Maladroit

26 minutes ago, belorey said:

Ok i was thinking i would see a table full of shadows but i need to check which Last Blossom models can generate extra actions for shadows.

Misaki 2 with obeys etc.

Wokou Rider: Coordinated attack

Torakage: Onslaught on his shooting

Thunder Archer: Inner peace trigger

Crimen Boss: Pressure action and Gang Warfare trigger.

And this is all, i think most if this extra actions are very situational. Am i wrong? There are other ways that i don't see?

Masked agent upgrade using the mask trigger.

Edit: since it is fast too, Shang (and others) Assassin ability.

I was going to post this in the Jacob Lynch thread in reply to Eclipse's post, the discussion seemed to be around whether these new title represent an alternative form that will eventually be returned to the prime form or these will be the future forms for these masters and the prime forms will eventually be removed from the game/story:

Quote

After this change reverting back to how things were would be invalidate the whole story process. I really was hoping that Lynch would take control of the dark power, forsake his totem and become more powerful on his own - a true Master, not a patsy. Instead we got the reverse, and that is somewhat difficult to digest. Things seem to always go in favor of the Tyrants (and the Hungering Darkness wanted to become one). IMO there is only one direction now, struggle for ultimate control and devour the other; either Lynch reverses his fortune, or HD takes over completely. Ah, of course, story-wise it might take quite a while for us to get there...

It felt like I'd be derailing the thread so thought I'd post here instead (and as a result this post will seem a little bit weird to start). I'll also preface this by saying that I have got my copy of the book yet so I'm talking from a position of partial ignorance - and I'm saying a lot of stuff that is obvious, but I'm thinking out loud to get some alternate thoughts. 

In today's stuff out of Gencon one of the comments was "They will be momentous moments in Malifaux's timeline or alt timelines." Which could mean that we might see a future reversion to the "prime" timeline before the burning man returned (a la Warhammer "Storm of Chaos"), or could be Wyrd just throwing this out there to muddy the waters. So perhaps we'll see a reversion as an alternate timeline - or this as the alternate timeline. Because Malifaux is magic. However I can still see a situation where Masters revert to their "prime" form without a story retcon.

I've been thinking about this in the context of what Wyrd have done in the past and these alternate titles. In the past we've seen Wyrd progress characters permanently - for example Dashel and Lucius - and this has also resulted in Characters exiting the core playing system (as DMH models). In this book, some Masters seem to be just alternate playable forms of themselves - Nekima and Mei Feng for example, or are what they do in their spare time like Lucius. If these alternate titles were to disappear I don't think that is a departure from the story. In other cases we have characters that are genuinely changed like Lynch or Nellie. In that sense, some of these alternate masters should theoretically become their future forms, like Von Schill who has been progressively losing body parts. Having said that, some of the changes have been precipitated by the return of the Burning Man to Malifaux, and theoretically (I guess) if he were to return Earthside in the story, these masters could shake off his influence and return to "normal", we saw something like this with the Avatar models which are not playable in M3E (as Avatars anyway). However this would mean that their alternate forms would become redundant in terms of the story (or only playable as a particular time - kind of like we have to pretend with DMH masters now). And the fact that some of these models are very specifically affected physically like Nellie would mean that these new models that reflect the progress in the story would be moving to the shelf which I'm not sure the players would be happy with either. Especially if you've invested heavily.

On the other hand we might see the story progress from here, perhaps with a new Burning Man faction, or we might see some masters recover and some end up in DMH (which is the direction Lynch seems to be heading), but this leaves some original Master forms sitting on the shelf as well as the story moves on and the "prime" versions become detached from the "current" reality. Does this matter? I guess to me (and why this is rolling around in my head) I would hate to see a Master I loved go DMH, but it happens. I'd also hate to invest in a lot of these alternate masters only to lose them in M4E. I'd also hate to lose my existing versions - especially the ones where I love the existing model (Hi Lucius - and don't tell me that you'd be OK with never seeing Von Schill's manly chest again, you wont). I'd also hate to miss out on one of these "new" masters if they stop being sold as Wyrd reduces their SKU again. But what is the alternative - the story stagnates and doesn't move forward? Or we have alternate timelines simultaneously running - in which case does the story really matter at all?

Apologies if the uncertainty comes across as negativity, that isn't my intent (or feeling). 

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

You can just throw a die, a token, or anything else to distinguish it if you have trouble remembering (which I typically do, so I tend to do that sort of thing).

If playing on Vassal, you can change base colours.

This is what Imagined too, there is no need to replace the marker, just identify it in some way. All these are good, most of mine I can just mark with a whiteboard marker too - in Lucius's case you could just write the turn number on it in case you (and by you, I mean me) forget to rub it out at the end of the turn. Or even have some numbered scheme markers made if you were so inclined - you'd could only number one side so that you'd be able to use them in other crews too as regular markers. 

