cbtb11235813

38 minutes ago, Faitfull said:

So would you recommend kaeris plus ironside or kaeris plus Carlos and gunsmiths as My first buy 

I agree with @WWHSD. I added it up the other day, I'm missing about a dozen models from the whole Arcanist faction, and have done just fine without Gunsmiths. Ironsides' box is a far better purchase 

Inspired by the recent thread about who has the highest consistent damage output, lets go the total opposite direction. Give me your most ridiculous/broken/to-complicated-to-ever-actually-work combos for tanking the most damage. 

I think it is Joss in a Sandeep crew. Sandeep makes Joss incorporeal, and Joss Stands next to an Enforcer with Well Rehearsed and Snowstorm for bullet proof. That means for an enemy to do more than 1 damage to Joss in a single hit they would have to do 

- 9+ damage on Sh
- 7+ damage on Ml
- 3+ damage on Ca

So lets call it an average of 6.3+ damage in a single hit to do 2 damage. Then you have to get through HTK and Well Rehearsed. This isn't counting Imbued Protection which only works on the first hit, or things like Enchanted Weapons or Leveticus just ignoring everything. 

Can you find something even dumber?

7 hours ago, WWHSD said:

Hell, even if you use him awesome a lot of times Howard doesn't make it to see turn three but then again neither do a few of your opponent's models.

Very good point. Howard is pretty amazing at removing models from the table, the trick is removing enough to make him worth his cost

4 hours ago, Faitfull said:

hmmm... thinking of doing the following

Kaeris crew box.

That will get me:

Kaeris

The firestarter

3 firegemins

the eternal flame

then perhaps add the following:

Carlos (tank that are happy for fire)

Gunsmith box

perhaps some union minors?

 

or go

Kaeris + a addition crew box. I know many say that Ramos crew box is good addition. However cannot stop considering Toni Ironside or Mai

 

Am I doing it wrong?

 

Edit: found this about the Fire Golem

https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2018/3/26/monday-preview-fire-golem

Sounds really nice to Kaeris...! any idea about when it will hit the shelves and what kind of realworld money it is going to cost?

That box is supposed to come out next month and will likely cost $60, you will only be able to buy the whole box (Arcanist: Fitzsimmons, 2 Sabateurs, and the Fire Golem, as well as the 4 Gremlin models), meaning you'll probably want to find a Gremlin player to split it with. But every Arcanist model in that box sounds purpose built to make Kaeris good. We have no actual rules for them as of yet though

Also, between Mei and Ironsides, go with Ironsides, no question

Pro's and con's for the Ironsides vs Ramos box

Ramos
+ Joss, an incredible tank and pretty heavy hitter, and he is an M&SU henchman so he can carry important upgrades (like powered by flame)
+ Howard, probably one of the most singularly terrifying Arcanist beaters. He is sort of a glass cannon, meaning if you use him poorly he likely won't see turn 3
+ Spiders, spiders, and more spiders. As singles, they are cheap and tough minions that can run away and score you points. As a swarm, they are an incredibly under-appreciated model with very consistent damage, and one of the best anti-schemers in the faction
- Nothing in his box specifically synergizes with burning, unless you use the powered by flame upgrade. But many people would say you don't need that much burning in a Kaeris crew

Ironsides
+ The Captain, another M&SU henchman. Not nearly as tanky as Joss, but has a similar damage track (works better against some crews, worse against others), and can provide mobility by pushing your crew around, or throw out cover for things to hide behind. He can do a small amount of burning as triggers on most of his abilities
+ Oxfordian Mages, probably the most commonly complained about model by anyone not playing them. For their point cost, they are excellent. 
- With the Kaeris + Ironsides combo, you have very few models willing to get up in the middle of your enemy's crew. The Captain seems like the only melee model, and he is not terribly hard to kill. Ramos' box gives you two great melee beaters, that can play well with literally any other Arcanist master. 

