Lucidicide

I think Aberration has a pretty good summary there. Factions have specific feels, and Masters can send you for a loop within that Faction. I think you'll find a lot of people who argue that the Outcasts are really more like a few small Factions as they have very limited Crew selections... It's probably best to look at it Master by Master and decide what you want, and you can use the above to help you out with that some.

Agreed. This is new to me. Our resident Gremlin player has never won a game by being overpowered. It is usually an uphill battle where another turn would almost always mean doom.

Mmm. Good point. Hadn't thought it through enough. That'll teach me to pop on and respond like I know things, haha.

She'll probably be better once we finally get Errata 2.0. Link has changed, and I think she can no longer use her own models to move across the board, etc. It looks like they have paid attention to her.

I think the easiest way to deal with it is to change Rusty Alice's wording, if you're supposed to get the extra cards in hand, to just increase her maximum hand size. Since this is not the wording and it is just draw 2, Kel's ruling makes more sense based on what I see in the book.

I might be mistaken, but I believe that both can be true. Leveticus has the normal maximum size, so that when you draw 2 cards with Rusty and are at 2, you can keep them. Leveticus' specific restriction is on drawing cards. If Leveticus is getting a full hand, he'd have to discard down. Ramos will always get the full hand + 2, and therefore will always have to discard down. That's how I read it.

Thanks for the write-up. Freakin' Pandora.

Welcome!

Welcome to the game! Glad you've got some people to play with. I love how quickly you can go through the game as you learn the models more, giving plenty of time after work to get in a game!

Huge threads just mean it's a good topic (or where ever it went off topic is a good topic).

I shall take it upon myself to reply to your post even though you were talking to god I believe the idea is that he might not be Slow, but he probably also won't have the 6" summoning 'movement.' Therefore he might gain more actions but actually end up farther away for it, which might be a problem in its own right. This might make people play Leveticus and the Waifs differently, thus offsetting the potential gain of no longer being Slow. At least, that's how I see it.

Sounds good to me It's true, this is a possibility. But it would seem this was to replace Replace. We can't know, though, so you're right: We can't use the errata to necessarily justify anything since it was removed. I don't agree with you on this point. WS posted the change to Eternally Shackled which clearly made him not Slow. While you're probably right that the wording of Summoning will be changed to remove the ambiguity, I also am strongly of the belief that Leveticus will change in such a way that he won't be Summoned. So, as you said in your first point, I don't think that we can rule either way based on this. We have seen that Colette is an exception to this, able to give herself Reactivate as a (0). Now I'll grant you, it actually takes two activations, but it is still 4AP in one turn, and what's more it's general AP, which is huge (and still leaves her with a (0) on her second activation). The Dreamer is another case of a Master that has more AP. If you switch between the Dreamer and LCB in a turn, you have 3 general AP, but if I recall the Dreamer is a Casting Expert, and LCB is a Melee Expert, and they can both use (0) actions making them have an absurd about of AP without anyone getting to go in between. In summary, keeping Leveticus in line doesn't work since there is no line. If they ruled that he was Slow the next time around, it would require no justification on anyone's part. I think all Leveticus players can truly see it either way in terms of reasoning and balance. Depending how they end up wording it, it can be logical either way. I don't know of anything else that is summoned outside of the Activation Phase, so they have to activate (even if they just pass). Leveticus cannot activate, so he's an exception to so many rules it's hard to make a ruling on it. -- You play a good devil's advocate. I'm on your side. But I'm also not.

