jdomin2 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Don't be so idiotic. Marcus is a completely fine master and doesn't get near enough credit, people are just bad at building lists with him. And UKRocky is obviously a good player. The point of the question was that Kirai managed to lose 27ss worth of models in Slaughter (a good Kirai player will sacrifice low hp models and make new ones, and abuse Ikiryo reuses as he doesnt give Slaughter points, so she's generally quite hard to score points off - scoring more than the game SS total is a poor showing), managed to not kill either of the only two major threats on the board, and didn't destroy evidence tokens (something which she almost cant fail at). Losing is not particularly shocking. Losing 8-0 is. Possibly he just had horrible luck with cards, who knows. Hence the question. Name calling i see? Yeah sorry my comment was lame. I totally agree about ppl building bad lists with him. It doesnt help that his starter had one unplayable model, and two situational at.best. models leaving marcus as the best.thing in the starter. You can definitely see the divide amongst ppl who have legitamely played marcus and those who repeat what they hear at the lgs or on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Name calling i see? Yeah sorry my comment was lame. I totally agree about ppl building bad lists with him. It doesnt help that his starter had one unplayable model, and two situational at.best. models leaving marcus as the best.thing in the starter. You can definitely see the divide amongst ppl who have legitamely played marcus and those who repeat what they hear at the lgs or on the internet. Which model is "unplayable"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Name calling i see? Yeah sorry my comment was lame. I totally agree about ppl building bad lists with him. It doesnt help that his starter had one unplayable model, and two situational at.best. models leaving marcus as the best.thing in the starter. You can definitely see the divide amongst ppl who have legitamely played marcus and those who repeat what they hear at the lgs or on the internet. Also, I didnt play pre Book 2, but with the model selection available in the Book 1 era you can see how he would have been terrible and I think that's kinda stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Also, I didnt play pre Book 2, but with the model selection available in the Book 1 era you can see how he would have been terrible and I think that's kinda stuck. I think is definitely a big factor in Marcus' "stigma." He's a Master that thrives on having a wide variety of Minions, making his crew is very flexible. Unfortunately, with only one book to work with, his crew was much more limited in flexibility. I didn't start playing him until Book 2, but I can definitely say that having 2 books worth of selections (throughout multiple factions,) made his crews much nastier, because I felt like I could better tailor Marcus' crews to suit the needs of the scenario/schemes. Now that we have 3 books worth of models to choose from, Marcus' crew has tremendous flexibility, and I think that ability to mix and match so many different models gives him a very unique strength. Its also made Myranda a more compelling choice which, from a starter box/Book 1 perspective, seemed impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Which model is "unplayable"? Myranda. She just doesnt do anything that cant be done by something else more efficently given his current book 3 model selection imo Also, I didnt play pre Book 2, but with the model selection available in the Book 1 era you can see how he would have been terrible and I think that's kinda stuck. Absolutely. Book one marcus was team neverborn (wald and sil) to have a chance. Currenty he is great against a large variety of strategies and i cant wait to test out the avatar. I think it will be a scary option in situations . Also i think marcus has some strong matchups versus some masters esp pandora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Myranda. She just doesnt do anything that cant be done by something else more efficently given his current book 3 model selection imo Myranda is great now. So versatile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Myranda is great now. So versatile. I don't see what she should be casting. I've heard musings about turning kaeris into a beast (via raptor) for that angle, but thats a lot of points and I feel it deprives marcus of the said versatility discussed in this thread. Maybe Acid Breath? I don't see any lawyer spells she casts better than him. Honestly I don't get it. CB 4? What did you have in mind? Shes a great model and I'd love to test anything you have out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 That is one of her abilities I think least about. I transform her into something as soon as I can. Been going Shikome lately for the maneuverability. If there is a woods terrain piece on the board and I want to move it, I turn her into a Waldgeist. Having trouble with that stupid Seamus making it so you can't get close to Undead? Razorspine for a ranged attack. Can't wait to see what possibilities the bear opens up. If my models are hurt but not dead, I revert back to Myranda and furious cast a few Primal Flames out there - I usually try to hold a few Rams so I can do this around turn 4 if needed. At this point, 3 books in, IMO she is the greatest tool box in the game. She can be whatever I want her to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Personally I would have called Rattler and Sabertooth Cerberus unplayable. Neither of them are close to worth their points. In book 1 they were maybe good but in book 2 era and now book 3 