vonSchill in a shotty list? Is there any synergy I didn´t notice? ZK

Mmhh, why no Doppelganger? He may copy a ranged weapon and gives you some other utility.

In addition, only the direct target will fall back, not all models under the template!

Pretty nice thread here! It seems to me that I´m not the only person who troubles to get enough out of Doppelgangers 8 SS. I heavily fail to find a good use of the Doppelganger in EVERY round. IMO you need to get a model with a good ranged weapon to utilize DGs potential in early turns. To add something worthy: Because the Doppelganger often is your most expensive minion sometimes it´s a good idea to copy Stitched Togethers Does not Die! if your opponent chose certain schemes in which he has to kill your most expensive minion. I have to disagree here! In fact, you can´t control the intiative with Doppelganger in a constructive way. You always have to "give" that negative twist to your opponent no matter what. That means you´ll win initiative in turns you rather like to give initiative to your opponent. IMO Insidious Madness is a better way to influence the flow of battle due to sacrificing it.

Well, I found some Teddy-heads to convert Wicked Dolls into beautiful looking Stitched Togethers. On the other hand I decided that I won´t run the Nightmare Teddy as lord Chompy Bits, because that model is just so freaking expensive. With my Puppetwars Teddies already bought, the crew would cost me around 200 Euros if I´d go with Nightmare Teddy. That´s way to much IMO. Therefore I decided to scratch build a Horror-Teddy as Lord Chompy Bits. But right now I refuse to play Dreamer and instead started painting a Lilith crew. Reasons were the fact that Dreamer is named to be unfun to play against and his rather complex rulesset which is a bane if you don´t regularly play. ZK

Thanks for your answers guys! Well, I already noticed these more different playstyles Lady J seems to offer, especially with Lucius in her crew, but unfortunately I didn´t found a crew which I really like to play. Definetely I´m going to run a Lady J, Lucius crew in the future that brings lots of Guild Hounds, but actually I couldn´t find some dog miniatures I really like the look of. Therefore I went with Lilith for my next level gaming experience and I already got some sweet Nephilims to run with her, although I have to wait until next month when her alternate sculpt will be released. Thanks all

Hi all, what´s your opinion on both, the power and viability of Crews led by either Lady J or Lilith? I like to start a crew based on a rather plain rules set, because I can´t play that often and therefore I wonder if I will ever master these rather tricky masters with all their synergies and special rules. I got a glance on both Lady J and Lilith because I dig their alternate sculpts. In both factions there are several minions I also like the look of and both factions offer additional masters I could expand in. The problem I have with Lilith is that endless grumbling Neverborn being overpowered and I don´t like to hear those complaints any more (I actually play Pandora, you´ll know what that means). Who can give me a short overview on both masters? What´s their strenghts, what´s their weaknesses? What´s about their avatars? Which avatar would you name to be more fun to play? Thanks ZK

It´s one evil crew here! Plain slaying power, plain rules, plain fun! I have to try it sometimes. One thing I´m toying around with it VonSchill with Pandora. The reason is: Pandora really doesn´t need many soulstones on her own, meanig VonSchill won´t compete. In addition, you basically get 2 super heroes who are able to do some pretty cool things all on their own.

Yeah, that´s a great idea! I have to have a look on the Wicked Dolls. I can even convert the Wicked Dolls to represent some other cuddly toy like rabbits or the like. I don´t think that such a crew has to be built on Teddies alone, some war of cuddly toys is just as sweet!

As written above, I like to use my Puppet Wars Teddies as stand-ins for the Daydreams.

Hi all, I´m recently thinking about getting one nightmare Teddy just to use it as a count as Lord Chompy Bits. The reason is that I totally dig the Teddy and like to paint and play a Teddy themed force led by the Dreamer, ie Dreamer 3 Daydreams 3 Teddies OR 2 Teddies and 2 Stitched Well, to use as Daydreams I already got some Pupet Wars Teddies and the Nightmare Teddy would complement that model pool rather nicely. Do you think an opponent would be upset by this? An additional problem arises with the rest of the Crew. 3 Teddies might be a bit boring, but Stitched Togethers – although being Dolls – do not seem to fit the model theme. I could convert these into more Teddy-looking dolls, though I´m not sure wether opponents would accept that conversion. An other idea is to run Baby Kade because he bears his litte bear to battle, but being the only model in the crew that has to walk by his own feet, I´m not sure if he is any good gamewise. His "Where´s Teddy" rule seems to be potent, but being a (2) action it is of rather limited use. One tactic I can see is jumping in due to this rule at the end of a turn, staying Harmless and beat the crap out of the opponent next turn – if Kade is able to beat the crap out of something at all! To sum it up: I´m willing to run a Teddy themed army no matter the cost or effectiveness – just pure Teddy-beat-down. So what´s your opinion? Any other ideas / advice? ZK