But you're only posting that one WS response in isolation. Later in that thread he went on to say this was being changed in the errata. So we basically know that WS said it worked one way, but made it clear it was changing so it would no longer work that way. Then we got the errata that showed the change, but then that errata was removed. So I would argue that the last ruling on it is that the Wyrd folks aren't quite sure what to do with it. I think there's a legitimate claim to play it either way, and I think the claim that he is not Slow is even stronger for two reasons The rules about summoning limit the duration of Slow, specificity is better than the general Slow, and therefore the Slow should be limited. That's a direct and logical reading of the rules. The errata, even though taken down, was going to make Leveticus not be Slow. Coupled with what Tenebrae has pointed out that it seems that the whole reason for him coming back in Closing as opposed to start was to take advantage of the summoning rules... I think the intent that Leveticus is not Slow is pretty clear (errata in particular pointing this out, even though now recalled probably for a better wording) Although we do have a rules marshal weighing in on the answer, we later have him talking about changing that so it was no longer the case. If you want to go with the last (standing) official ruling, Leveticus is Slow. If you go by what the rules say AND by what the errata implied for intention, he is not. Thus, either point is fully justifiably by what rules marshals and Wyrd people have said.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12091 To assist

There is no game mechanic, to my knowledge, that specifically addresses balancing "excessive activations." I believe the point that everyone else is making is that there doesn't need to be a game mechanic for this as the models themselves take this into account. An 8 stone model that does the same thing as two 4 stone models is on equal footing. However, since it is not just a highly in-depth game of rock scissors paper, each model has strengths and weaknesses. For example, two Witchling Stalkers are much more effective against any one model that relies on spells. However, an 8 point model that focuses on something else will have a much easier time putting down Witchling Stalkers. Malifaux goes further than that and gives subtleties to each model that pretty much gaurantees how you use the model is what brings out whether the cost of the model is worth it. In summary: There is no "GAME MECHANIC" that deals with "excessive activations" because there doesn't need to be. It may be in other systems, but other systems aren't this system. This system doesn't need it. The balance, then, for having more activations comes from the models themselves, taken into account in the soulstone cost of the model. However, directly comparing an 8 soulstone model to four 2 soulstone models is not an accurate comparison. Therefore, an elite army can be perfectly balanced against a horde army. Hope that helps.

When do the new Master icons come out? :-P

Which is it? I would search, but I'm at work and don't have time to just lurk on the forum..........

The hockey post is at like 268. This thread has a long way to go :-P

Welcome to the forum! What crew are you currently playing? What crew might you get next? Keep spreading the word

Good. I need confirmation! My certainly levels are always low, haha.

I thought this was only Morale Duels. He gives the Wp, but things die if they fail Morale Duels, which are not as common. I could be remembering incorrectly.

Looking good, and welcome! I wholeheartedly support your choice in first Master.

It's a random you can plan around (set deck) with the ability to alter certain outcomes (hand of cards).

Banned in the past. Fired now. What do your tacticians have to say about empty threats?!?

Not to over simplify the issue, but... the fact that to pull it off you are taking weaker models. If an opponent has that many activations, they have taken many cheap models, which means that the models are not that good. I think that balances it pretty well. Gremlins, for example, are quite easy to kill. It's not a stretch to kill one per AP, which quickly changes that ratio. Also, there are usually a few power hitters in the 2:1 list, and if you target them the little things shouldn't be as much of a problem. I have played games with roughly a 2:1 ratio, and I don't think it's terribly unbalanced. Your opponent does pay for that. You are not punished for taking an elite army. They are not punished for taking a horde. However, in specific match-ups, that will play out very poorly. If you don't know what you're facing ahead of time, a good idea is to build a balanced list. A balanced list probably isn't a list of all expensive models, making the 2:1 ratio harder to pull off. I think the system deals with it just fine. It's true that equal cost = equal strength, but not in all circumstances. You say I think the answer, for Malifaux, is no. That is part of why they let you hire after you know what you have to do. The models are not intended to be equally effective at all things in all circumstances. Therefore the elite army will suffer in certain strategies (such as reconnoiter) and in certain situations (such as against large cheap armies). Does that mean that the elite army can't win? No. But are they equal? No. That's why building a crew is a part of the strategy and balance of the game. If you insist on fielding one crew type, you have to expect to be beaten. Because I don't think there's a part of Malifaux that says as long as you spend the same number of soulstones as your opponent, all things will be equal. What you bring to the table matters a lot, not just the points chosen. So you are not punished for taking an elite army. There are times that will work better and times that will work worse. P.S. I agree that referencing Tzu as an argument in this context is a bit much.