Calmdown Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 In a model-count game (ie - Turf War and Claim Jump) basically the only way Dreamer is going to win is to kill Hamelin. Not sure if you realised this about your second crew at the time (ie - not sure if your "this is my comedy list" was an offguarding tactic or you actually meant it ), but in our game where you used list two, I basically had 0 chance of killing Hamelin because of the number of Stolen on the board. I could have done it potentially and the Lelu/Lilitu sacrifice was a purposeful risk & sacrifice to get rid of all of the Stolen in that area (not knowing at the time you could turn the Totem into one, but anyway) and open up the way for Chompy. I actually think that (as a tournament tactic at least), simply dropping that number of Stolen on the board and making Hamelin nigh invincible, whilst rats guarantee the death of anything that drops to kill Stolen, make for a very difficult to win game. Of course, compounded by the fact that Dreamer's worst games are model count games too. Incidentally the base blocking didn't cause a problem due to Chompy's reach, but very definitely would have against someone like Kirai with all of her 1" melee ranges In the last game, I was happy to see your other list as I felt it was weaker against me; it relied much more on Nyx who I was confident I'd kill, and my second turn would have ended the game if not for the Red Joker on the damage prevention for Hamelin (there being basically nothing left of import after the twins had all activated and killed the rest of the Stolen). In addition, if the game had lasted longer it would have likely gone further and further in the Dreamer's favour - whereas with your all Stolen list, I think the chance of ever having a favourable alpha strike is pretty slim. Summary: Stolen list is pretty naughty. "Normal" list plays more to Dreamer's strength imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) not sure if your "this is my comedy list" was an offguarding tactic or you actually meant it If I'm honest I meant it, I didn't realise how effective it would be not knowing at the time you could turn the Totem into one Not sure what you mean but the Totem didn't "become" a stolen or anything, she has many of the same effects but she was still on the board at the end iirc? I actually think that (as a tournament tactic at least), simply dropping that number of Stolen on the board and making Hamelin nigh invincible, whilst rats guarantee the death of anything that drops to kill Stolen, make for a very difficult to win game. Yeah, def agree with that now I've done it - but I don't feel bad considering the filth you play Incidentally the base blocking didn't cause a problem due to Chompy's reach Bar when I left the gap you couldn't get within 4" of Hamelin so it was a problem I think, it was the only reason you didn't kill him In the last game, I was happy to see your other list as I felt it was weaker against me; it relied much more on Nyx who I was confident I'd kill, and my second turn would have ended the game if not for the Red Joker on the damage prevention for Hamelin (there being basically nothing left of import after the twins had all activated and killed the rest of the Stolen). All my lists run without Nix as in competitive play he's one of the first things to go (look at both games you played against me, first thing you did was kill Nix), but agree re the Red Joker - but that's Malifaux In addition, if the game had lasted longer it would have likely gone further and further in the Dreamer's favour Def not, you had one daydream, no soulstones and only an Insideous Madness, 1 x Lilitu and 1x Lelu. I was sat on 8 rats, rat catcher, a sorrow with a 13 in hand for doldrums, Young Neph with 2 blood counters and card in hand for Mature, 2x Stolen, Totem and Hamelin with 3x soulstones. I think that was going my way Edited January 20, 2012 by magicpockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 If I'm honest I meant it, I didn't realise how effective it would be Haha. I was hoping you'd run your other one. Although either way I was only ever going to play for VP to guarantee a top 4 spot. Not sure what you mean but the Totem didn't "become" a stolen or anything, she has many of the same effects but she was still on the board at the end iirc? Oh... I misunderstood something here. Ignore me. Yeah, def agree with that now I've done it - but I don't feel bad considering the filth you play Nor should you, its the masters! Bar when I left the gap you couldn't get within 4" of Hamelin so it was a problem I think, it was the only reason you didn't kill him I could actually have fitted him further forward if I'd summoned him with a (1) instead of placed him with a (0), but I'd already decided at that point that I'd lost so I tried something else without thinking it through The chances of Chompy killing Hamelin with 1ap were basically 0. Base blocking is definitely a strength of that crew, though. but agree re the Red Joker - but that's Malifaux Yep. Anyone who says cards are better than dice doesnt really "get" maths, but that's an argument for another thread But that's the way the cookie crumbles. Def not, you had one daydream, no soulstones and only an Insideous Madness, 1 x Lilitu and 1x Lelu. I was sat on 8 rats, a sorrow with a 13 in hand for doldrums, Young Neph with 2 blood counters and card in hand for Mature, 2x Stolen, Totem and Hamelin with 3x soulstones. I disagree with that quite a bit; if it had gone even a few more activations you'd have almost certainly lost the Claim Jump (Terror 14 chompy sitting in the middle of all of your models). If it had been untimed then I wouldnt have been activating my models and not attacking with them so the board would have looked differently. Although we can argue this forever and probably not agree. End of the day you won, and that is indeed, small pond Malifaux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I disagree with that quite a bit; if it had gone even a few more activations you'd have almost certainly lost the Claim Jump (Terror 14 chompy sitting in the middle of all of your models). With no stones Hamelin would have one shot LCB for 10 wounds via Fate is Meaningless, I was going to do it at the end of the turn we played but only had 20 seconds or so left so never would have got through the duel. As soon as a Master runs out of SS it's goodnight from Hamelin End of the day you won Ahhh, that's like music to my ears.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 With no stones Hamelin would have one shot LCB for 10 wounds via Fate is Meaningless, I was going to do it at the end of the turn we played but only had 20 seconds or so left so never would have got through the duel. As soon as a Master runs out of SS it's goodnight from Hamelin He took 3ap to get there, he had none left. But lets stop this now or it will go on forever, haha. Ahhh, that's like music to my ears.... So it should be! Don't want to sound like I'm making excuses. It was a freaking epic game. And honestly, I think if it had been pretty much anyone else playing Hamelin it wouldn't have been half as difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junchi Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Don't want to sound like I'm making excuses. Bit late for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 He took 3ap to get there, he had none left. Cant...resist..... Only because he walked three times, I could have walked once and then charged. Ok....enough... Bit late for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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