29 minutes ago, dancater said:

So throwing out this as a warning and advice as Malifaux Burns hits the wild. For most it is plain and obvious, but if the years have taught me anything it is to be most wary of what seems obvious to you, as that is the thing you don't account for and it burns you.

Several of the new titles have an ability to create a type of marker which is what I'll refer to as a "common" marker, one which they, their crew and other crews can create in multiplicity. But, the marker they create has unique special additional rules, while in all other ways is the same as the "common" marker.

Everyone must make sure that these unique variant markers are clearly differentiated on the table, so all players know what are the "common" markers and what is the "special" variant.

The masters or models which do this include (please others feel free to add more):

• Rasputina the Abominable throws out (potentially multiple) Creeping-Ice Pillars which also prevent movement effects and Bury to models in base contact with them. This is a trigger on her Northern Winds attack, in all other ways these markers are normal Ice Pillars. This ability is especially complicated as it is not time limited and you can multiple Ice and Creeping-Ice Pillars at the same time.
• Lucius, Dishonourable at the beginning of his turn uses Planning Ahead to throw out a single Scheme Marker which, for the remainder of the round (so this is strictly time limited), allows Elite and Mimic models within 2 of the marker to add one suit of their choice to declared Attack actions.

I'm certain there are others, so if we get a list that will be really useful. The critical thing is that these are not a new special type of marker but a special rule variant. As long as this is known to both players and clearly differentiated on the table (so both players know what is the "common" and what instead is the "special") then we have no problems. So everyone playing titles which do this need a second distinct marker, and everyone playing against them needs to clarify what is going to be used.

Let's avoid unnecessary table conflicts. And for this reason as a house rule I would play that if the dropped marker is not clearly differentiated then it has none of the special rules.  

I think this is a good point.

For Raspy however, it is a little more complicated than that, it isn't any model in base contact with the marker, it is only the model the pillar was created in base contact with.

"While in base contact with the Created Marker, the target cannot be moved or buried." So there is only a distinction for one model - which I guess is worse, but in practical terms probably means that the targeted model will either stay attached to the marker or destroy it, effectively keeping the marker distinct.  

Dear Wyrd, how are you? Look, I know that you are really busy at Gencon, but if you could update your website when you get a chance. You see, I've been quite excited with all of the artwork you've been showing off, but none of it has made it here yet. Just when you get a spare moment I'd really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Regards,

Mal.

1 hour ago, Mindbadger said:

Fair enough, I just liked how the Explorer's Guild starter box was set up, with models you could slot in anywhere and still get use. I'm not sure which Neverborn master would replace most of their crew with Grim models, as cool as they are. Maybe Zoraida, and lean into the puppet theme?

Lots of WP resisted attacks, and summonable Puppets so maybe Dreamer? I don't play dreamer - I don't think it's better but might be usable.

24 minutes ago, Mindbadger said:

Love the artwork on them!

One thing I'm a bit worried about is that you seem to be incentivized to take them as a package, Dark Tale boosts them quite a bit, especially the damage on the Red Caps, they seem to get much stronger moving as a small group. But that's a 25 point package, might be tough to fit in to many crews.

As standalone pieces, Hildegard brings a bit of movement shenanigans, Red Caps remove enemy schemes and can sometimes put out some hurt.  Klaus seems a bit more interesting, some good discard, some conditions to hand out and some situationally powerful stuff.

If I'm reading it right, he is one of the only models that doesn't care about getting parasite tokens . . . infiltrator turns off Parasitic grasp. 

8 minutes ago, Peturd said:

You are summoning ice creatures. You summon living or beast, but they lost those traits from the card. Then get armor and the demise from gamin/golems/kaldgist. Her lore blurb explains it too. She is forming new people from the ice and giving them life. Tempted to repaint a silent one and some acolytes in icy form!!

Ah cool, I haven't seen the entire page yet but thanks for clarifying. The only site I've seen posting pics only has all of the cards listed. Still seems a little strange that she cannot make a creature like a gamin then, but I'm not too bothered - from what you've said these are not exactly "living" in the normal sense (since they don't count as living in the game)?

22 minutes ago, Jordon said:

So my big concern here is by giving her options to summon living December models, they won't receive any changes that they desperately need. Acolytes, Hoarcats and Ice Dancers are in a really bad state right now. Using summoning as a way to make them more palatable just doesn't sit right. I hope its not the case and these models get the buff they deserve soon. 

My second gripe is that I feel like the Kaltgeist just feels like a superior ice gamin. For just one more stone you get so much more utility. The fact that they are mobile ice pillars alone basically invalidates the gamin. If you could summon gamin then I'd be more forgiving, but you cannot. Not sure if anyone else is feeling this or not? 

