katadder

Chi is after the flip before cheating. You were right as there is no option to use after cheating.

If chi takes you above your opponent then your opponent has to cheat first.

If chi is used before cheating it is also added to any cards cheated in.

Yeah shenlong players have to be careful with that. But bunching up you have to be careful of his ranged attack and thunder archers blasting onto you.

Although I am guessing alot of people are not taking them, or dont seem to be

2 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

I once beat Shenlong. I took a list with 8 minions and used their bodies to physically block his path to my master and henchman and by the time he'd killed them all (turn 3) he'd burned through all his chi.

Falling rave kick allows him to ignore models during that 6" move so that's no real defence.

I have beaten him with misaki with ease though. Just have to concentrate him down if you want him dead

5 minutes ago, Nikodemus said:

PDF page 22:

None of the general actions seem to have a resist. Therefore, rules as written, they're tactical actions.

You're late to the game, pointed out already by others 😉

General actions are not tactical actions, this is a holdover from 2e players where they used to be tactical actions.

Does it say anywhere in general actions they are tactical actions? If not (it doesnt) then hannah cannot copy them

Consider armour. Hinamatsu and vasilisa both help here.

Also teddy with certain crews.

The viks struggle with armour so this is always useful. Terrifying is handy too as the viks themselves are only wp5

Ride with me on a few horses also.

22 minutes ago, oistene said:

Here's a big +1 to upgrading bad models before nerfing too good models. There are still a bunch of models there is NO point what so ever to take.

sometimes thats because other models are too good though, so even upgrading a bad model wont see it taken if another is too good.

15 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

If you just took the melee symbol off of falling rave kick, it would have a significant weakening effect. Counterplay of concealment, can't do it off a charge, etc.

no counterplay off concealment, would actually make it better if anything due to negs becoming pos.

I still think for shenlong that removing his irreducible, and the 6" move off falling rave kick would probably sort him.

on Archie, he is like the first mate for bayou basically seen as a 10ss versatile because they are too good for their cost. removing the suited leap would probably help this to a degree.

12 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

You can only concentrate once per activation so you can't get 3 on the student, unless I've misunderstood something. 

As others pointed out a shenlong crew can concentrate multiple times per activation.

Always best to check the app when replying. 

If you need/want alot of chi, activate the low river monk 1st, concentrate for more chi.

Have a student activate and transfer a chi from lrm to shenlong. Plus concentrate twice (so it has 3), then other student does the same. 

Shenlong activates starting with 3 (2 transfers plus 1 for activating) then spiritual alines off one or both students to be on 6 to 9 chi.

Not saying anyone did this but it's possible to build up chi without sensei yu

2 hours ago, Fog said:

If you want a look at strong performers then looking only at wins or podium finishes is the wrong way to go.  What you want to do is look at all of the x-1 finishes (or x-2 in particularly large events) or better.  In a large event the difference between second and sixteenth can be as little as the order in which you played your opponents.  You can be playing for first at the final table, lose, and drop to tenth.  Anyone making their way through a five round tournament with a single loss is a strong showing and should be accounted for even if they miss out on a medal.  

That's the thing with nationals. The difference between 5th and 31st was 1 game lost.

So massive variance in possibilities

I don't remember her being that good. But I didnt do the play test for long. 

Well maybe because I suggest fixes to some of the most "broken" models in every faction I play 😁

Shenlong - lose the irreducible trigger from normal attack and lose the 6" move off fermented. If he wasnt so fast he wouldn't surprise people and without irreducible 2/3/5 even always on plus flips wouldn't be bad.

ss miners - insignificant the turn they unbury. Allows some counterplay to outflank etc as at the moment there is none.

Spider swarms - lose built in onslaught, maybe put carried away in a different trigger and build that in. Stat 5 attack as pseudo stat 7 anyway.

Stitched - lower df to 5. Make gamble an attack? 2nd one not so sure but they need something

Wasnt personal but it gets annoying when I post some stats anywhere with the caveat that I have posted in everything from release of 3rd that I get followed and basically say I'm slanting things. When it is also being slanted another way.

As said I am unbiased as I play multiple factions and I know shenlong needs tweaking, but so does some arcanist stuff and I am sure stuff in my other factions (stitched, although I dont hire them, just summon sometimes)

For completeness then to go with my post, podiums since 3e release

Arcanists 7
Thunders 11
Outcasts 12
Neverborn 4
Bayou 3
Explorers 1
Ressers 3
Guild 1

So 3 factions are consistently in the top 3. Does it mean anything is dominating as yet or is that just what people are playing the most? I mean thunders was most represented at uk nationals but also at least 2 fixed shenlong players were mid 60s for position.

Guild are certainly least represented with their only podium being a win. Alyx and dave probably represent the majority of those thunders results, james and matt Lewin probably represent the majority of the arcanists, with radek doing the outcasts. Thing is they are all good players and matt for example had the guild right near the top for quite some time in 2e. So is it factions or players?

Some people seem to be asking about crews so will post mine.

Game 1 vs shenlong (win 7-2), I chose deliver and outflank.

Misaki, shang, ototo, fuhatsu - silent protector, lone swordsman, 2 samurai

Game 2 vs shenlong (loss 4-6), I chose assassinate and take prisoner.

Shenlong, 2 students, sensei yu, dawn serpent, 2 thunder archers, 2 wandering river monks, low river monk

Game 3 vs thunders mei feng (win 5-3), I chose claim jump and deliver a message.

Same Misaki crew as game 1.

Game 4 vs McCabe (win 7-2), I chose claim jump and take prisoner.

