New to Vic

[Alondir]

Im new to playing malifaux and started out with the starter set. i got absolutely caned in every match and it tended to be because i was two slow with a lot of people having companions left me still foot slogging forward while i was already engaged with 1 or 2 models.

The started box inc:

Victoria,

Bishop,

Jonah,

Taylor, With 1 SS

After a look over the forums for a 25 point game iv decided to try:

Victoria,

Ronin,

Ronin,

Gunslinger,

Hans, (purely cos I like his sniper)

Giving me 2 SS.

Any idea's for improvements or tactic suggestions are welcome.

[DarkLegacy]

Im new to playing malifaux and started out with the starter set. i got absolutely caned in every match and it tended to be because i was two slow with a lot of people having companions left me still foot slogging forward while i was already engaged with 1 or 2 models.

The started box inc:

Victoria,

Bishop,

Jonah,

Taylor, With 1 SS

After a look over the forums for a 25 point game iv decided to try:

Victoria,

Ronin,

Ronin,

Gunslinger,

Hans, (purely cos I like his sniper)

Giving me 2 SS.

Any idea's for improvements or tactic suggestions are welcome.

Playing Viktoria, I like to keep at least 5 SS available. So, I'd probably play Viktoria (0 Cache), Ronin (5 SS), Ronin (5 SS), Misaki (7 SS) which leaves you with 8 stones left over (the maximum you can have in this size game). If you wanted to play with 5 SS, I'd add the Student of Conflict (3 SS) to be able to give a model fast. A Viktoria, Ronin, or Misaki love to have fast, and it can make the Viktoria slingshot have an extra 5" of threat range (ranged Viktoria moves twice, for 10" move, and then uses Sisters in Spirit to pull the other Viktoria 3" in front of the one that has activated, all with companion going between the two).

I really like the theme of Misaki, the Ronin, and Viktoria, which makes it hard for me to not choose those models in a crew.

[Amarel]

I would take Taelor or Misaki over Hans, personally, as Hans really isn't that good for his cost.

Im new to playing malifaux and started out with the starter set. i got absolutely caned in every match and it tended to be because i was two slow with a lot of people having companions left me still foot slogging forward while i was already engaged with 1 or 2 models.

Warning slight rant follows :

Once your local Meta moves beyond the 'run at each and smash face' stage (which it sounds like yours has), Viktoria is a pretty poor Master (imo).

I love the models and still enjoy trying to make her work but the simple fact is that she has one big offensive trick (which is shorter range than most other Master's and also leaves her completely in the open), no survivability (unless you happen to have one of three particular cards, a Ronin you don't mind sacrificing, and a turn where you can move said Ronin to within two inches of your remaining Vik while your opponent lets that happen), no starting soul stones, and every cool model you can pick, your opponent also has access to (along with all of their own).

You could take your list, swap out Vik for any of the Guild Masters, take Nino instead of Hans (who is better anyway) and then still have six soul stones left to fill out your crew whilst ensuring that you also have between 2 and 4 starting soul stones as well.

All that said, Vik starts to come into her own at slightly higher points values or when you load up on Ronin, but her purpose is really to threaten rather than to achieve, and to mop up the little guys while you avoid the opposing Master.

Frustratingly, for me, she's really close to being a good Master; needing just a couple of tweaks here and there. Her, Bishop and Hans are proof of just how tricky it is to balance the Outcast faction, given their slightly different recruitment rules.

[Alondir]

You haven't mentioned the gun slinger, is he just not worth it at this points cost or that for that theme to work you need to focus on the fast assault?

And Amarel which master would you suggest over the Victoria?

[DarkLegacy]

You haven't mentioned the gun slinger, is he just not worth it at this points cost or that for that theme to work you need to focus on the fast assault?

And Amarel which master would you suggest over the Victoria?

I think the Convict Gunslinger is a great model for the list. I just never use him due to my own, personal theme reasons (I really like the Asian theme and he just doesn't cut it).

Perdita would be a fantastic Guild Master for that type of list, due to her speed and attack outputs.

[Amarel]

You haven't mentioned the gun slinger, is he just not worth it at this points cost or that for that theme to work you need to focus on the fast assault?