As for Raspy herself. The artwork doesn't really do much for me as I feel like she's lost lot of the Wyrd-ness or arcane feeling. She still has Ice Mirror, which I wasn't expecting. Too bad it still requires discards to actually use. Again I hope we see that change in an upcoming errata as well. 

Beyond that, I'm pretty happy with her new role and I like that it emphasizes different models. SnowStorm looks like an auto include which is pretty refreshing. 

9 minutes ago, Fluffaluffacus said:

I 100% agree. I am hoping they do get better and this isn't just a "well you can summon them now" cover up.
 

I definitely feel that. To be fair, Gamin were never really worthy of hiring anyways so its not a huge loss. But also, I'd like to be able to hire models in my keyword for some reason. I love the Kaltgeist, but having a reason to play my snowmen would be nice.

 

I will say. If you look at the upgrade, it looks like she is doing a giant ice wall spiral wave thing? and she is on a 40mm so maybe there will be more to the sculpt that we can see in the card art.

Not being able to summon the models that Raspy v2 comes with feels a little strange . . . I'm not sure it's a problem that needs solving in terms of Gameplay yet. And thematically the summoning seems a little strange as well - you'd think if you were summoning using an ice pillar you would be summoning a ice creature of some sort , but again that isn't a rules or gameplay issue.

I agree with Jordan that the art isn't doing it for me - but like you said, the proof is in the model. Hopefully we'll see a nicely painted one revealed soon.

5 hours ago, Euryale said:

Abominable Rasputina has been revealed from the new book, and she certainly looks interesting. Seemingly more of a summoning model with a bit more damage behind her.

. . . . 

In addition:

She's lost:

A 30 mm base

She gained:

- A 40 mm base

Can't see from the artwork why, is there a bigger picture (so not from the card) floating around - really why I am asking is I'd like to see a pic if there is one!

Looks like the NB starter box models are in there - I don't think that is confirmed, but they fit the pattern (4 versatile models with a  new keyword in common.)

2 minutes ago, Avatar of Butter said:

So, the whole book has been spoiled, and, unless I have missed something serious, Sonnia is going to be... the only master in the game that doesn't get something new for her keyword? That seems like a bit of a kick in the pants, as I certainly haven't been super jazzed about the M3E Witch Hunters. Sonnia herself does all kinds of cool stuff, but so much of the keyword (Spellcasters, Quellers, Stalkers, arguably Hopkins) seems to be hard to justify hiring...

I guess she got the spelleaters relatively recently to expand her keyword, but yes it would have been nice to get an enforcer/henchman in keyword. At the moment she has plenty of minions but only Hopkins as an enforcer/henchman choice. 

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I agree he seems more expendable, but I think you'll always just keep him in protected range still so that you have the option to keep him alive.

With a guild mage, that translates to healing as well.

True, it's not as if I want him to die. But protecting the Dispatcher was one of the elements I didn't like about old Dashel so it feels a bit freeing . . . . at this point my brain is mainly thinking of the possibilities of Dashel v2 as a second master so that's also colouring my viewpoint currently.

8 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

His bonus action removes a marker to do stuff, and executioners too.

I think dispatcher is critical for those first few turns.

I might be wrong, but I think I'd be deploying Dashel as far forward as possible and it's only a 2" range on the bonus, I'd only expect it to be useful for T1 - I guess what I meant is that I wont be tucking the dispatcher safely away anymore, he'll just be deployed to get the T1 bonus then I don't think I care if he get's sniped out. It's not as if I wont be taking him, I just don't think he needs protecting anymore.

Might just have got the NB started box models revealed in Malifaux burns:

Klaus Norwood (Henchman) - Versatile, Grim, Mimic

Hildegaard (Enforcer) - Versatile, Grim

Red Cap (Minion(2)) -  Wersatile, Grim, Puppet.

4 New versatile models not connected to an existing Keyword fits the pattern for a starter. As a Lucius player it is nice to see Klaus and new puppets are also a nice addition.

Not sure it is cool to post images of the cards, but I guess they'll be officially revealed in time.

Not sure if posting the photos of new Dashel from the book is OK, but I guess they'll find there way in here eventually. 

First impression is that he'll have LLC. Second impression is that he's pretty brutal. Third is that he doesn't need the dispatcher in this version. Fourth is that he looks tasty as a second master, I'm looking forward to trying that.

Edit to add: Paired with Hamelin in case you have not seen. Disease containment unit (Enforcer) is the new shared model.

DCU can summon beast minions with Mindless - so basically dogs and has a tasty flamethrower.

57 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

1. Climb up and Climb down, which would cost 4" of movement
2. Climb up and fall down, which would cost 2" of movement but you would suffer 1 damage
3. Climb up and climb 1" down, before falling an inch, which would cost 3" of movement but you would take no damage (because 1/2 = 0.5, which is rounded down to 0)

You also need to move forward (assuming that you are crossing the wall) by the width of the wall + the width of your model's base. So starting with the "front" of the base in contact with the wall and ending with the "back" of the base in contact with the opposite side of the wall. You don't get the forward displacement for free. So more likely, climb 2", forward 2(ish depending on wall width and base size)" then add movement to climb down or fall down.

