Amarel

I've played against both Pandora and Lilith crews that used them, but I think Pandora probably runs them best.

This is true, but as you say it's the push away and wound if you fail or the need to then to do a second duel (relatively easy CB vs DF) that make it so painful feeling. Lilith's -CB trick is also very nasty . It's probably worth everyone showing their Masters in their sig so as people can see where their point of view comes from. Playing the Vik's (who are flimsy and easy to hit) I do look on those who are harder to hit / kill with some jealousy, although I do try to be non-partisan when commenting on the boards.

Marcus is a toolbox caster, rather than a blunt instrument, he helps his crew out much more than he does himself. He's all about turning opponents and friendlies into Beasts and then manipulating the situation.

Woah there, I'm not saying that something is fine and something else is not, I'm merely commenting that - as someone who plays against her - I find 'Expose Fears' to be far more frustrating to face, than her ability to bomb around the board. To respond to your actual question, there are only 3 models in the game with DF8 (Zoraida, Perdita & the Voodoo Doll) so I'm not sure it's the best example, but yes I think a WP duel before you get a chance to target her, that will cause you at least one wound if you're within 12" of her and will allow her to quite likely push out of range of you if you don't make it, which you start at a disadvantage with and then have to have a standard CB vs DF duel afterwards if you do pass it, is more powerful than just facing DF8. I believe maths is on my side here, too, for whatever value his vote is worth . WP6 doesn't matter, you need WP7 to have the advantage against her when attacking and that's much less common. It gives her a massive edge, it means that she has the advantage. On an equal draw she wins, if the draw is cheated then she has the advantage of going second and if she has a red joker she can't be beaten (which obviously cascades down because if she has a thirteen, then only a red joker can beat it, and so on). The chance of my opponent having a face card in his hand is relatively low, the chance of me having his face card +1 is even lower. She's very difficult to balance, as we've seen from her going from a model no-one seemed to get at the beginning to the powerhouse she is now. I actually quite like the fact that she can bomb around the board and, potentially, get stuck somewhere unfavourable if my opponent overreaches - I think that feels like 'Pandora', and if you take it away I think she'll be a lot less fun to play. Sure the chain-link is a problem, but I don't feel that the linked-push is (just personal opinion, of course). I'd mostly like just a good chance to hit her when I do eventually catch her :fight:

As per the errata, the gravedigging action no longer exists.

Not arguing that, just saying that it makes her very difficult to hit; giving her a huge defensive bonus and making her low Def an additional speed bump rather than a mitigating factor for her other abilities. CB doesn't matter, it's not getting past her defense that's tricky, it's the WP test that makes her so hard to hit. That high WP also gives her the offensive advantage over every other model in the game bar three (Levi, Zoraida and Hollow Waifs) - i.e. when she casts one her spells, she has the advantage in any duel against everyone else. The fact that she has the joint second highest Soul Stones cache of any Master, so she's generally got spare to burn on the off chance that she's not won the duel, is just the icing on the cake. Anyway, kinda off topic now so... .

But to even target her you have to do a WP->WP duel, and with a WP of 7 she's already got a big advantage (a few models have the same, but only one has higher (from memory)). The couple of times I have managed to win that duel I've then been sucker-punched by her using one of her many Soul Stones. She could have a Def of 20 and I wouldn't have noticed .

This is the side issue with her - her WP is so high that she will nearly always have the advantage offensively (fine) but also defensively (not quite so fine, imo, as it makes her amazingly strong both on the attack and also when being attacked). But I digress, sorry .

The only thing I disagree with in your post is this bit. I don't think it does take much setting up at all - just move and link sorrows to burn through your opponents activations and then you've got a 28" move (with an 8"-12" range on top of that, so expect some of that move to be used to return Pandy to safety). That said it does become natural to start bunching most of your models when you play against her, with a couple of outliers to tempt her / make her wary of certain routes in / out. After that you start taking out her Sorrows and hoping to cap her range, in an ideal world you've got blast damage to fix her with (although this is a little faction dependent and if you're playing blind you can't put too many points into that for fear of screwing yourself against someone else ). Anyway, she's definitely someone that requires practice to take out; which is no bad thing.

At the risk of trying to squeeze more informational blood from the tight-lipped stone, will the new Outcast Master use existing Outcast models? The current Outcast setup of each Master using their own non-cross-over minions is a little at odds with all the other factions who can share a bit.

I don't think the words have been invented that could possibly convey an acceptable response to this...

:puppy:

I'm kind of basing my assumption a little on the fact that the Dryads are generally female spirits and Waldgeists are traditionally old men.

Yes, like the ones in the book. I would very much like the same.

Given how leftfield the casts have been so far, no . I'm liking the idea of a catbus gone evil.

If he has Slow he can still use an (all) action, but not a (2) action. So it's niche, but usable.

I'm not sure that Leveticus has a particular feel to his crew - he has rather an eclectic choice. Personally they fit rather well with my Belles .

It's my birthday in August - this is clearly a planned assault on my birthday cash!

There's a similar thread in the general forum which might help you out, too. Essentially, yes, Pandora can be a right pain and is very difficult to lock down. Ramos has the advantage of detonating Spiders, however, which at least means he can bypass her WP-based defensive ability (although do expect your opponent to burn some Soul Stones on healing flips).

You are correct - If any of their number survive, then they're back up to their full compliment in the closing phase.

Nope, you're doing nothing wrong; that's Pandora. I have a heck of a time playing against her, and without detonating spiders it's even worse so you've got a good start . As stated above you need to spread out and remove her means of easy moving (i.e. her crew). Never assume she'll get stuck anywhere / you'll be able to get past her WP to hit her normally - she starts with so many Soul Stones that she can burn through a ton for non-critical events. Lastly, where possible, focus on taking out one thing at a time to ensure it gets gone. Good luck :spider:

Does anyone else have man-love for Nathan? Don't leave me hanging, I have to know if this is a lonely furrow I plough, or not...

Levi, Alyce, 2 x Waifs and 4 x SPA's would work (20ss), but it would be an expensive box. Probablythe best fit, though (imho, of course).

I absolutely love the models. If I wasn't already a Leveticus player, these would make me one. And they fit in rather well with my Belles style of play, to boot. (I now look a bit silly, sitting at work with an inane grin on my face, yay).

Well, I said "generally", rather than being so categoric, but probably should have opted for 'often' instead. SPA's aren't very popular in the Levi list thread and, personally, I'd rather take four Steampunk Arachnids, as opposed to four SPA's for the same cost. Although I'll give the SPA's a good go once they're released (I likely gave them less of a chance than they deserved when I proxied them as I hate not having the cards and needing to keep referencing the book).