I love the Convict Gunslinger. If you're going to take him I'd go with Taelor instead of Misaki as the last member of your group as she can bump him forwards three inches which might be enough to help him get a Rapid Fire off.

And Amarel which master would you suggest over the Victoria?

I'd suggest experimenting first with a couple of proxy games to see which best suits you. All of the Guild Masters are very good, but I have a hard time recommending them (because, well, they're Guild :slap:). The Neverborn are tricksy, the Resurrectionists are all pretty hardy and able to make new friends, the Arcanists fall somewhere between them.

It's probably best to play Vik in a couple more games (as you've got them) and see which direction you want to explore more - with her crew you can test out ranged, melee and some tricks so there's a decent coverage.

[Trag Sifarin]

After playing quite a few games with Vik I think she is a very powerful master. She also is fairly easy to use. Once you start sling shot her into combat and she kills 3 or 4 guys, you don't really care if she dies. She also fares well with a lot of Soul Stones, because she has a low amount of wounds. Being able to put your master in situations that are a little hairy and not worry about losing her because you can bring her back is pretty awsome(also why you need stones). Ronin are one of the best 5 stone guys in the game. Run through is pretty awesome, if not slightly broken:)

Anyway I Usually take something along these lines:

Vik

Convict Gunslinger

Misaki

Ronin to Fill out the list

In closing I would say don't give up on her yet, you just probably have to find the Outcasts that play to your style.

[Amarel]

Certainly there's a degree of 'your mileage may vary' with regards to local meta / your gaming group, but in mine I would never have the chance to 'slingshot Vik into combat and kill 3 or 4 guys'.

To be honest, I think her simplicity is probably her biggest issue - everyone knows what she can do and so it's relatively simple to avoid, or at least mitigate.

Her slingshot tactic is her 'schtick', and the absolute maximum range she can get on her own is 5" walk, 3" place, 5" walk, 5" walk, 2" melee range - a very respectable 20". But at the end of that she'll have one unbuffed paired attack, which isn't going to take much out, and will leave her very open to death the next round (with no defensive triggers or abilities she's super squidgy). By every notch you reduce her range by you get more effective in combat (e.g. 7" charge rather than 2 x 5" walks and you've got an extra attack with on the damage; remove the initial 5" walk from Vik1 and you'll very likely cast Sisters in Battle for an additional buff) but in return you're more likely placing both Viks in danger of retribution due to their reduced distance from threat.

As for 'bringing her back' I've managed that just once. You need one of only three cards in the deck (which you can't then use elsewhere, of course), a Ronin alive and within 2" of the remaining Vik and for the remaining Vik to then use all of her turn to summon the other. If you manage this it's a lucky bonus rather than something you can rely on.

As stated above, she's basically more reliant on her crew to get her through than any of the other Master's are. And, of course, any other Master can hire any of her crew they feel like (at least partially mitigating the effectiveness of her crew choice at this point).

But the reason we play is for fun, and she certainly can be fun to play if you can get the best from the movement of her and her crew. She's just not very powerful unless your opponent helps out with bad placement.

All that said, I should caveat this post with the fact that I'm not a brilliant Vikki player (she's likely not 'my kind of Master' so don't take anything I say as gaming fact, just an opinion that others will no doubt disagree with .

[Trag Sifarin]

As for 'bringing her back' I've managed that just once. You need one of only three cards in the deck (which you can't then use elsewhere, of course), a Ronin alive and within 2" of the remaining Vik and for the remaining Vik to then use all of her turn to summon the other. If you manage this it's a lucky bonus rather than something you can rely on.

It is a spell so you could chuck another stone at it that way the card you need can be much lower then the 3 cards you can use to straight out cheat it.

Personally I like the Activate Vik and companion both behind cover. Use 1 action with the 1 sword Vik to give a buff and the second action to push the other Vik out into charge range. Second Vik charges and will probably get some whirlwind going on for one of the two attacks she will have.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Trag Sifarin

[Amarel]

It is a spell so you could chuck another stone at it that way the card you need can be much lower then the 3 cards you can use to straight out cheat it.

You're a braver man than me . Unless I could cheat to very close to the number need (i.e. a face card of the correct suit) then I wouldn't risk 3 Soul Stones, the remaining Vik's turn and, quite likely, the Ronin's turn to boot.

