regleant

What are you trying to accomplish with Charm Warder and Illuminated? I've never used my Charm Warder as it feels too niche as an anti-summoning tech piece. I do love Illuminated with Lynch, but I'm not sure what it brings to the table, here.

EDIT: Not trying to be critical or dissuade you, just trying to understand it.

I've only gotten in one game with her and would like to get more. I decided to go pretty much all-in on her Gather Intel ability and run models that love being pushed and tangled up with the enemy. I also realized that she really doesn't care about her keyword at all, and decided that Distraction is a trap. So what I ran and why:

• Youko, Unseen
• Chiyo
• Bill Algren (Durable, heals himself)
• Hinamatsu (Durable, mobile, has Lure)
• Kabuki Warrior with Silent Protector (Combat Finesse would do well against a melee-based opponent, and helps him survive when shoved into melee, the Silent Protector to give him that one bit more survivability)
• Dawn Serpent (can light things on fire, heals himself can remove himself from combat whenever he wants, and Counterspell is irritating)
• Lust (Weird one, here. I just wanted to use "Now kiss!" to keep opponent's models away from Strategy markers)
• 6 Soulstones (this is about normal for me)

It was an oddball mix of characters designed for some board board control and placement shenanigans. I did win, but that was partly because my opponent tried Titania2 for the first time and just couldn't get the list to click. Youko just went to where she was needed / safe on the board, did her card tricks, and pushed models around. I think the shock of such durability from Youko threw off my opponent.

Then I thought what if I get really crazy...

• Youko, Unseen
• Chiyo
• Bill Algren 
• Hinamatsu
• Dawn Serpent
• The Lone Sworsman
• Izamu, the Armor
• 4 Soulstones

It looks like it could go really really well, or really really poor. I'll have to make smart use of Pass tokens and not push limits of durability. I also considered dropping Hinamatsu for a Samurai given the lower Soulstone count.

What have others tried?

22 minutes ago, Adran said:

Does last breath tell you to take an action?

 Actions generated by charge only don't produce a shadow marker because they are specifically called out as not counting to generate shadow markers. In all other circumstances they are just the same as attacks generated by obey or triggers or other abilities. 

Tactical Action: Last Breath: Until end of this activiation, this model's Actions receive a positive flip to their duals and damage flips against the target. Then Push this model 5" towards the target and take a melee Action targeting it.

Part of me says that the attack is simply part of the Last Breath description. There's nothing "generated." That's why I am confused. This Tactical Action simply tells you to make an attack.

Opportunist (Focused): Before performing an opposed duel, this model may end the Focused condition to receive a positive flip to that duel.

When The Carver declares an attack against a model with Focused, does the target of the attack get to use Focused before it is ended by Opportunist? And specifically where in the timing allows it? I've tried following the timing charts but none seem to apply to this situation. Or I'm blind. The latter sometimes happens..

Here's a weird one - what about abilities like "Last Breath?" Does the attack in that ability count as "generated?" I think it falls in the same category as a Charge, no?

7 hours ago, Adran said:

 

But otherwise anything that is covered by the Action generated by effects call out box (page70).

 

Everything you said helps, except page 70. My PDF only goes to page 53. 

6 hours ago, Adran said:

They can each drop one on their activation, but it's not automatically going to happen, you need to gain fast or take an extra action some how ( obey, onslaught, co- ordinated attack, that sort of thing) and the melee attack from charge doesn't count for this ability. 

I'm sure you could build a list that would create more than 8, but it's not all that likely.

Spreading Influence: "After a Last Blossom or enemy model takes an action generated from any non-Charge effect or gains Fast, Drop a Shadow Marker into base contact with it."

Let's talk about this a bit, because it seems I don't understand it. First is the word "generated." What does this actually mean?  What are examples? I first read this ability to mean that if my model simply took a Walk action, I could drop a Shadow Marker, because it was not a Charge. Is "generated" to mean "extra"? What actually qualifies?

