Tauwolf Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 LaFemmeGeekita and I found another "Unstoppable Force vs Immovable Object" situation. It seems there are a few of these scattered amongst the myriad of combos in this game. Judge's Stay Dead: When this Puppet Tears Apart another puppet, it is removed from play instead of being placed in the Scrap Heap. VS. Sorrow's Stuffing Mites: If Torn Apart by another Puppet, automatically attach this Puppet’s Cooties Upgrade to that Puppet. Which rule trumps the other? We just did a card flip, highest card wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) The sorrow's upgrade attaches to the judge. The judge's ability removes the puppet from play "instead" of it going to the scrap heap, but the cooties upgrade would never go to the scrap heap, so that effect can not be replaced with being removed from the game. Edited December 15, 2011 by Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauwolf Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Interesting read on that. I can certainly see that being valid. I think part of me really wants to believe that the text on some of these rules was written to be extremely precise (such as your reading of the rules in this case), and another part of me believes that it's loosely formatted and therefore open to unintentional conflicts (like the Belle/Alyce conflict). Ok, so now how about this one: Judge VS December Acolyte Stay Dead VS. Delicious stuffing!: Any time a Puppet is Torn Apart in an Adjacent Space, this Puppet may immediately Attach that Puppet's Upgrade side without taking a test or using the Scrounge Action, as long as it is Suitable to Attach the Upgrade. "MMMMMM delicious stuffing!" "Nope, I told him to stay dead" "No! Gimme stuffing!!!!" "STAY DEAD DAMN YOU!!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Interesting read on that. I can certainly see that being valid. I think part of me really wants to believe that the text on some of these rules was written to be extremely precise (such as your reading of the rules in this case), and another part of me believes that it's loosely formatted and therefore open to unintentional conflicts (like the Belle/Alyce conflict). Ok, so now how about this one: Judge VS December Acolyte Stay Dead VS. Delicious stuffing!: Any time a Puppet is Torn Apart in an Adjacent Space, this Puppet may immediately Attach that Puppet's Upgrade side without taking a test or using the Scrounge Action, as long as it is Suitable to Attach the Upgrade. "MMMMMM delicious stuffing!" "Nope, I told him to stay dead" "No! Gimme stuffing!!!!" "STAY DEAD DAMN YOU!!!!!" Same ruling. The upgrade would never be placed in the scrap heap, so it can't go anywhere "instead" of the scrap heap. Although, the two of them fighting over a dead puppet is a pretty amusing image. And the Alyce/Belle question actually does have a very precise RAW ruling I could have given when the question was asked...the RAW is just a bit counter intuitive on that one, so we're discussing it. Edited December 15, 2011 by Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I thought the judge's ability "Stay Dead" only affects the puppet, not the upgrade. Thus, it keeps Seamus from reanimating Rotten Belle's and any master from reanimating any puppet with "Made of Spare Parts" like the Guild Autopsy. I don't think it affects the upgrades, I think they move to the scrap heap as normal, but that is just the reading we have been playing with. Whole thing goes. Where ever one side of the card goes, the other side goes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Ya, just re-read the rules trying to figure out if I was missing things, and found my mistake "If a puppet is removed from the game, the upgrade on the other side of its Stat Card is also Removed..." Thanks for asking the question, as that cleared up that unknown misreading of the rules . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 So with that, if my opponent has Rotten Belle and she is torn apart, her card goes to the scrap heap. If I attempt to scrounge for her "Moldy Stuffing" and am successful, she cannot ever reanimate? Or is it even possible to take Moldy Stuffing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) So with that, if my opponent has Rotten Belle and she is torn apart, her card goes to the scrap heap. If I attempt to scrounge for her "Moldy Stuffing" and am successful, she cannot ever reanimate? Or is it even possible to take Moldy Stuffing? Here's the easiest way to look at it: A stat card can only be one thing at a time. And whatever happens to one side of it, happens to the whole card. It's a single thing. So, if the stat card is being used as the moldy stuffing upgrade, it can not be in play as a rotten belle. If the rotten belle is in play, it can not also be an upgrade. If an upgrade is removed from the game, the puppet is as well (and vice versa). If a puppet is placed back into the toy box, the upgrade is as well (although upgrades can't be animated from the toy box). And if an upgrade is placed in the scrap heap, the puppet is as well (although most puppets can't animate from the scrap heap). A single stat card is a single entity. Edited December 15, 2011 by Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thanks, that helps a whole lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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