Personally I like the Activate Vik and companion both behind cover. Use 1 action with the 1 sword Vik to give a buff and the second action to push the other Vik out into charge range. Second Vik charges and will probably get some whirlwind going on for one of the two attacks she will have.

This is where gaming group / local meta variances kicks in, I guess. There is very little chance of my opponents letting me do that unless they're throwing junk at me to try and tempt me out into a bad place. Even with the maximum range on that 'attack' being 14" (move, charge, melee range) it still puts it at less than the reach of Lure, for example, or a Pandora IPSI* run, and at the end of it you're still standing in the open.

*[incite -> Pity -> Self-Loathing -> Incite]

[DarkLegacy]

Her slingshot tactic is her 'schtick', and the absolute maximum range she can get on her own is 5" walk, 3" place, 5" walk, 5" walk, 2" melee range - a very respectable 20". But at the end of that she'll have one unbuffed paired attack, which isn't going to take much out, and will leave her very open to death the next round (with no defensive triggers or abilities she's super squidgy). By every notch you reduce her range by you get more effective in combat (e.g. 7" charge rather than 2 x 5" walks and you've got an extra attack with on the damage; remove the initial 5" walk from Vik1 and you'll very likely cast Sisters in Battle for an additional buff) but in return you're more likely placing both Viks in danger of retribution due to their reduced distance from threat.

These are not the maximums for a Viktoria's charge range. I almost always get a greater charge range because I use the Student of Conflict to give one of my Viktoria's fast. This allows you to play around with the number of moves/charges/Sisters in Spirit/Sisters in Battle usage to get the optimal for your current situation.

The "optimum" threat range I use most is: 5" walk + 5" walk + 3" place + 8" charge + 2" melee range = 23" threat range with two attacks at the end (charge + Melee Expert). This is using Fast on the gun Viktoria to get the extra walk. The maximum I can come up with using Fast on the gun Viktoria is 5" walk + 5" walk + 3" place + 5" walk + 5" walk + 2" melee range = 25" threat range with one attack.

I personally only use the 23" threat after my Ronin have burned my opponent's hand out of cards, to make the threat of the charge that much deadlier.

[Amarel]

These are not the maximums for a Viktoria's charge range. I almost always get a greater charge range because I use the Student of Conflict to give one of my Viktoria's fast. This allows you to play around with the number of moves/charges/Sisters in Spirit/Sisters in Battle usage to get the optimal for your current situation.

The "optimum" threat range I use most is: 5" walk + 5" walk + 3" place + 8" charge + 2" melee range = 23" threat range with two attacks at the end (charge + Melee Expert). This is using Fast on the gun Viktoria to get the extra walk.

True, I wasn't counting the SoC (and I also listed her charge range as 7", not 8"). Do you always take the SoC? How's he working out for you? I want to like him more than I do, I mean he gives Fast, which is amazing on the Viks, but his lack of link (meaning if you give Fast on a non-critical turn he's now lagging behind) and the Viks lack of a decent AP1 spell for him to use make me love him less than I think I should.

[DarkLegacy]

True, I wasn't counting the SoC (and I also listed her charge range as 7", not 8"). Do you always take the SoC? How's he working out for you? I want to like him more than I do, I mean he gives Fast, which is amazing on the Viks, but his lack of link (meaning if you give Fast on a non-critical turn he's now lagging behind) and the Viks lack of a decent AP1 spell for him to use make me love him less than I think I should.

The Student doesn't need link, as it doesn't use Fast until turns 2 or 3, after it has double moved first turn to get into position. It may be expensive for just that turn of Fast, but it does give you an edge.

[Amarel]

The Student doesn't need link, as it doesn't use Fast until turns 2 or 3, after it has double moved first turn to get into position. It may be expensive for just that turn of Fast, but it does give you an edge.

Definitely expensive for the single turn effect, but more use defensively if you could keep him in one place and work the rest of your crew out from him over several consequtive turns. Not that I ever manage to play Vik defensively, no matter how hard I try ,

[Amarel]

Just wanted to add in to this, following on from a game last night. It was 35ss (a size which better suits Viktoria, imo, than lower point games) and having lost a Viktoria at the end of turn two* I was presented with the perfect opportunity to bring her back (first turn, Ronin within 2" of remaining Vik, 12 :rams in control deck). I was just about to activate Vik, when I played out the next turn in my head and realised that the Ronin was actually going to be far more effective and had a better chance of surviving to boot (which turned out to be very true).

