katadder

survivable? she was basically untouchable before which is not something the game should have. and as stated she is still df6 with terror, and can reduce damage by 2 before burying. also able to get to an easy min damage 4. 

maybe this isnt the right fix for her, but thats why its still beta testing. her previous incarnation was not good for the game though

24 minutes ago, matt said:

Just want to point out that they will have to pass a Terrifying duel every time they attack her, regardless of if it is resisted by Df or Wp.

Terrifying is not an ability to base a masters survivability off of. Either they will bring ruthless models as Pandora has been declared, or they will make sure to only attack her when they have cards in hand.

I think she could go to 6ss like the scion as she can still hit hard against distracted stuff, and she's still terrifying with df6 which is higher than alot of stats this editon

Means you can still target her but it's harder but not impossible like before

Why did he only bring 2 marionettes? Is there a rule somewhere I missed as normally all totems of the master are free during hiring.

Or did he not want to give away pass tokens?

18 minutes ago, KID55 said:

How Nekima prevent this damage if it's irreducible?

I am guessing m2e players that havent realised the difference between reduce and prevent has gone.

Most beaters only get 2 attacks, ok some have flurry but that costs a card and you spend a card to come back with 4 wounds, then regen 2 and hit back also with a 3/4/6 damage track all for 9ss.

Think he's ok tbh

problem with upping the duet is it can easily get 2 activations at the moment and it has crit strike and melee 7 with defense 7 and armour 2. plus agile, nimble and blade rush. even without going apart and coming together this seems a great model.

in counterpoint I remember the arguments against hinamatsu when she was df7 with arm2. yes she has flurry and onslaught but a 2/3/4 compared to the duets 2/4/5 with crit strike so you want to be glad they havent lowered the Df or ML of the duet for now as she got lowered.

on another note though, I am thinking I might do a puppet crew with hinamatsu and the duet in the same crew  

6 hours ago, Ours. said:

To my point.

In order for Taelor to charge, Pandora has to be within 7" for her to get 2 swings. On turn one...

I question his loyalty to Pandora. 😉

Taelor moves 2" due to battle tempo and can charge 7" with a 2" reach so on her own can hit targets 11" away.

Then there is the fact I always take the emissary in my melee crews these days so +1 move and a 3" push means hitting targets upto 15" away and with the 8" deployment meaning you could only be 20" apart one walk from an opponent can put taelor in range.

She is squishy though and will die after  (as she did in this game) but if you hit a good target then it's worth it.

I do want Pandora to be good as her crew was what attracted me to malifaux in m1e but at the moment she doesn't feel defensive enough. I think her original fade away should return to protect her. Even if she goes back to 10 wounds

11 minutes ago, Ours. said:

I don't want to go off on a tangent because I know this is a Pandora functionality thread but...

7 AP from 32 stones worth of models (I know masters are free but they value at 15) into one toy soldier doesn't seem like "without an issue". Additionally, where was the rest of your opponent's crew while you were flinging the bulk of your force into Pandora? No counter charging? No healing from Candy? Lures to safety from Kade? WP push checks from Aversions?

Again I don't want to get into a back and forth battle report as I think it gets away from OP's question, but if you're going into Pandora with 7 unanswered AP your buddy might want to reconsider his tactical approach to keeping his master alive. 🤔

True, but it was turn 1 and taelor was last. Plus Pandora is the biggest threat in her crew so taking her out with 32 stones into her 15 is worthwhile any time of the day. Tbh Levi and taelor can do it alone, hans just burnt some stones off her

Just saying that her defences are not upto much, especially as you can specifically pick your factions ruthless or high wp models to counter her.

And with df5 her trigger isn't much of a threat to just dedicated beaters who will have a higher stat than her.

See you will find ruthless models against her. I proves this during closed beta.

I took Levi (wp7 irreducible damage), hans and taelor. Between them they dropped Pandora without an issue and then it's just a case of dealing with the rest of her crew.

The trigger only works if they miss. And the only person she could defend against was hans as taelor stones for no soulstone use and Levi is just irreducible anyway. Plus taelor can easily charge from outside the moodswings aura

I am sure Pandora can be annoying but relying on terrifying isn't great.

9 minutes ago, Cleezy said:

She was nothing remarkable when I used her last week, solid but nothing crazy, obviously with the Redchapel changes she will need revisiting to see how it has affected her.

I liked her in m2e and she had some utility in certain instances. I want her to be viable in m3e and add that needed punch to the Redchapel keyword

No problem with her bringing the punch, but nothing in the game should be so untouchable.

Either a defensive trigger like colette and the scion, or a demise ability should be the answer.

They also did it to the scion of the void making it a defensive trigger that reduces damage after then buries. There really shouldn't be an ability to discard a card to completely ignore an attack. 

Also what comes first terrifying or the discard?

As for her stick in 2e, never once saw her more than once, she only had one life against me, but here she's basically untouchable.

Not sure how she's not been very impactful either, 2e 6 with some great triggers and flurry, 3e van get fast fairly easily with all the lures, can get min 4 damage with all the distracted, or min 3 if target is slow which she can put on herself and basically untouchable. Compare her to the same priced midnight stalker who is pretty much the same stats but manipulative (which is rubbish this edition), in fact perhaps bete could have the same demise ability as him

8 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Df 6 and Terror is hardly df tech. 

I think it would be better to just let her pop back if she’s killed in some way. You could still get credit for a kill. You could still hit her with debilitating conditions and make her activations bad. But you couldn’t permanently remove her since she would just keep coming back.

Tell that to the people saying it is for Pandora (who is only df5).