• Crime Boss: Thunders Territory - Gang Warfare? It's a generated attack
• Crime Boss: Nagamaki - Unworthy of her attention? It's drawing a card, is that an action?
• Crime Boss: Pressure - If you are able to control the opponent's model, does that count?
• Ototo: Storm is Coming - Unexpected Smoke Bomb? Does being placed count as taking an action?
• Torakage: Shuriken - Onslaught? It's a generated attack
• Reposition? As it's a move. 
• Or is the list of actions only what is permitted on Page 22: Interact, Disengage, Concentrate, Assist, Walk, Charge (and any specific action called out on the model's card).

Those are the only examples I could find that might count as "generated action." I realized that the question seems basic, but I want to understand the minutia before I put it on the table and confuse people.

Thanks!

Was just looking over this model with some friends, and I want to be sure I understand it right for the list building. The ability Spreading Influence is a "Once Per Activation" that allows Misaki to drop Shadow Markers B2B with enemy and Last Blossom models.

With Misaki1, I tend to have issues with being shot off the board by my opponents.

Does this ability effectively allow each Last Blossom model to walk forward and bring their own Concealment on Turn 1? Dropping in front of the enemy has different uses, but I'm looking at this ability as a potential delivery system. Last Blossom ranged models ignore Concealment, too, which is pretty cool (except for Crime Boss and Pressure, but I've maybe twice ever used it). 

So my first thought is a Delivery system. My second thought is that the 8 Shadow Markers I made for Misaki1 won't be nearly enough for this...

The thread linked above is the most "definitive" group alignment I've seen on the topic. Should Wyrd issue it in a FAQ? Yes, absolutely. Does not adding the +2 until the very end, but having to use before you cheat cause a negative play experience? Yes, absolutely. I agree it should be cleaned up, but for now I will continue playing as the Rules Forums have determined.

Sorry I missed a question on Jin. 

• Ambush: If this model is in Concealing Terrain... Is a Shadow Marker "terrain"? I think no.

Looking a little more at this master, a few questions come up:

• Corrupted Familiar: Friendly Shang Models are treated as Destructible Concealing Shadow Markers. Does this mean that Shang no longer is treated as a model, and that
  • Line of Sight can be drawn through him
  • He grants Concealment
  • Models can end their movement on top of him
• Twisting Path: Target much have Concealment  vs. Wilting Tsubaki. 
  • I'd have to say it wouldn't make sense that a model can have Concealment for certain abilities and Wilting Tsubaki prevents her from actually using her abilities, but....
  • I want to confirm that the Concealment always comes from the perspective of the attacking model. That is, if a Shadow Marker is right in front of Misaki, then every model she is targeting effectively has Concealment. 

1 hour ago, Cursed25 said:

you have to declare using the chi after flipping but the +2 is only added for the final duel total! Every modifier works like that. So chi don't change anything for the order of who have to cheat first.

Just to be sure we're saying the same thing - 

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/148821-chi-vs-cheating/?sortby=date

Thinking about the 2nd part of the question, many of my learning games were with Shenlong, and I won a respectable number of games as a beginner. This is because:

• High River Monks and Wandering River Monks have movement tricks that help them ignore the enemy and focus on the points. High River Monks are also capable of dealing out the damage when pressed
• The amount of Focused, Fast, and Chi tokes for +2 to duals (which have to happen prior to anyone cheating, which is weird but the rule) allows Monks to win more duals on average. 
• There is some Condition Removal, and adding the Drunken Trash Panda (Tanuki) helps even more, and may help against Jack Daw.

Also Jack Daw is a pretty amazing, condition-heavy Master. Shame on you for throwing that into a new player.

Weird. I guess your friend doesn't play any strategic games, then. No Warmachine, no Magic: the Gathering, no 40k, and very few board games, because they wall require the same concept of learning both what you can do as well as your opponent. He's not wrong that the time commitment is high. The heuristic I've heard is that it takes about 20 games to be comfortable. Multiply that by ~2 hours per game, and it's certainly an investment.

