Maniacal_cackle

Yeah, I think rather than saying all of Wyrds balance cycle should be dedicated to players like me, some experimentation in formats makes sense.

For me personally, my last three or four tournaments have been dominated by either Nexkids or Damian.

And while I REALLY enjoyed my tinkering to beat Nexus (and Damian), it gets tedious to just pick other overpowered titles to play against them.

The most fun tournament games I've had recently were mostly with original titles and masters like Molly 2 (and Lucius 2, but he's secretly super strong).

It'd be really nice to have some formats where original titles can keep up with the top stuff of the format.

1 hour ago, Doldrums said:

How about McMourning? How badly do you want Canine Remains for Sebastian. Kentauro also look pretty good. I heard little gassers are pretty useless though (unless you're playing title mcmourning, I think?)

A single canine remains is one of my most common hires with title Mcmourning.

But overall flesh constructs, kentauroi, and sebastian are 'pretty good.' The cheaper stuff is mostly optional or for niche builds.

Little gasser do feel a little obsolete because enslaved spirits exist, but they can be useful for stacking some poison and carrying an upgrade if you're playing the title.

My starter list was:

New Dr. McMourning Crew (Resurrectionist)

Size: 50 - Pool: 7

Leader:

  Dr McMourning

Totem(s):

  Zombie Chihuahua

Hires:

  Sebastian

  Rogue Necromancy

  Kentauroi

  Flesh Construct

  Nurse

  Little Gasser

Good scoring and killing power. Bit sad to be missing the Whisper on McMourning.

Overall I imagine the errata cycle works fine for most of the player base, though.

There'll be many players who buy a new crew and only play it 10-30 times before it gets errata-ed, which can also feel quite fast.

There's variety in the player base, so there should be variety in the competitive space to match different needs.

I don't think anyone in the community minds X, Y, Z master being broken.

What they mind is playing 100-200 games where those masters are part of the meta without receiving some adjustments.

Some players play so much that waiting until 2024 to see Madness of Malifaux content errataed will be quite tedious (assuming current errata patterns hold).

So BalanceFaux offers a format that can be interspersed with conventional play.

If somehow the format is so fun and popular that it becomes the competitive default... well, then wyrd would have to ask themselves why the game ended up being more fun when their new content is banned.

But I doubt it'll get to that.

1 minute ago, Scoffer said:

Ban DMH 

Ban multi-master 

Ban titles 

---you are here--- 

Ban all new releases 

Ban m3e

 

 

 

 

Actually you missed a step, this proposal includes banning all new releases for the format 😂

To provide some additional context.

This isn't from any group in particular. I brewed the format after talking to a number of people with some shared frustrations. 

It's not about any masters in particular. It just feels like every year there's a new round of things that are super far over the curve, and it gets a bit tiresome just playing a busted meta (both as and against).

So I thought why not try out a format where we can mitigate that.

I don't think me developing a new format after consulting a few people is going to have the logical conclusion of altering the game dynamic entirely 🤣

If it did take off that much, though... I think that would probably send a serious message to Wyrd that they should adapt the flow of their business model. They're pretty savvy. I'm sure they would.

23 minutes ago, Adran said:

Surely there is a flaw to the concept, in that it appears to assume that things are known to be flawed after a fixed period of time, when in reality it is more likely after a number of plays.  By people not playing new models in a competitivesetting, they are going to take longer before any problems with them show up, so longer before wyrd would need to look at them as something that needs errata. 

I have difficulty imagining this format will take off so much that it'd be the default format around the world.

If somehow this format was so successful it did just remove important data for Wyrd, then hopefully they would take notice and adjust their cycles to address those issues.

But realistically the competitive community can identify broken stuff much, much faster than the errata cycle. If even most of the events were the balance faux format, I think we could identify a lot of broken stuff with the few regular tournaments.

I think we will have a very clear idea of Damians power level by the end of the year. But he won't be eligible for errata until 2024 at current cycles.

5 minutes ago, Azahul said:

(to be honest I'd be inclined to ban all Malifaux Burns content period for said consistency's sake, but I'm not dying on that hill).

Yeah, this part is a bit funky for me as well. There's a ton of arguments both ways for that particular detail xD

EDIT: to elaborate, while there's some outliers (yannic), a lot of the enforcers and minions cleaned up the original titles in important ways. Kaltgeists, Guild Mages, Sly, Deacon, White Rabbit, etc all changed their keyword in interesting ways. Removing that content feels like you're just culling too much for not quite enough gain at that point. Literally other than Yannic I can't think of anything that would be ban-worthy, though maybe I'm forgetting something. I do hate 33

Part of what spawned this format was repeated calls for some sort of bans or errata from the committee, but no one can provide a good list or even criteria.

If anyone can provide a ban list that three people can agree on, I'll at least put it in front of the committee.

2 minutes ago, SEV said:

Delayed Faux?

I would much prefer a banned list handle by a committee and revised every X months.

80% of the stuff form MB is fine for tournament played. Just banned the stuff that isn't and we will have a balance format.

 

A lot of people have called for banning specific masters, but the issue is the calls for that are so subjective. This proposal is much 'cleaner'.

Though if anyone can propose a ban list with broad agreement beyond it, I'd be super interested to hear it!

For instance, I personally am not sure I'd vote to ban Damian... I think it's pretty clear that he's above the curve, but also am not sure I'd want to ban something without at least a bit more data on people teching to beat him. Though I also think it's going to be miserable facing him until 2024, particularly when some of the Malifaux Burns stuff is nerfed so he gets a power boost.

