Madness vs Sorrow

[ChefsDad]

This is something I've been thinking about recently.

When hiring a crew for Pandora I usually take something like Candy and Kade, or Kade and Teddy or something along those lines to dish out some damage and support for Pandora.

When it comes to hiring the cheaper models though, I'm torn between the Insidious Madness for 4 stones and the Sorrow for 3.

I LOVE the Madness, the it gives is awesome (and frees up Pandora's AP), as is the ability to strip the Wp immunities from models (granted this isn't an issue with Pandora) and the other Wp shenanigans it has. The biggest thing for me I think is that they are ridiculously fast, and they are not insignificant.

The Sorrows bring link, which is nice for getting them about and martyring, and when two or three are linked to Pandora its a potential 2 other Self Loathings or a Project Emotions. Also their mini Emotional Trauma is pretty sick, but you have to get close, and therefore vulnerable. Doldrums is very good, I really like paralyse.

My issue with is their low casting, whereas the Madness's abilities are automatic. Also, they are not as survivable as a Madness, the later being higher Df and Spirit. The biggest issue for me with Sorrows though is that they are insignificant, which kinda annoys me.

If I have the stones, I like to take both. If not, I'm afraid for 1ss more the Madness wins me over every time

What are your thoughts? Do you agree? or can you convince me otherwise

[karn987]

I'm a huge advocate of Sorrows. I've loved them since the day I got them and still use them now over all her other options. You just can't beat the damage output they can give Pandora with Emotional Stress. You link 2 to her, Battle Train your way up the board, Walk once to bring them into position, and then annihilate a model or models because of all the extra Wds they take.

Think of it like this, the most Wds on a model in the game is 12. So 1 Sorrow halves the number of Wp duels it takes to kill that model. 2 quarters it. Those jumps are so hard to ignore and thats just 1 ability on them. Yes they are fragile, but you learn how to protect them and Pandora and when to cut them lose. Because they are so cheap, they are very often disposable and sacing 1 to assure Pandora is safe or nail an enemy model is well worth it.

Now when you consider it's other aiblities, they have a nice ranged Paralyze and a possible massive debuff. Sure their CA is a little low, but when 2 of them spam these spells at once, there is a good chance one of them will get through. Also remember, if Pandora sets up for the Debuff and then attacks, that model is more vulnerable to the Sorrows Doldrums now and stacking Paralyze onto them after they get nailed with Pity + Self Loathing is nasty.

Now the Madness are fantastic models, don't get me wrong about that. But they have a little bit of overlap with Pandora for the Wp immunity stripping (not a big deal really) and PE is very very nice. So while they may actively seem to do more, the Sorrows are actually the more dangerous models. The Madness can't dart in and out like the Sorrows will (while linked to Pandora) and have to stay put to be effective. So they are more prone to dieing I've found even with that solid Df. Plus the Madness can turn around and bite you in the butt! Ever had a Madness with PE slide or pushed into range of Pandora? Not fun ><

So in the end, preference is always the key in these things and no one can tell you how to really play. You have your own play style and that increases and decreases the value of models for you. But I have to say, I think the Sorrows are the better model over-all here and I rarely take anything over them. It does take longer to learn the positioning with the Sorrows and all the little tricks you can do then the Madness. So sometimes things can be overlooked easily (like doing their Magical Spell copy thing after they link to an enemy model ;D).

So I say, Sorrows all the way!

BTW: What are you running that you can't take both of them? There are many styles of Pandora lists but it sounds like your going for the Wp focus with 1 or 2 multitaskers in the list.

[ChefsDad]

Pandora

Primordial Magic

Candy

Kade

3x Sorrow

2x Madness

33ss, 7 Cache

That's the 35 list. But I want to try more heavy hitters and see what i can do with other models, and this will probably involve dropping either the sorrows or the madness.

The sorrows have been underwhelming for me. I think I'm playing them really wrong to be honest. I take it when you say "battle training" you're referring to incite/pacify chains? I've read your tactica (which was very very helpful), but I'm struggling to get the most out of the sorrows.

[96p]

Another good way is to create a deathzone with your sorrows and then pull your enemys right into it with a Lilithu

[karn987]

Another good way is to create a deathzone with your sorrows and then pull your enemys right into it with a Lilithu

Oh definitly, especially if you can get them in there and have Lilitu Paralyze them with her spell. Otherwise the only flaw is you have to wait for a model to not activate yet, or just be ready to deal with whatever the models going to do. I've your've got a high Mask in your hand, go for it and hope for double take. Then once you get them in 4", Paralyze and then they aren't going any where and Pandora has Delivery Pizza basically ;D