era, they're pretty worthless. Myranda on the other hand, can morph into a Shikome. Nuff said. She's cool. Still wouldn't call her great though. In any case, running Marcus with beasts is limiting yourself for fluff reasons, in much the same way that running Rasputina with December models is. Arcanists do not have a whole variety of great minions as a faction, so sticking to the ones that are great is what makes their masters - who are actually not as gimp as they're made out to be - pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I guess with all the new models I had too narrow a focus of playstyle with myranda (also dissappointment originally from no rogue necro $$$$$$$$ft). I'll definitely give her a shot again. I think ill use her as a 7 point model that can adapt marcus's crew into what it may need stronger at the given time. Doesn't amarcus boost cb? I never understood the cerberus at all or the razorspine. Never did much besides leap then die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Aside from Marrucs, in about 20 games, I've never used, nor felt compelled to use, any models from the boxset (despite them being painted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartre Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Nr.22 please! Thx =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Having trouble with that stupid Seamus making it so you can't get close to Undead? Happy to be of service!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Nr.22 please! Thx =) added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeaDHunTeRfs Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Hi all Played with 2 games with Marcus yesterday I won both:D First one against Hoffman, both masters were killed by turn 2...But marcus his beasts were more resillient apparently xD (Highlight, the Razorspine Rattler killed Ryle in Turn 1 ) Second game was against Nicodem. Nicodem was quickly killed by the shikome, but Marcus got swamped by alot of undead. Bette Noir turned the tide, but a turn too late. (played this game with a model from all the factions That was a lot of fun:D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotmascot Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) As someone who's FLGS community took a big jump into Malifaux, and wants to join Team Marcus, what models should I be looking to get off the bat for my crew? Consensus on the forum seems to be the starting box isn't really a great deal. Right now I'm looking at as presumable must-haves: -Marcus (of course). -Silurids. -Shikome. What else should I be picking up to have a good starting point? For what it's worth, the metagame in my area seems fairly undeveloped, but also relatively populous. The players I'd be playing against most often usually run (Pandora/Lillith/Perdita), Ramos, Rasputina, (Som'er/Seamus/I forget which Neverborn), so I'll with one exception usually know which Master I'll be going up against (not that I'm relying on that in the medium-to-long-term). Aside from them, pretty much every Master is represented, although apparently the Dreamer only really has one player, and from what my experiences with him in other games tells me, he'll have roughly a 50/50 shot of either being damn good with him, or utter crap. Edited August 11, 2011 by robotmascot Needed to add additional data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) You've the right idea of a starting point there. I think Silurids are the backbone of a good "general" Marcus list (fast, good damage output, work well with Companion,) and the Shikome can be very, very powerful, just be careful with her prey ability! I haven't used all of the options available to Marcus (I still haven't tried out some of the Book 2 options like Guild Hounds or Malifaux Raptors,) and I definitely limit myself to using primarily Beast models, but I have a decent amount of experience with the things I've taken. Here are my experiences with various Book 1 and 2 beasts: - Cerberus: Squishy as hell (he's effectively neutered after 4 Wds,) but he can cause very respectable damage if you can leap or leap/charge into the enemy. Can be a fantastic Hunting Partner with the Shikome, especially because Leap can make him ultra mobile. However, if you get stuffed on getting the card you need (9+ of Masks, IIRC,) he's a lot less impressive. - Razorspine: One turn of glory. Its not durable enough to survive the beating it'll take once it gets there, but damn does it get across the table fast! The poison trigger can lead to some nice "bonus" damage on its attacks, and its ranged attack gives you an option for those rare times when you can't close into melee (though I've never had to rely on it.) Not a bad beastie, but also probably a touch more expensive SS-wise than necessary. - Moleman: I initially dismissed them, but for cheap SS minions, these little guys aren't bad! Their biggest issue is their abysmal Wk, but everything else about them is very good for their SS cost. Decent damage potential, great self buffs for Armor, and a freakishly high Wp. I can't ever see running them in numbers (waaaay too slow,) but having one around as a Defend Me! target can be really nice, and they're a decent second line/late game attacker. - Waldgeist: Great with forests, still pretty good without them thanks to decent stats and abilities. The biggest problem with Arcanist beasts tends to be how squishy they are, and Waldgeists make up for that with inherent Armor. Plus, they have built-in Scout, which makes them more mobile than other beast options (why all of the Arcanist beasts don't have Scout, I don't understand.) A very solid beast choice for its cost. Another thing to consider with Marcus: even though his crew can be ultra-fast, there