Df6 this version is actually quite high, was often hard enough to hit even before. And terrifying with all the card discard this edition can sometimes feel overwhelming.

On burying, both colette and the scion of the void have had it changed to a df/wp trigger. Not sure else who buries for defense but I think this could work for bete 

I agree with the shouldn't be able to completely ignore an attack. Combined with her other defensive stats and tech she just seems too much atm. She doesn't even take the 1 damage other buryers had to have.

Not sure what else she could have, maybe something similar to colette new one where the damage gets reduced and she fades away (leaving the blood splatter)

Is bete too survivable now? I remember the massive threads over other burying models but bete doesn't even take damage when she buries.

Add in your opponent needs to pass a terrifying duel everytime and this can be effected by other models scarlet temptation plus after all that she is defence 6 and if she buries from a melee the chances are she will get 3 attacks on her return has she gone too far?

I believe that like older versions of colette people will just never target her and trybto work around her, which is kind of an npe to have something you can pretty much almost never kill

Also what comes first? Terrifying or blood spatter?

Make her a support model, maybe some healing but for undead only (necromantic strengthening) and possibly some abom summoning (instead of the wicked dolls she had in m2e) off either scrap or corpses as let's be honest aboms are rubbish and will never be hired, only summoned 

This would be inline with amalgam whilst possibly helping the wound swap. She could even have some wound swapping on a trigger on heal.

19 hours ago, Fixxer said:

 

It was turn 4 and Ironsides moved up the board, "you looking at me" to Dreamer to come punch her in the face, got hit back, and then punched with a standard  attack. Because of the movement action, which they are common, my protected was useless as he was in position before he was "lured".  Even my opponent was astonished at how easily Dreamer went down. It was just an example and a recent one. Sure my opponent played it right but it was a moment where we both thought Dreamer could use more than 7wds especially because Incorporeal doesnt work against "Nice shot my turn" as its not an attack action. I play against savvy players and perhaps that situation wasnt the best, but I had just healed dreamer with Serena and removed his injured (given to him by a gunslinger) and he was in position to shluff off attacks to her. Then Ironsides moved him away. It was a great play by my opponent. 🙂 I had a couple 12s left in hand and a stone left, wasn’t injured anymore and healed up. I should’ve used a 12 to discard and be protected. The kicker was the straight flip on her trigger doing 5 damage, not reduced by incorporeal. Then hit with a min 4 attack bc she has plenty of adrenaline. The ss only reduced 1 with a unlucky flip. 

 

 

Ironsides "bring it" action is an attack action so protected would have worked against that too. 

With serene countenance, incorporeal and protected, plus soul stone use I think dreamer has enough defensive tech that he doesn't need much more wounds

Think we classed him as mediocre before but he had the saving grace of being able to contribute with his shooting (and he is probably the only person to make use of pull anyway as Lazarus cant).

Now he's weak 2, and has same weapon as cheaper minions and enforcers in other factions, but on a master. This why we say he's mediocre at best now

So completely ignore everything I put in quoted post. Perhaps that's because you know von Schill is now at best a mediocre support master and can't even contribute meaningfully to the fight either now. And 16ss is not worth it for leaping viks (mostly because they don't eliminate crews anymore).

I actually didn't like alot of VS, mostly just using his trunk for upgrades but not him as it's a waste of master AP but now he's lost even the little bit he had going for him. I have been reduced from 4 outcasts masters to 2 now as misaki went TT and VS has gone back to mediocrity.

Yes shooting was different as things were not as fast as they are now. Walk and charge is now a thing which it wasn't before. I believe that's why mason made shooting more effective. 

And you keep going on about VS equipment mechanic. The fact it takes a master action to hand out, and then you have to use other actions to actually use it, means you have paid a hefty price.

Yes you can give rocket boots to the viks, but you pay 16ss for the privilege and after that you have a very mediocre model. Can get alot more for your 16ss that's for sure as once the viks have gone in what is von Schill doing?

4 hours ago, trikk said:

He would shoots similarly as Dita (She has Cut down to Size and Stat7, He would have 2" range advantage and min 3). Has a shitton of defenses (Wp7, Survivalist, Armor, option for HtK) and can give upgrades (including Masters). And I think he has a better totem. Doesn't really seem balanced.

There is a mass of difference between shoot 6 and shoot 7. Also Perdita can easily hit min 4.

Add in some of Perdita other abilities like cut down to size, hasta is muerte, expert shot, finger on the trigger and hero's gamble and not only is she a better damage dealer, she's also a better support master.

Yes von Schill can hand out upgrades, but this is a 2 action tool, one master plus one for whatever upgrade and tbh I don't rate most of them as worth that and will only use ones out of the trunk.

He has had min 3 through all of 2e and all of the closed beta and nobody seemed to think this was an issue until you created a while post about it. If he was min 3 you are between using his support stuff (which is mediocre) or his shot. 

He wasn't broken before and would occasionally support the fight, but now I think you will see less of him as he's now pretty mediocre all round

Future proofing for future abilities or strats and schemes?

25 minutes ago, CrimsonWraith said:

I find it most intriguing that it is friendly model, and not limited to Amalgam in any way.

Whilst this is true, you will get most use out of it with amalgam models as they all have the triggers for it, either entropy or unmade triggers. This is the thing Levi needed to tie his keyword together imo

Reread it. It says when an enemy model suffers damage from entropy or unmade then a model within 3" of it may heal 1.

This means as long as Levi is within 8 of the enemy and something takes damage from entropy for example which is activate within 3" of the model with entropy then it can heal. This is really good as Levi doesn't have to be close to buff entropy for his side's healing

Yeah, he should get his min 3 back. Either that or crit strike