Sculpting,...

[Webmonkey]

I've tried my hand a bit at sculpting models out of green/grey stuff. As far as yet,.. I've failed miserably. I can't seem to get my proportions right. Lately, I've aquired some basic skeleton structures from which to build on.

(Yes,.. I know it's in a basic pose. But this isn't about dynamic posing. I'm looking more at learning basic form rather then cool poses)

I've started back over from scratch. Here's my basic starting point,... at the point of underlaying the bulk of the muscle mass and structure. So what I'd like to hear from you guys is what the next step should be from here.

As always,.. constructive comments both welcome and appreciated.

[Mako]

I'd say the next thing is to build up the muscle structure more fully, but still a bit narrower than you'd want it in the end. The legs look pretty good to my eyes, so the torso and upper arms would be my next target. Measure every distance and compare it to a proportion diagram (I have a huge excel list of distances that I just put the total height in and it gives me point to point distances, let me know if you'd like to try it out and I'll upload it).

After that, start laying the skin and clothing over it. Work from whatever is the bottom layer (so skin before clothes, makes life easier) in small areas to start with as it's better to do several stages than to try to do a big area and have to rush or have the putty start to cure! Don't be afraid to cut stuff off and do it again and again until you're happy, or to build things up in lots of layers and stages.

Measure regularly, and keep everything in scale. Once scale creep starts, it's very hard to stop it!

And keep posting up progress shots, sometimes it takes another eye that doesn't know the end goal to see a problem.

Good luck!

[Webmonkey]

ok,.. ran out of grey stuff, and the store was out. So, I had to buy green stuff. But in the end, it shouldn't matter much on the final product. Got the arms more or less shaped, but I think I need to wait a bit. The greenstuff is still a bit too soft. Everytime I try to do the next part, it keeps deforming the putty. Best to wait I think.

So then,.. what's the next step???

[Mako]

Aye, waiting is one of the most annoying but really important bits of sculpting!

I'd look at the shoulders carefully, it could be the angle but they look a little uneven to me. Not much, but its always worth a double check.

Do you have a plan for what you want them to look like, and be wearing/holding? Because in many ways, the next step is to start putting the main surfaces on. Trousers, top, shoes, that kind of thing. You can work from the inner stuff outward if it seems easier, which means footwear, face and hands usually, then trousers, then top. But it very much depends on your preference and what you plan to put on it!

[Webmonkey]

In this case,.. I'm not sure. I'll probably start from the bottom and work upwards from there. Start with shoes and pants first. I think I'll have an easier time of it then the upper half. Especially hand and head/face are likely to be my hard bits.

But one thing at a time. I gotta figure out the end product, so I know how to start shaping the upper layers. Any suggestions on what you'd like to see?

[Mako]

I agree on the order, I usually start with the feet and legs, then the torso, the head, then arms at the end.

I say just make something up that you want to try out, if you want to try a technique then find a way to include it, if you don't want to do something then find a way to avoid it. Beyond that, as long as you know what you want each bit to look like, it should come out good!

[Webmonkey]

which would you say is more difficult,... clothing,... or bare flesh? What if I wanted my character to be wearing shorts?

I think the exposed flesh would be harder, since you'd have to be exacting with the musculature.

[Mako]

Cloth takes a little bit of care to make it look natural, but skin and muscle takes a lot of effort to get right. People are really good at spotting tiny mistakes in a human form, so you have to get it really really right.

I started with loose clothing, and then learned tighter stuff, then bare skin. I'm still learning musculature, it ends up as an anatomy lesson as well as sculpting practice!

Edited September 14, 2012 by Mako

[Webmonkey]

ok,.. started sculpting a bit. working on a foot and some shorts,.. still gotta sculpt the leg in-between. Though,.. they seem a bit oversized/off-scale to me. Not by much, but enough to be noticable. Would like some thoughts before I go any further.

clothing inspiration,...

and then,.. here's as far as I've made it with the sculpt,.. (just working from the waist down at this point, so ignore the top half of the fig,.. except for scaleing purposes perhaps)

[Mako]

Hmm, that foot does seem very large. They're smaller than you think, on a 32mm model a foot would be something like 5mm long for fully accurate scale. Often you get a bit of creep though on models, faces feet and hands tend to be a touch bigger.

If the shorts are going to be baggy, then they're probably about the right width as they'll shrink a bit as you press some folds into them. The buttocks are there, but he has a bit of a bulge on his front compared to his waist, which probably wants flattening a little.

You tend to find that things always start a bit big, and then shrink down as you work them and get folds and shaping in. But they always need to be smaller than you'd think! If in doubt, a really rough guide is to measure yourself and remember that at 32mm, 2 inches of real distance is close to 1 mm.

---------- Post added at 03:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 AM ----------

But compared to my early efforts, you're doing good! You can just trim away from that a little until it looks right to you, and then go from there.

[Webmonkey]

Agreed. Mind you,... the foot is a bit smaller then it may appear at first. As it is sitting on a square that's suppose to end up being the platform of a pair of japanese wooden shoes. I just haven't done the "stilts" beneath them yet,..

(see image below for what i mean,...)