The moral of the story? Once you realise that the purpose of the Viks is purely to let you hire Outcasts - and that if you have to choose between a Ronin and a Vik, keep the Ronin alive - your Vik crew will play better.

I know it sounds glib, but it's honestly proper advice.

* In case you're interested: she'd taken the final health off of a Belle with a pistol shot and was then lured by the Belle with her Slow to Die action, before The Hanged (as the next to activate) cast Hangman's Knot and Whisper from Beyond on her (all of this within Seamus' Trail of Fear). With a couple of Health left the next thing to breathe near her killed her (a Punk Zombie, as a I recall). Got a bit unlucky with an additional soul stone flip (anything but an ace... Oh.) but pretty much nothing I could do about it.

[Trag Sifarin]

Well I got 3rd at a local tournament with Vik out of about 10 people. Vik also won first. It was a guy from WI that liked student of conflict. Was it you Dark Legacy?

[DarkLegacy]

Well I got 3rd at a local tournament with Vik out of about 10 people. Vik also won first. It was a guy from WI that liked student of conflict. Was it you Dark Legacy?

Yeah, it was. The Student of Conflict was in all of my lists that day, and he did fantastic.

[Amarel]

Congrats.

What was your list(s)? Any quick battle reports?

[DarkLegacy]

Games 1 and 3 played List A. Game 2 played List B. All games were 35 SS. Scenarios were dictated before the game started, and they were the same for both people. Schemes couldn't be taken twice unless they were faction specific.

List A:

Viktoria (0 SS Cache)

Student of Conflict (3 SS)

Convict Gunslinger (5 SS)

Misaki (7 SS)

Ronin (5 SS)

Ronin (5 SS)

Ronin (5 SS)

Total Cost: 30 SS Total Cache: 5 SS

List B:

Viktoria (0 SS Cache)

Student of Conflict (3 SS)

Misaki (7 SS)

Ronin (5 SS)

Ronin (5 SS)

Ronin (5 SS)

Ronin (5 SS)

Total Cost: 30 SS Total Cache: 5 SS

Game 1 I played against a Belle list with Seamus. Scenario was Reconnoiter. I took the schemes of Thwart and Holdout. I announced both schemes. We also played with the terrain special rule of -1 WP on defending duels. Game was fast and brutal. Itsnotallison was my opponent. Her list was: Seamus, Copycat Killer, Sybelle, 3 Rotten Belles, Bette Noir. She killed one of my Ronin first turn, and second turn, got Seamus up in the Viktoria's grill with Terrifying and the -2 WP effects. This led to the Student running for a turn, but the Viktorias went all out on Seamus, killing him. I then went and slowly started murdering everything in an effort to deny any chance of victory for Itsnotallison. Game end, 8 VPs for me, 0 for her.

Game 2 I played against McMourning construct list. I've never played against him and was interested to see what he could do. We were playing Claim Jump. I announced the schemes of Thwart and Bodyguard. We had Heavy Snow for a weather effect. Victor (the Resurrectionist) played the following list: McMourning, Zombie Chihuahua, Sebastian, Nurse, 2 Necropunks, 2 Canine Remains, Killjoy. Turn 1 he summoned a Flesh Construct, killing one of his dogs. My ronin moved up into two vertical forests in the center area of the board, surrounding the Claim. Turn 2, Victor moves up, I kill both Flesh Constructs he gets on the board this turn with Ronin. Turn 3, I kill another Flesh Construct and kill Killjoy when he pops from a Necropunk. Turn 4, I kill McMourning, standing in the Claim. Turns 5 and 6, wiping out all remaining models. Game end, 8 VPs for me, 0 for Victor.