Personally, I prefer Malifaux because I've truly found very few bad match-ups. There should be as much OR MORE attention paid to how to solve the strategy and schemes as solving your opponent's army, and that can keep new players going. Malifaux is not in of itself a combat game. Some keywords play that way, and certainly models die on both sides. But your friend may not be as strategic as he thinks.  

EDIT: none of this answers the 2nd part of your question. I'll have to think about that. 

Just reading the card, doesn't Exclusive Interview take precedence here so long as it's triggered within 2", which allows the Interact action to be "controlled by this model?" That would mean after declaring Headlines: Secrets Exposed, that Exclusive Interview is triggered, as well as Breaking News?

I would have let you do it. It’s a friendly  model that needs to see 3 markers, and Rolling Stones allows it to be counted as a marker.  
 

happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t understand why it wouldn’t work. terrain markers are markers.

Gather Intel: Push the target up to 5" in any direction, ignoring other models.

Wanyudo: After resolving an action in which this model moved through one or more models, those models must each pass a TN 12 MV duel or suffer 1 damage and Burning.

So if Gather Intel ignores other models, does Wanyudo count as having moved through them?

11 hours ago, Jinn said:

I was going to try out Terracottas in my next game with McCabe, but my opponent declared Nekima and I decided not to risk it. 

 

That sounds like the perfect opportunity to risk it.  

Just my 2 cents without any testing - 

Terracotta: I expect to use him MORE often, now. He's far more difficult to remove, and can be used in a pinch to protect my more-expensive pieces. I like that. It saves cards that would otherwise have been used to cheat on defense, and makes low-end cards worthwhile for something. Just a personal shield guard for all of our squishy masters. Honestly, I never could find a reason to take them, before.

Fuhatsu: I think I see what they did, there. His own damage output is greatly reduced, his survivability is lower without Soul Stones, but he maintained the same health at lower points, and now a missed attack can be useful (other models can shoot, attack, or disengage). I personally prefer the turret of doom, but I might give this a go and see if the added resourcefulness makes up for all of the lost benefits.

Tried uninstalling and reinstalling..., seems to work now.  

13 hours ago, TheUnseemlyOne said:

Cost aside, he’s currently very unfocused in any sort of role on the table

I like the board / model manipulation he brings to the table. Just not for 11 points. 

I have an iPhone 12 Pro Max. iOS 15.2.1. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling.  Thoughts?

this has been going for about 2 weeks. iPad works fine.  

3 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

Just make sure you're at least a decent modeler, or have access to someone who can do it for you.

Cause Nightmare Boxes aren't easy to assemble, and McCabe's "Wild Ones" have a reputation for being one of the worst.

I suck at (and hate!) assembly, and I managed with it. There was just one model in the bunch where I held the pieces in my hand, looked at the diagram, looked at the pieces again, and just couldn't figure out htf they were supposed to go together. But once I got it, it worked. And they look awesome.

Now whoever created that Mei Feng Nightmare Box needs to be tortured slowly with nippy cutters...

3 hours ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

10 thunders are already extremely strong into ressers, but this just takes the cake. Fuhatsu is a NPE and currently the only thing I would actively nerf in thunders

My resser opponent rarely has issue with Fuhatsu. His absurdly low Willpower makes him an easy target for a lot of manipulation. My opponent often runs Molly, Kurai, and McMourning, and Fuhatsu might be able to take down a single model before he gets tied up and made worthless (put him into range of Boring Conversation, for example). Also note Fuhatsu is a lot of points, and if he's just guns'a'blazing, that's a lot of points not actively scoring points. And as a Resser, Fuhatsu is almost always at a negative flip for damage.

All in, I don't find Fuhatsu OP given how easy he is to neuter, and given how other faction have much stronger guns. Ever play into Von Schill? 

On 11/11/2021 at 5:06 PM, Regelridderen said:

ADVICE #10 - DON’T LOOK FOR WIN-STRATEGIES ON THE INTERNET

I debated pointing out the irony of this line item in a thread titled "Guide to Winning your games." 🙃

Otherwise seems on point.