Paired Weapons Talent

[Noth]

Our FM, a fellow player, and I are trying to figure out just how "Paired Weapons" works.  

I have PW: Pugilism and she has PW: Revolver.  We feel we understand the majority of the description but where we are haveing trouble is the last line.  "The character makes only one attack Flip using both weapons."  Does this mean I am doing damage from both weapons?  As in, I do the one attack flip at the talent says and then flip twice for damage (once from each of the weapons)?

[TimH]

From my understanding what this means that you only spend the AP for using 1 weapon and make a single attack flip/damage flip but with the other benefits described by PW.

What I'm uncertain on myself is if (for ranged weapons) this expends 1 ammo from each weapon per shot or only one from one weapon of your choice.

[Noth]

We had originally thought similarly, but it specifically says to make one attack Flip only.  If it said one attack and one damage flip... or even left out that last sentence completely, we wouldn't be having an issue.  Something else that has come up while we were discussing this is that you can spend around 40+ Script to make a pneumatic/folded steel/enlarged sword for one hand and get a 2 Script knife for the off hand and still hit with all sorts of bonuses and damage from the expensive sword.  So what would be the point in upgrading the off hand weapon?  But we were also thinking if you did do the damage from both weapons, that would end up smearing a lot of enemies around the room. 

So we are at a lose.  We have gone around and around on way to read the Talent, but haven't been able to settle on anything that seems to fit.  Some ways it seems pointless to take it compared to other Talents and other ways it seems like the end all of combat talents.

One thing we did settle one is that it would use a round from both ranged weapons reasoning that the positive flip comes from the target no knowing which way to go to get out of the way.  If he shifts left there is a gun aimed there and right there is a gun aimed there as well.  We related it to the "one-two" punching effect that would happen in melee range, when boxing you don't use one hand to fight but rather both to try and catch your opponent off guard.

But yeah, it's just that last sentence that is throwing us and even causing any real questions over it at our table.  Why would it bother to specify one attack flip and not specify one damage flip...

[Anarchy Black]

I'm pretty sure the benefit of using 2 weapons is that you get a + flip on the attack. twice the chance to hit so to speak.

It doesn't mean you necessarily hit with both weapons just that your chance to hit improves.

and yes for ranged weapons both would expend a bullet.

as to why you would have 2 good weapons one in each hand, well thing about having say a sword in one hand and a whip in the other.. sure you can attack with both getting a +flip for using paired weapons or you could just hit with the sword in the one hand doing whatever swords do etc. or with just the whip on it's own etc.

[Mason]

Paired Weapons says that you "choose a Close Combat or Ranged Combat skill of rank 3 or higher. The character gains to his attack flip when wielding two of the weapon."

The italicized emphasis is mine. You only gain the bonus if you are using two weapons belonging to the chosen skill type (i.e., two Pistol weapons, two Melee weapons, etc.). Using weapons of differing types together - such as a Pistol Weapon and a Melee weapon - doesn't grant the bonus.

When you use the Talent, you make a single attack with one of the weapons which has a to the attack flip. If you hit, you deal damage for the weapon you used to attack.

All the second weapon does is grant you the to your attack flip. If you are using guns, both weapons fire bullets.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Mason

[Noth]

I agree with everything your all saying about most of what the description of the talent reads.  I am not disagreeing with what you have said and took the talent with my character for that same benefit you've all described.  The positive flip works well both thematically, opponent not sure which weapon will be hitting and harder to move out of the way, and as a mechanic in the rules, I hit every time I swing thanks to this talent.  Though I am still having issues with that last sentence in the description of the talent.  It says "The character makes only one attack Flip using both weapons.", specifying one attack flip.  If it had been written to read "The character makes only one attack and damage Flip using both weapons." then I would not be questioning this at all.  Heck, if that sentence wasn't present at all I doubt I would be questioning it.  I tried looking in the errata and FAQ thinking after a year I couldn't be the only one questioning the choice of wording here, but I could find nothing.

[Holmes221]

Well with someone from the staff further explaining the mechanic, your confusion should be ended.  Also the fact that the both in Malifaux and TTB a damage flip is not actually a part of the duel this should be self explanatory.  I am not saying that the wording could have been more clear, simply that with the description of the basic rules in the book as a guideline and the further details provided by Mason that your confusion should be cleared up.

[Mason]

I'll toss it into the next FAQ update in case anyone else has questions about it.

[Noth]

Holmes221, why the hostility?  As I've not played Malifaux, since the only group of people I can find in my area playing do so at a bar, and I've only had a handful of games for TTB, I do not believe I should be expected to have as firm a grasp of the rules as others.

 

Mason, thank you.  I'd like to think I'm not the only one who was having questions on that but didn't want to ask for fear of being thought ignorant by others on the boards for not immediately understanding something.

[Holmes221]

I apologize.  I reread my post and it did come off as hostile, that wasn't my intent.