25 minutes ago, Sweet Tooth said:

This won’t hold up since Guild only has two unrevealed pairs left and no pairs yet with Arcanist, Neverborn, and Thunders. 

Well there goes that theory.

Edit to add: I'd forgotten about Daw/Nellie tbh.

2 hours ago, dancater said:

 . . . . 

 

1. Colette (A) and Pandora (N) with Dorian (N)
2. Mei (A/TT) and Mah (B) with the Rock Hopper (B)
3. Marcus (A/N) and Lord Cooper (E) with the Empryean Eagle (E)
4. Hoffman (A/G) and Von Schill (O) with the Metallurgist (O)
5. Anya (E) and Ironsides (A) with the Drudge (A)
6. Reva (R-Burning) and Kaeris (A-Burning) with Deacon Hillcrest (A)

So of the 54 distinct masters we have information on 37 (33 spoiled and 4 known). One master stands out, Von Schtook, without a pairing or keyword, who is the mad professor teamed with (does he have to be? I think yes, maybe Sandeep).  . . . 

   

Assuming that all factions have a pair with another faction (which I think has been said) then Sandeep cannot pair with von Schtook. We have 6 arcanist masters known, and two to go. We do not yet have an arc-guild combo or an arc-tt combo. So Sandeep is possibly paired with Shenlong out of the ones that are available.

Von Schtook is harder to pin down - all Resser pairs have been revealed so it will be the duplicate which could be anything.

Card draw was one of the big changes to the dispatcher. Also something Raspy lacks in keyword. I suspect putting it on Frozen Conduit wouldn't be a great option. But maybe it would.  

59 minutes ago, Martkenn said:

Hi all, new to the game and had a question regarding triggers. So I get you need to meet the requirements however my question is, if you declare a trigger for example onslaught because you have the suit you need in the final duel total but you do not win the duel can you still complete the trigger action?

It depends on the trigger. In this example, the onslaught trigger has no timing indicated, which means it has the default trigger timing:

"If a Trigger does not list a timing, it is treated as an After succeeding Trigger."

After succeeding triggers obviously require you to win the duel. So in the case of onslaught, if you do not win the duel then no trigger.

Other triggers, however do not require the duel to be successful, for example if the timing is immediately:

"Immediately: These Triggers resolve in the Declare Triggers step. They often modify the duel itself in some way."

In this case the trigger occurs before the final duel total is determined, so the trigger actually happens first.

 Page 12 of the digital rulebook explains the different trigger timings pretty well. For example another one is after resolving.

"After resolving: These Triggers happen after the Action is complete, regardless of success or failure, but only if the model that declared the Trigger is still in play."

If you have any specific examples that page 12 doesn't help with post again and someone will sort you out.

54 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Noone's put it up yet (in the Guild thread, @HomelessOne put it in Outcasts), but the Nellie&Friends box has been revealed.

 . . . . .

That's Nellie, Jack Daw, and (assuming) enforcer Auguste Hart.

We don't talk about Nellie that "master". We've been trying to pretend that she isn't one of us. But, no, thanks. Thanks a bunch.

9 minutes ago, fire5tone said:

It's not a physical object but RAW it simply can't be seen through, unless you consider buildings no not be see through *just because* they're also impassible, but there's no reference for that so I consider it the very same "blocking" as it is on a building

I'm not even sure if we are disagreeing. Yes blocking means you cannot draw LOS through or into the terrain,  buildings generally have the blocking trait, but it isn't the blocking that prevents you pushing through the wall of the building, it's the impassable/climbable trait.

16 minutes ago, fire5tone said:

Then it would be dense, or concealing, blocking can't be seen through (unless you have the ht for it?) And it does generate the shadow, so it appears that you cant see the parts of a model inside the terrain

That might be a better for smoke, but again, as far as I can see there is nothing in the rules that prevents blocking terrain from being something without substance. People can agree on any terrain traits they want (that makes sense to them), but since blocking only affects LOS and not movement, I don't see how it can be argued that is must be a physical object. It can be, it often is, but I don't see why it must be.

Edit to add: and since this is a rules issues thread, I guess I'm arguing that there isn't one - it's just a bit odd.

13 minutes ago, touchdown said:

You declare the trigger before you pick the suit, so while it's possible to strengthen your opponent's deck (it's also possible to draw 7 weaks in a row for that matter), it would be a deliberate choice.

Ah, yep misread that slightly - so reveal then pick the suit to discard.

Edit: so that's better than I thought. Does the owner of the RJ have to declare its suit before Youko picks?