Mei feng, forgeling, fuhatsu - silent protector, sparks - trained ninja, metal golem, metal gamin, rail worker, shadow effigy.

Game 5 vs pandora (win 6-1), I chose take prisoner and breakthrough.

Shenlong - masked agent, 2 students, sensei yu, low river monk, fuhatsu, 2 samurai - silent protectors 

Game 6 vs seamus (loss 4-5), I chose assassinate and search the ruins

Misaki crew same as game 1 and 3.

Game 7 vs molly (win 8-4), I chose outflank and claim jump.

Shenlong, 2 students, sensei yu, fuhatsu - silent protector, lone swordsman, 2 wandering river monks, 2 low river monks

I had some very good games over the weekend, although 4 thunders on day 1 was alot. Still cant get the dawn serpent to do anything for me but then it was jumped on turn 1 by a fast yasanori so didnt get to do much.

Overall shenlong won 2, lost 1, misaki won 2, lost 1 and mei feng won 1. Extremely happy with my end position and generally happy with how I played the crews.

Thanks to dave brown for organising and to all my opponents for a fun weekend. 

22 hours ago, mythicFOX said:

That's a misleading way of cutting the tournament results (at best).

Of the 20 UK M3e tournaments on Malifaux Rankings (http://malifaux-rankings.com), plus this weekend's Nationals;

• Ten Thunders:  6
• Arcanists:  6
• Outcasts:  3
• Ressers:  2
• Bayou:  2
• Guild:  1
• Neverborn:  1

If you look at the podium places of the four Grand Tournaments which have been held, which are the well attended competitive two day events, it's as follows;

• Thunders:  5
• Arcanists: 3
• Outcasts: 2
• Ressers: 2

Or if you want to exclude the Welsh GT from the beta period it's;  TT 4, Outc 2, Arc 2, Res 1.

UK Nationals (7 rounds, >80 players) top 10 were;  4 Thunders, 4 Outcasts, 1 Arcanist, 1 Resser.

Now we can argue about the right way to count events, and if we should count from a time when the beta was still tinkering around the edges or not, but I really don't think it's honest to present a narrative that TT aren't doing really well at both local and national levels in the UK.

James the reason I did it from release is before then alot less people were playing or they were messing around with other things as it was still beta so it's not misleading in the slightest as I do put from release in my post. Also alot of those prior TT wins were dave laing at 8 round scottish events, so if anything your posts are more misleading.

Tbh you try this misleading all the time as protection for arcanists who cant seem to play without their 2 crutches. Even going by your numbers for TT most of those are dave or alyx, neither of whom use everyone's favourite problem child, compared to every arcanist in your numbers (and mine) will have had at least 1 or 2 ss miners and/or 1 or 2 spider swarms. It also means arcanists start with a cache of 1 or 2 and it's not an issue for them as the miners are running schemes easy as well as providing stones for no card flip, which gives the arcanists a leg up over their opponents. I am yet to see you play without these crutches and you even admit in a deep dive it's what you do (it's what I do too unless playing ironsides, and looking at your EGT crews everyone has ss miners and 3 also had arachnids, is that not a problem?).

I'm actually fairly unbiased as my faction choices this year spread over 3 factions so far (2 thunders, 2 outcasts, 2 neverborn) with me playing guild this weekend coming. I know shenlong needs tweaked and inhave suggested fixes which people think goes too far but so also do the arcanist crutches as playing against arcanists is already getting stale.

So is thunders dominating? Not at all, but there are some tweaks needed.

TT are not dominating uk tourneys though. They have won 2 since 3e release. Outcasts have also won 2 and arcanists have won 5. The other factions have 1 each.

So 2 out of 13 so far. Yep totally broken and need nerfing

If you love the idea of zipp then go with him. Rule of cool. He is very good too.

Levi is my main outcast main and he is pretty good, just have to protect your waifs but as a wmh player you are used to protecting models.

I would also suggest the viks, straight forward crew, very mobile and hit hard. Glass cannons as well which is what legion was iirc

You complete your action before you take damage from hazardous terrain.

So the walk isnt damaging you, it is triggering hazardous terrain which damages you after your action has finished 

i do tend to take hinamatsu in zoraida so in theory could get 4 out of activation attacks for 1 of zoraidas. very card intensive though

Well only thing I can find in the rules relating to choices is attached. It also includes the choice of may but no alternate to not choose so make of it as you will.

The model making the choice may choose either option provided they have the capability to choose that option 

Well they make the choice 1st on which aura gets used as active player. Then you get to make your decision on what happens out of your many options.

Active player always chooses first. And he is in 3 auras that are always on. Then you choose what you do.

10 minutes ago, Ogid said:

I'm going to copy the relevant parts of what I wrote in the other thread:

 

 

Take flurry for example, a model may choose activating flurry (a "may" effect) after his first attack or his second attack; he doesn't lose the ability to flurry if he doesn't use it the first time it may use it.

Misery aura it's the same, the player may use it, but unless he decided to trigger it and resolve their effects, the ability isn't used. The aura is there to make sure that if a guy is stunned in range of the full woe crew, he doesn't get vaporized; but it doesn't make an ability that doesn't trigger used just for meeting the condition to trigger it.

 

Again going into different things like flurry, it's no relevant. auras are always active (even misery) ,you cant choose to trigger your aura, you can just choose the effect of it and if overlapping then the active player chooses who gets to make that choice of effect.

So active player is in pandora, candy and sorrows aura. Activates so gains stunned from candy, choose pandoras aura as he is active player and all 3 auras are named the same. Then you make your choice of what to do.