Help with Viks vs Seamus

[Arkanthaes]

My most common opponent plays a Seamus list, and always grinds me into the dirt. He plays:

Seamus

Sybelle

3 Belles

Punk Zombie

I've been playing:

Viks

Taelor

Johan

Bishop/ Convict Gunslinger and Ronin

I can't contend with his luring: Sybelle and Seamus are damaging enough to decimate anyone apart from Taelor and Johan, who he just ignores because they're relatively slow. I can't stay out of his range due to the constant barrage of lures that are damn near impossible to resist (the usual targets only have Wp 5 or 6, meaning a Belle's lure can't be stopped without a soulstone if she flips a 12), and once they've gone off I'm in range of the shooting.

I tend to advance flankwise: The Viks on one, the others on the other side, with the gun Vik taking slightly more dangerous routes because that allows me to leapfrog sword Vik into combat with Sisters in Battle. I target Sybelle and the Punk Zombie first: a good round of combat will kill either and leave him with only Seamus as his damage dealer. Assuming I'm in combat, I can cope with that.

I still get destroyed each and every game. Any advice?

[ork56]

I would try and stay closer together, although Seamus' terrifying spell is a pain.

When he lures one in, think of it as a free move(s) I wouldnt waste good cards trying to stop a lure unless I know it will put me in charge range of his fighters.

Does he always try and target a particular mini of yours? Luring the gunfighter could put him in a spot if you can get his spell off to make them discard to activate. If he lures a Vik, then he is asking for trouble as you will skip the other one in for double trouble.

Always concentrate your attacks to wipe stuff out - maybe Seamus is the one to target first if you can get enough models in melee in one round.

Maybe proxy Hans for some long ranged damage?

Dont forget S. can only shoot once a turn.

Def go for the PZ before Sybelle as she doesnt do as much damage

Taelor is a beast in combat so make every opportunity to be running her where she cant be ignored. I have seen mixed reports on Johan, maybe he is the one to swap for Hans/another ronin?

Lastly. are you looking for a fight, or remembering to play the scenario? Its not always necessary to get up close to win the game.

[Arkanthaes]

He usually targets the Viks, Bishop or the Ronin first, as he knows they're relatively squishy. He tends only to lure the gun Vik, especially if she's not going to be going through terrain or has already activated: This ensure's the swor'd vik's out of the 6" companion range.

Between Shriek, the Flintlock and Self Mutilate, I tend to lose the model he lure's almost straight away.

I do try to concentrate my attacks, It's just not always easy as I only tend to have one or two models left to concentrate with by time I get into combat.

As for scenario's we always try to do them. As of yet, it's been Reconoiter for me, Treasure Hunt for him all but once.

I'll try with Hans, later today hopefully. Thanks for the tips!

[Slinkdawg]

Make sure to use the terrain to your advantage. The Seamus crew will not have you beat on speed, so any time that you can make them need to maneuver and move to eat up their AP, do it.

Also with the Viks in general, I am learning that sometimes keeping both of them within 6" for companion can be overrated. Sometimes, when your opponent has some big damage or a plan waiting for them, you are better off keeping one vik far away.

You can run the Viki's 2 places at once. Send in something survivable like Taelor or cage fighting bishop with Df 8. (Bishop can advance once and charge for 2 total AP) If your opponent goes for it and activates Seamus to try and take down your initial attacker. For max fun, you could try to choke Seamus using Bishop's strikes and slow him down.

:viktoria2 should just cast the buff spell (+2 damage buff) and advance into position.

Then, :viktoria1 should use sisters in spirit to switch, charge in, and swing away with paired swords.

The key point is, make Seamus activate, then it won't matter if the viki's cannot companion. Last, make sure the viki's bring some soulstones (and decent cards) to the fight, so you can win those key Wp and Df flips when you need to.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Slinkdawg

[Joona]

How much terrain are you using? The rulebook recommends about half of the table covered with some kind of terrain. There should be plenty to stop too many unwanted lures happening. Especially when you get Reconnoiter and aren't really forced to stand in plain sight. If you don't have enough terrain, get some more or use beer cans or books or something like that. This game really needs the terrain.

Listwise, you could probably use more models so it wouldn't hurt that much to lose one or two. This of course depends on game size, but is very important especially in Reconnoiter if you are trying to go for killing some of the opponents models in addition to claiming the 4VP for being every where. Maybe something like the Convict and filling the rest of the list with Ronin and a couple of stones for maximum fun :vb_tongue Hans is most likely also worth a try with the nice headshot trigger. Used later in turn it can be quite devastating on the undead with their low defence. And Bishop should sort of be less squishy than a Viktoria...

[Amarel]

Seamus is quite the pain to fight, isn't he? A good player will be shifting you around and preventing you from getting a charge off under normal circumstances. Really any crew that can control movement / play-order choice messes up Vikki quite badly - your chance of getting the much needed alpha-strike is lost (or at least, severely diminished) and she doesn't have the health or defensive tricks for playing cat and mouse.

You need to distract him and force him to concentrate on other targets other than Vikki, so...

I'd drop Bishop straight away; he's expensive in a 25pt game for what he brings. Both his limited board control and his single-AP reach can be better provided elsewhere.

Hamlin is good replacement for him as his board control is better, he has a ranged element if needed and he can destroy corpse counters for free. He has use a no matter when he is activated, too. Black Death is just the icing on his hate cake.

Misaki has the single-AP reach that you're likely going to need and has enough tools to be as bigger pain to him as Bishop is, but at lower cost with a higher average damage output. And she's a cracking model. All around win.

However this brings us to Taelor; I like her a lot, but once Bishop has been dropped and you're concentrating less on the throwing bodies into combat approach, she can feel a little out on a limb, especially given that she's a little bit ploddy with no ranged weapon to supplement to her hammer-to-face action. Don't feel bad about a trying a game without her, she won't mind too much. Although I wouldn't like to go in without either her or Johan, as either of them will take longer to take down than most other options.

Convict Gunslinger and Ronin you likely already know are pretty great .

Edited February 19, 2010 by Amarel
teh grammah