Not sure if you looked close enough to catch that or not. Anyways,.. thanks for the extra "eye" on my project,..*grin*

[Mako]

I did think it was on a platform of some kind, though I hadn't picked it as those. The lack of stilts threw me I think! Which you can't really add until later of course, they'd just get all mangled while you worked on the foot!

The outside edge of the foot and the heel is where I'd look at, they're very narrow normally, almost to the point of being the same as the armature. Then it's just a case of continually tweaking while you refine details. Got to love Fimo for the ability to keep changing things!

[Webmonkey]

ok,.. worked on the leg a bit. I think I got the overall form worked out. The shorts on that side got smoothed out a bit and are more to my liking. Shortened the foot up some. How are the proportions looking?

Now,.. to see if I can mirror what I've done on the other side.

Also, I was having a bit of trouble with the fimo sticking to the tools. Turns out,.. vasoline on the tools is my friend. Hopefully it won't have a bad reaction with the clay.

What do you think,.. finish up the other leg and then bake before moving on?

[Mako]

That looks pretty close to me!

Vaseline or mineral oil will protect the tools, if you use a lot they'll make the putty a bit soft and break down a bit, but just a thin coat and you'll be fine. Usually I use saliva or water for Fimo, it seems to work fine and the putty is fairly non toxic so you can lick it safely! It also goes away without leaving a thin layer on the Fimo that can stop any more sticking. But it's a case of whatever you find easiest.

I think you're right, once you get the two legs done and matching bake them. Don't want to risk damage while you work on the top half! Experience will mean you can do more between baking, but for now as soon as you start to struggle to not touch it, cook it. I still bake regularly because I'm a total cretin and often touch the wrong bits...

[Webmonkey]

alrighty then,.. here it is. I think I managed to mirror the other leg and foot well enough. still a bit rough, but perhaps after a baking session, I can fine sand it to smooth it out a bit more.

Recommendation on sandpaper grit?

Also,.. what's the best way to bake it? oven? hair dryer? sunlight on the window sill? And what temp/time to use?

Thanks again Mako *grin*

[Mako]

Yeah, getting them to match is a total pain. It gets even harder with arms...

I usually bake at 100-110° for 30 min, that avoids damaging green stuff or metal that's in there. And once it comes out give it some time to cool and harden fully if you want to file it.

I'd begin by scraping with a knife, then use needle files, then move on to something like wet 600 grit paper if the surface is still rough, but more to smooth than actually shape it

[Webmonkey]

ok,.. slight baking snag,.. my house oven doesn't go below 170 F. I wonder if that temp is too much and would damage it? hrmm,.. next thought,.. would a hair dryer put out warm enough air to help the clay set up? May just take a longer exposure,...

As always,.. thoughts appreciated. *grin*

[Mako]

Oops. That's 110°C, so about 220 Fahrenheit. Forgot the units...

I have been told those hot air pens for craft stuff like embossing can be used to sort of bake small areas, but never tried it so can't really say if it would work or not. The oven is a much safer bet.

[Webmonkey]

Just pulled the sculpt from the oven. 220 for 30 min. Gotta let it cool now and see how stiff the putty has become. From here, scraping, filing and sanding as directed until I get it smoothed. Then,.. onto the top half!!!

[Webmonkey]

ok,.. thinned the shorts out some,.. baked the fimo from the waist down,.. and filed for shape on the legs and such. (Still not perfectly happy with the feet, especially the toes. But for a first time sculpture, I'm trying to look past it. But I always was my own worst critic *grin*)

Now I've got the blob that is to be the torso in position and roughly shaped. In this case, there's going to basically be a t-shirt and a jacket over the torso. So is it worth taking the time to sculpt out the underlying flesh? or just the shoulder muscles and collar bone sections, as that's what is going to be see peering out from the top of the shirt around the neck line?

Thoughts on my next move?

[Mako]

Looking good monkey!

It's usually worth sculpting in the vague muscle shapes, the pectorals and stomach panel as well as the shoulder and bicep and collarbone, not perfectly refined but in proportion and position. That way as you it clothing on, you have the right shape to work onto. Otherwise you can easily end up with scale creep or very odd anatomy!

Oh, and if you feel bad about your feet, look at GWs dark eldar wracks and grotesques. The people that did those are full time sculptors, and they have no idea how to do feet either...

*grin*

Feet are probably the hardest thing, that's why surpisingly few human models actually have bare feet.

[edonil]

Agreed with Mako, looking good!

[Webmonkey]

Basic torso form and musculature formed and represented. I didn't go into full sculpting detail, seeing as how the shirt and jacket layers are going to cover it all. Neck is more or less done. Any thoughts on what to pay attention to or areas to spend more time on? If not,.. then I think a quick bake before layering on the torso's clothing.

[Mako]

I'd say broaden and lift the shoulders a touch, and shrink the collarbone a smidge (it shouldn't be much wider than the neck when you look at the positioning of it). But honestly, those can be tweaked as you put the tshirt on since they're such small adjustments

[Webmonkey]

Undershirt and torso section of jacket added. Next up,... sleeves and arms,...