Hi all, just to revive this thread: What about von Schill? Not only is he named to be a force on his own, he can also be played in conjunction with Pandora. That´s some kind of double outcome if I´d get a von Shill crew. Though I don´t know anything about good minions for him.

I don´t think so. It would still target said model. If you like to Transposition Lilith, just use a Totem or even a Sorrow which is linked to her.

Are you sure that Pandora is THE problem for your opponents? The way I understand that Neverborn faction tells me that it really doesn´t matter what master you bring if your base intention is to only bring the minions that are named as being overpowered. The only way I can see Pandora supporting this crew is some Mental Anguish/Pacify/Incite/Persistant Distraction/Lure shenanigans to heavily manipulate the flow of battle. If done right, I imagine that your opponent gets that feeling of being part in a game played by just one person – you! That´s a style of play I always try to avoid because such a game can´t be named "game". ZK

Well, I´d say go and try this combo. IMO these forums –as well as any other forums– just echos some pretty obvious or popular opinions. And these opinions once were creted by some players who discovered the dirty tricks and powerful combos just by playtesting them. Only a small base of players are gritty enough to think about new ways and to test them. Don´t become disencouraged by the forums. ZK

Well, what´s the problem with the new Alps? I really like to know this, because I can just partly understand that. IMO Alp bomb was all about knocking out key models of your opponent. I can´t see how the change to insignificant is able to change this much. Or are there other rules changes I don´t know? HTG

I just play Pandora and nothing else, though I´m a newbe myself. Reason I chose Pandora was Baby Kade and Sorrows which are in her boxed set, so I just bought the set and went with it. In opposite of a lot of players outside I don´t think Pandora is broken or especially unfun to play against. I really can´t see a reason why she should be worse than any other powerful master who allows for nasty (or even dirty) tricks. And there are many tricks out there! I think that part of a negative play experience when playing against Pandora is that feeling that you are at the mercy of Pandora´s style ofplay or set of rules. Ie I see a lot of her rules are able to cause that "What should I do against this?". And IMO that´s what Fetid Strumpet called Therefore if your opponent is willing to use all of the dirt tricks he has access to, feel free to do the same with Pandora too. Don´t feel bad about it. Be it Somer´s Mosquito shenanigans to outactivate any player and to cause wounds you can´t defend against, be it the Austringer´s "I´ll shoot you whereever you hide", be it Kirai´s force of recycling spirits which are also hard to bring down, there are lots and lots of unfun game mechanics in that game. But IMO these are only unfun if you look at them in a vacuum. I feel that the dirty tricks are something this game is made of or at least based upon. When I look back to warmachine which I played before switchng to Malifaux, those dirty tricks regularly upset me, because due to the activation order of that game you couldn´t really defend against these dirty tricks and therefore they often caused the game to end within 2 rounds. That is negative play experience IMO! Malifaux is totally different! Almost no dirty trick is able to end the game within 1-2 rounds. And that´s why I´m ok with them. Regardless of all these tricks I still enjoy the games and I often feel that the outcome of a game is still open. At least you´re able to go for your shemes even if the strategy is already lost which causes you to still fight, which can still give you a thrilling game. That´s why I don´t feel guilty to bring Pandra! Therefore, go and enjoy her! One thing you should have in mind: you need experience to successfully play with and against Pandora, therfore if your opponent lacks that experience, don´t go for the dirty tricks to not encourage your opponent! Just adapt to the overall powerlevel of your local meta and everything is fine. Oh and by the way, Pandora with her boxed set and an additional Teddy is anything but powerful! Noone should ever complain about such a crew!