Game 3 was versus Pipeline, I believe. Scenario was Treasure Hunt with 1 objective. I announced Thwart and Breakthrough. We had Heat Wave special effect. Pipeline played Perdita, Nino, Judge, 3 Death Marshals, Witchling Stalker. I'm not 100% sure on his list. The Treasure is in rough terrain, about 2.5" surrounding it. Turn 1, he sends Perdita racing forward to grab the Treasure. Ends up short due to the terrain. I slingshot Viktoria forward with fast to grab the treasure due to the pushing of Sisters in Spirit. My crew moves up, Judge moves to middle, rest get ready for shooting. Turn 2 sees Perdita die due to her trying to kill Viktoria but failing. I burned a majority of my soulstones up surviving, but so did he. Viktorias lay waste to Perdita. Viktoria with swords walks back to deployment area rest of game, rest of the crew slowly eliminates all of his crew. Game ends, 8 VPs for me, 0 for him.

I found that the easiest way for me to win games was just to eliminate my opponents' crews as fast as I could with Ronin. I took out the key pieces first, either the buffers or hard hitters. This left the rest of my crew fairly free to do what they needed to to win.

Edit: I want to apologize for any mistakes I make in lists or game reports. It was a fun and long day, and I didn't adequately explain a lot of the terrain on the table. All of my opponents were true sportsmen/sportswoman and took the beating that the Viktorias did in stride.

Edited April 16, 2010 by DarkLegacy
Clarification

[DarkLegacy]

Also, favorite quote to come out of any of the games that day.

Me: "Misaki casts Wind on herself".

Itsnotallison: "Misaki, she's like the wind!"

Oh, fun times indeed.

[itsnotallison]

I try to provide puns whenever possible =P

[Amarel]

Great write-ups, thanks. Sounds like there were some well played battles there.

Interesting to note that my default list is quite similar to yours (listed elsewhere but... Viks, Gunslinger, 3 x Ronin, Hamelin) in 35pts and it also is doing a rather good turn in the competitive stakes. I've finally finished painting Misaki so will likely give her a run out soon (was planning to swap her in for a Ronin, though, which seems at odds with your general view, but will give it a go). I'll definitely get a Student of Conflict as soon as they're out though, he certainly seems to give a good edge.

[Trag Sifarin]

My set up for all 3 games was:

Vik

Gunslinger

3x Ronin

Misaki

8 stones

Game 1 was VS Zoraida

It was wooded per the random terrain and was scenario was Reconnoiter. The Ronin took care on the Slurid early and Misaki/Ronin combo took down bad Juju. Zoraida fell to Vik after trying to poison her(she would have died on activation). I killed all of his guys on turn 4. I got 6 points total, I missed 2 because of Eye for an Eye scheme.

Game 2 was VS Seamus

The Scenario was Claim Jump and it was a hot day.

Vik actually jumped into combat turn 1 and killed the Copycat Killer and would have killed the oter 1 or 2 if not for the Black Joker. The game ended with 3 of each of our guys on the hill so no point for that, so I got a total of 4 that game.

Game 2 was VS Seamus

The Scenario was Treasure Hunt (1 token) and it was wooded again.

Vik was shot forward to get the treasure token passed it to the other Vik on turn 2 then went to town picking off the stragglers from his the army. Then when the time came jumped in and took out Seamus with some help from Sisters in Battle and a Ronin. The other highlight was Misaki killing Sybelle and a Punk Samurai in one activation (got to love fire on her halberd and Ten Thunders Strike). I got full 8 points for this battle.

All in all I don't think I did to bad considering I had gunslinger in the woods twice:bawling: Misaki is always a good choice when you need high willpower that is why she was in both times. All in all a want to try Taelor out against undead more. She seems really good vs them with a high willpower and lifer (Hard to kill and Wound don't hurt either).

[Amarel]

Thanks again for the quick bat reps.

I find it very interesting that neither of you seem to have the same issue as me keeping Vik alive. I play Seamus quite often and if I don't kill him, you can write off anyone that is within 10", or so, of him.

Also, I always take Hamelin (Height1 avoidance, removing corpse counters and forcing insignificant), yet neither of you do. Is this a case of preference, or simply that you like what you have and see no need to change?

[Trag Sifarin]

Also, I always take Hamelin (Height1 avoidance, removing corpse counters and forcing insignificant), yet neither of you do. Is this a case of preference, or simply that you like what you have and see no need to change?

Hamlin tends to eat your hand to cast his spells. I just prefer to keep them for protecting/aiding Vik.