Disengaging

[allan255]

I'm just starting to read the new book rules and i got a doubt on a situation.

Model A take a Walk Action. He start out of Model B engagement range, and would end the Walk outside, but at one point, he pass into Model B engagement range.

Does Model B get a disengaging strike ? Where does the disengaging strike take place : at the start of Model A action (outside of B engagement range) or when A leave B engagement range ?

[Dracomax]

IIRC, I believe disengaging takes place at the start of the disengaging model's walk action.

I am pretty sure that if you would leave Model B's range with the disengage, they get to make the strike as well.

[Csonti]

Nope. Model B doesn't get a chance to stop Model A. Only Walk Actions initiated in an enemy's melee range triger that. Since Model A was not in B's melee range, he can't take the strike. Model A just walks through the melee range of B unhindered.

[Dracomax]

Well, looking at the rules, Csonti, that's functionally but not literally true.

you get a disengaging strike if the model would leave the engagement range with a walk. This is any time they would leave with a walk, even if they entered it with the same walk. however, the disengaging strike only goes off at the start of the walk, and uses a melee attack. so if Model B is not in Model B's melee range, they get the strike, but can't use it because they are out of range.

[Csonti]

I don't know what is your point with this but I think you are wrong. The opportunity to take a Disengaging strike is linked to the "enemy model that the moving model is engaged with" - remember we are at the start of the Walk Action. So no, Model B doesn't have a chance to strike. Not even literally.

[Dracomax]

I'm using the beta rules, because I have them with me. If this has changed in the final book, I concede the point. However, based on reading them,

It comes entirely from the definition of disengaging:

If a model wishes to leave an enemy model's engagement

range with a Walk Action, it must declare that it wishes

to do so before moving.

This may provoke a disengaging

strike from the enemy model that the moving model is

engaged with....Models

are engaged with each other if either model is within the

engagement range of the other and at least one of the

models has LoS to the other.

By strict reading, this occurs if at any point during the walk action, the model leaves the enemy models engagement range, not just at the beginning of the action. However, the strike only happens at the beginning of the action.

Therefore, we end up with the weird situation in which an opponent taking a walk action through your engagement range provokes a disengaging strike, but only before they are in range to take it. Since they get the strike, they are free to take the action, but because the model has not moved yet, they are out of range, so the action automatically fails.

Also, near as I can tell, the book itself does not explicitly state when the disengaging strike occurs, mentioning that it is a reaction to a move that must be declared before being made, and that it occurs before you leave the engagement range. The reason we take that to mean that it occurs before the action is that the effect of losing a disengaging strike is such that the walk action may not be taken. This implies that it must be done before the movement starts, but does not limit it to that. Everything beyond that is based on logical deduction(or is it induction? I always get those confused.)

[Csonti]

I think I rather concede here. It will be better for both of us.

[Sixblades]

I'll bite.

Third paragraph on disengaging, first line:

If the attack hits, the disengaging model may not perform the Walk action, although it must spend the required AP

I interpret this to mean that disengaging strikes occur after the model declares the walk and its intent to leave engagement range but before the walk action takes place.

Second paragraph of disengaging:

To resolve a disengaging strike, ...... take a free attack with any one Close (///) attack which the disengaging model is within range of.

The model wishing to do the disengaging strike must be within range when the Walk and intent is declared. If the walking model isn't engaged at the start of the walk then it is free to walk in and out of another model's engagement range during the walk.

[allan255]

Well, let's hope for a clarification soon. Right now, i dunno how to explain this to new players without having them running away

[Csonti]

Don't get distracted by the above philosophical discussion. Only Walk Actions initiated in an enemy's melee range trigger a disengaging strike. End of story.

[Ausplosions]

Don't get distracted by the above philosophical discussion. Only Walk Actions initiated in an enemy's melee range trigger a disengaging strike. End of story.

Absolutely.

[allan255]

Easier to translate and explain. Thanks.

[Todd]

We just noticed this while playing a game this weekend. Apparently, you can walk right through a model's engagement range now, as long as you didn't start your move within it? Is this really intentional, because it seems more like a mistake?

[Dracomax]

It made it through beta without change, and people brought it up, so unless you see an errata or FAQ in November about it, it is intentional.

[Ausplosions]

It is intentional.