Would you like to give us a deeper insight? While I was playing my last tournament (and well, the first too), I got the idea to field a neverborn army with a high model count. The fact that such a kind of army also negates some VP to the foe is something I never thought about! ZK

Well, I´m a newbe when it comes to Malifaux, playing only Pandora. And all I have to say, to get the most out of Pandora you have to earn a lot of experience with her. That being said: yes, Pandora is annoying and offers some dirty tricks, but you still have to master her! She is by no means a master who wins a game by just setting the pice of pewter on the table. I think her bad reputation comes from the things that highly experienced players can do with her. If you don´t study all her dirty tricks, noone should ever complain about her. HTG

Hi all, in another thread some people recommended that I should have a look on Lady J and after browsing these Guild forums, I noticed some models that seem to offer an intresting style of play to her. I built a list out of these models and models I´ve already seen in action and like their performance: Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap Lady Justice -- 6 Pool Lucius [10ss] Guild Austringer [5ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Witchling Stalker [4ss] Witchling Stalker [4ss] Well, the Lucius/Lady J combo might be common sense on these forums, therefore I don´t like to elaborate. One question though: Is a Student of Conflict really necessary for that Lady J slingshot? Or is it able to go without one? Guild Austringer I really hate to be on the recieving end of, therefore I have to include one! Those Guild Hounds seem to be rather versatile minions which do well in different scenarios. And I like fast moving models. Withling Stalkers I also faced on the table and I have to say I´m rather impressed by them. These are some annoying dudes to play against! Last but not least, Lady J (alternate sculpt), Lucius, Austringer and Witchling Stalkers are some of the most beautiful models out there, therefore I´ll enjoy the painting too! What do think about this list? Is it a one trick pony or does it offer some tricks as well as ease of use? ZK

Thanks to all! Seems to be Lillith and Lady J for the master centric melee power then... Uhh, and Lady J got that freaking awesome new sculpt these days. Sweet! But has Lady J access to powerful minions too? Or will she be the workhorse of her crew? That´s a pretty good summary. I think of all these points only No 1(wp based duels) and No 3 (Master centric offensive power) I really like to change. That Fast/Hit and Run playstyle I like to keep because that´s the style of play I highly favour in all tabletop games. In fact, I´m highly interested in a crew with some nasty minios who bring the pain to the opponent rather than supporting the master so that the master himself slays the opponent. Hoffman and Lucius are 2 masters I really like the look of and I often thought about starting a crew. Especially Hoffman is able to field some pretty sweet killing machines who are able to do the dirty work if I´ve got the right information. Mmhh, I think I have to have a deeper look into Zoraida. One thing I don´t like about her: the Zoraida/Collodi combo seems to be one of the commonly most hated crews these days and I want to stay away from another "beardy" crew that will often be called overpowered... Sure, there might be some other ways to field her though... One question though: What´s with the Ortegas?

Hi all, Although this seems to be a Neverborn related post on the first glance I posted here because I like to know the opinion of non Neverborn players too. Reading the post about starting a new crew in the new year I suddenly started to think about which crew I would like to start this year. And the answer has to be: the opposite of my willpower based Pandora crew. Now that´s my question to you folks: What the opposite of Pandora when it comes to style of play? Please write down your opinion and elaborate! I like to hear as many opinions as possible. Thanks ZK

New Year – New Crew! It´s an amazing idea! Well, I like to start ith a new crew myself, but unfortunately I still try to master Pandora, therefore I think I´won´t start a second crew in the near future. Though there are some amazing models out there which I like to build a crew around. Good luck! ZK

Hi all, I´m thinking about running a Dreamer list soon and because I have 2 Insidious Madness which I really like to play with, I think about using them with the Dreamer too. Therefore I like to ask wether Insidious Madness is any good with the Dreamer or not. I´ve never seen the Dreamer being played nor do I fully understand his set of rules and therefore I don´t see why he is named to be overpowered. The last thing I like to have is an over-overpowered list. So if Insidious Madness bring the Dreamer to new heights, I think I´ll refuse to play them. The intended list is as follows: Neverborn Crew - 35 - Scrap The Dreamer -- 5 Pool 2 Daydreams [4ss] Insidious Madness [4ss] Insidious Madness [4ss] Stitched Together [5ss] Teddy [9ss] Teddy [9ss] This list is basically built upon the models I like to field. That´s why there are 2 Teddies and 2 Insidious Madnesses. Teddy never did anything good for me, so I want to run him in a pair to get something worth out of him – at least out of one of these two. I dig the Insidious Madness mainly because of its speed and the possibility to gain initiative when you like to have it. How does it work with the Dreamer? Last:. Is that list something you´d like to play with or to play against? Thanks for your replies. ZK

It´s a well painted force! ZK