Most Yan Lo players don't think Yan Lo is overpowered (and same goes for many Nexus players). Guild players are quite resistant to the idea of banning Guild masters. Etc.

But if you can develop a list with pretty broad agreement, I'd be interested!

49 minutes ago, bakaryu135 said:

I have recently picked up everything Tormented and am planning to dip my toes into his keyword very soon.

I have been playing about with lists and looking at what OOK synergies there might be has led me to look at Madame Sybelle - she is a hefty investment at 10 stones but Undivided Attention combined with Disturbing Whispers and Terrifying 12 (and in general a lot of Terrifying throughout most of the crew) can lead to an awful lot of failed attacks.  She can help slingshot models forwards (or pull enemies in) and a small heal if she lands the trigger on Undivided Attention never hurts for Jack if the enemy does focus on him.

Currently looking at something like:

Jack + Whisper
Lady Ligeia
Montressor
Madame Sybelle
Hanged
Hanged
Guilty
Guilty
3 stones in the pool

The idea of Sybelle seems super cool, definitely worth testing.

Two issues:

• 3 stones is not a lot, since you have 5 models that rely pretty heavily on soulstones.
• I almost always put Grave Spirit's Touch on Hanged as it makes them way more survivable.

So maybe give your list a go, and then if it doesn't work out try dropping a Guilty for two upgrades and a stone? Or maybe tinker further.

As another mention for versatile models that work well, I love Enslaved Spirits with the crew!

1. Keywords affect hiring costs and often models will have abilities that affect certain keywords. So there tends to be some synergies.

2. You've missed masters. Masters and henchmen can use stones. Minions can be taken in multiples up to a limit. Some abilities and schemes care about particular ranks (such as the catch and release scheme).

3. Yes.

4. The game ends at the end of turn 5. However, since the scoring conditions can be quite demanding, sometimes you will see you have no path to affecting the outcome of the game and call it early.

5. Nope! You can lose every model on the table and win on points, although that is rare.

Well, my friend tried out the soulstine miner tech and I'm back to trying to figure out to beat him 🤣

Just announce it when you score it (or qualify for scoring it) so measuring can be done.

If you announce it every game you qualify there's no questions around it.

But yes, it is a bit awkward 😂 It has the upside of not having funny interactions with abilities, though. Vendetta for instance instantly heals Bill Algren which is a bit awkward.

So I think this way makes a bit more sense for those mechancis.

Parker is very strong, but challenging to play.  But some of the world series players do very well with him.

Tara is also very strong, challenging to play, and is so different from everything else that she is a bit of a mind blower.

Regardless of what you choose, you don't make a competitive list because you change your list from game to game.

For new players to a crew or faction, I suggest focusing on purchases. If you buy Tara's whole keyword, you're mostly set. Some of the versatiles can come in handy.

For Bandit, beyond the keyword you want malifaux rats for Benny to summon and Hodgepodge Emissary. The Emissary has been in every Parker crew I've seen xD

Not an expert though.

1 minute ago, SEV said:

You can also buy M1 effigy from wyrd. They're around 10 usd each.

I think there's only 5 of them on the shop, but yes you can get it down using that!

5 hours ago, hollow1351 said:

Perhaps it would be worth to clarify this in future Errata. Duplicate that Climbable and Walk are strictly related to each other in Climbable wording too. Since now Climbable refers to Move (not Walk), it seems unobvious.

Note that the rules never actually say only walk actions allow you to move up climbable terrain, so that's worth disputing.

However, the FAQs make it clear you can't push up them.

So each meta has to decide for themselves how to play that one.

When I was looking at Zoraida, I found some 3d printable puppet sets and intended to just mark each one with a base color matching their faction.

Good budget option if you don't want to spend up to $320 on the effigies xD

My favourite combo is the carrion effigy (summon, fate seal, put up aura to prevent soulstone use, accomplice into beatdown).

Re: red caps, vasilisa and widow weaver can summon them giving a very potent anti-scheming tool.

11 hours ago, thunderwolf said:

Really like look of new model but How do you play the title ?

move him up keep him back ? Any suggested lists ?

I was wondering best strategy schemes for him ?

just seems a bit harder to use on paper when I’m reading him

I am no expert, but I play to maximise "Why Hello Love". I put up his aura for damage from distracted, and then use models to do damage while throwing models into Seamus.

So I use yin/dead rider/sybelle/nurse/restless spirit as one of my builds.

I use copycat to significantly increase seamus positioning abilities.

Some people like to combo corpse curator with white rabbit company, so that white rabbit turns seamus into a scheme marker and corpse curator can drag him around.

3 hours ago, OracleToronto said:

Not to step on @Maniacal_cackle’s toes with all the amazing Molly guides I have about 20 games of Molly2 under my belt now (very much forced) and will soon be writing up a guide for those wishing to bring her to the table (spoiler alert this GG is probably as good as she is going to get and there are some fun and interesting ways to play her) 

The more perspectives the better!

I think daydreams are very good with a dreamer crew, but if you're taking pandora and candy half you don't have many nightmare models.

Tried Molly 2 against Tara 2 in a tournament today.

Archie, manos, Rider, 2 crooligans, 2 spirits was an incredible amount of movement.

The 2 crooligan builds are really interesting for from the shadows. They can claim a flank on Covert Operation and then teleport to the main fight to assist.

So managed to win!