isn't anything locking you into just taking beasts with Marcus. Point of fact, other than a few non-essential abilities, he doesn't do a ton for beasts, so there's nothing wrong with throwing in non-beast models to improve your crew's flexibility. Arcanists have some very useful non-beast models to choose from, and there are plenty of Outcast models that bring interesting abilities to the table (and you can make them beasts via the Raptor if you really want them to benefit from Marcus' abilities.) My next experiment is going to involve the Freikorps Trapper. It can provide some great ranged support, it gives your crew access to Scout if you end up needing it, and there's some synergy with the Trapper's extra damage flips against beasts and Marcus' ability to dole out the beast characteristic. Edited August 11, 2011 by Nephalumps Thought refinement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Arcanists do not have a whole variety of great minions as a faction, so sticking to the ones that are great is what makes their masters - who are actually not as gimp as they're made out to be - pretty good. Been experimenting a little with this idea utilizing Mali Raptors if I want them to be beasts. Mechanical Rider once, was cool but bad positioning got it dead PDQ and it can be so far away that it didn't need beast anyway. SS Miner twice - got hung up trying to beast it once so it was wasted, but had great success with it the other time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 As someone who's FLGS community took a big jump into Malifaux, and wants to join Team Marcus, what models should I be looking to get off the bat for my crew? Consensus on the forum seems to be the starting box isn't really a great deal. Right now I'm looking at as presumable must-haves: -Marcus (of course). -Silurids. -Shikome. What else should I be picking up to have a good starting point? For what it's worth, the metagame in my area seems fairly undeveloped, but also relatively populous. The players I'd be playing against most often usually run (Pandora/Lillith/Perdita), Ramos, Rasputina, (Som'er/Seamus/I forget which Neverborn), so I'll with one exception usually know which Master I'll be going up against (not that I'm relying on that in the medium-to-long-term). Aside from them, pretty much every Master is represented, although apparently the Dreamer only really has one player, and from what my experiences with him in other games tells me, he'll have roughly a 50/50 shot of either being damn good with him, or utter crap. I would also recommend on top of silurid and shikome gunsmith: good support all around lawyer: great support piece, durable, rarely is killed waldgeist: very survivable, don't bet on moving forests if you follow encounter setup correctly, combos wit lawyer for a serious brick Convict gunslinger: overlap with gunsmith, but you can run this guy with the lawyer Night terror: quick movable spirits, don't kill much but they lower wp and can slow down shooty lists, Significant for 3 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 added you in robotmascot and i would say even though marcus is the "Beast Master" don't restrict yourself to just beasts i have always loved running a coryphee duet and im currently experimenting with a snow storm to see what it does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Will post on the discussion above when I get home, on phone atm. Played 2 games tonite. Game 1 - reccoinoitre, kill protegee, sabotage vs Lady J, executioner, judge, ryle, austringer, 2 x death Marshall (claim jump, kill protegee, +2ss) Used; myranda, sabertooth, razorspine, 3 x moles, jackalope. Won 7-0. Game 2 - destroy evidence, stake a claim, Marcus' specific one Vs ophelia, rami, Raphael, slop hauler, 3 x young, 7 gremlins. (slaughter, assassinate, kill protegee) Used; 3 x slurrid, jackalope, sabertooth, waldegeist, desp merc. Won 8-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 added you in robotmascot and i would say even though marcus is the "Beast Master" don't restrict yourself to just beasts i have always loved running a coryphee duet and im currently experimenting with a snow storm to see what it does I've used snowstorm b4 for his foul weather and it was great. Ice pillars also. Great for treasure hunt when i ran no silurids. Helps move slower models and extra movement for marcus makes him an even quicker threat. But alas its 11 points and that is a tough pill to swallow with any master. I wish marcus would ignore special forces requirements on his beasts. I'm sure it won't change but I like the idea of rogue necro, lawyers, and gun smiths all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitetiger Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I would like to join the team. I can't wait until I have my alt marcus painted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I would like to join the team. I can't wait until I have my alt marcus painted! Your wish is my command Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartre Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Hey, I´m new to Malifaux and wanted to ask you guys what you think of my first 30SS Marcus-Hit&Run-List: Marcus + 5SS Pool Jackalope 1SS Shikome 8SS Myranda 7SS Rattler 7SS Night Terror 3SS Night Terror 3 SS I know the Rattler isn´t worth its points, but I really like the model and the Hit&Run play-style of it. Myranda for me is a auto-include, I love her druid-like shapechange - most time to the Cerberus to get the 2 extra attacks. Shikome and the 2 Night Terrors should fly fast to any objectives in the early game. Thanks for your Help! Tim from Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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