Aside from that, Ramos and Ironsides are both very fun masters to play, you can't really go wrong with either one

I have not played McM, only against him, but here is what I've gathered from playing people very good with him. Sebastian is amazing (I hate him), guard him more carefully than you do McM, because your opponent should probably be gunning for him first. Sebastian and the Chihuahua running together can do a fair amount of non-attack damage just by standing in the right spot. Sebastian's crazy 8 really forces your opponent to make some hard choices. "Do I activate *insert important model* now and eat 3 unreduced damage, or try to kill/move Sebastian first" or the great "I have one model left to activate, it has 2 wounds left, is poisoned, and standing right next to Sebastian. What do?" Also, merc in Arcanist performers. They have a better expunge than anything McM can do as a built in trigger on their lure.

I'm currently playing Ironsides for a shifting loyalties campaign. My list looks like

Ironsides
   -Veteran Fighter
   -Challenge the Crowd
The Captain
   -Patrons Blessing
Johan
   -Well Rehearsed
Medical Automaton 
------------------- (Now for model you don't have)
Union Steamfitter
Envy
Arcane Effigy
Wind Gamin

Johan next to Ironsides benefitting from HPM and Solidarity is brutal, and very effective at killing things. 

For the things you don't have, dropping Envy and Steamfitter very nearly accounts for the cost of 3 mages (I strongly recommend buying Steamfitters in the near future, they are amazing). The wind gamin is there do 1 damage to up to 4 friendly models turn one so they get HPM. You could also do this with the electrical creation, but the gamin also runs schemes later in the game. You could instead drop both the effigy and the gamin for most of Amina's cost. 

Really if your goal is killing, Ironsides, The Captain, and Johan tend to pummel everything in swinging distance. The biggest problem you might have is an utter lack of ranged threat (which is why I bring Envy). With my list I have tabled a solid majority of opponents (Ironsides getting 10 Adrenaline and killing 5 models in a single activation is truly a thing to behold) 

I think that is part of the tradeoff. At least with Envy and Large Arachnid, they have very easy ways of getting for attack and damage. So a high defense opponent can possibly avoid the attack (it would be unbalanced otherwise), but its going to hurt if the attack gets through. If you want the most damage + highest likelyhood to hit, I'd say its Howard with Ml7 min 4 (the decapitate trigger is nice too)

13 minutes ago, ttsgosadow said:

Thanks for the kind words, but I must admit this list is heavily inspired by Duncan Blitz. He ran Sonnia very succesfully in Nova, if I recall, some time ago and this list has been pieced together based upon different facebook threads with lots of discussion about the ideal list.

I have played against Duncan playing Sonnia. It was a team tournament so his list was slightly different, but not much at all. His brother Dean was playing Hoffman and they power looped in a metal gamin to bring Sonnia up to an insane Ca 10 for her attack. Hoffman also made her a construct for giving fast/machine puppet shenanigans. Beyond that, they brought a Monster Hunter and a Queller for supression markers. 

Granted teaming up with Hoffman made her considerably stronger, but they did manage to completely table my 70ss Raspy/Sandeep team by early turn 2. Rasputina never even got an activation 😶

44 minutes ago, retnab said:

Ahh, I misunderstood.  Reliable, expected damage I'd then say Envy for the ability to 0 for Focus and the crazy good ranged 2/5/6 damage track.

I second this. When I take envy he pretty consistently can get that 5/6 damage. And if you get the tome or have a scheme marker near the target that moderate of 5 becomes very scary when you get the blast off. 

Joss' 5/8/10 is great but its a (2) action

But I think merc'd in Johana with Ironsides is the best. She caps at 6 damage with her relic hammer, but if you positioned her right and hit a construct/tyrant, you have  to hit, and  to damage (single  if not a construct/tyrant). If you really want something dead, you can flurry. As long as you avoid black jokers, it is super easy to hit severe, and there are few things I've seen that can stand up to three of them from a relic hammer

11 minutes ago, Rathnard said:

These are some rather dashing fellows. Am I the only one who wants to run a crew of these guys, some Wastrels and Graves/Tannen for the classiest crew about town?

You would need a way to add in Ferdinand Vogel to truly be the fanciest

19 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Which means it's a (0) action that Yan Lo can take.

Right, but I'm not certain that means it is an action that Yu can take. Does one model being able to treat an action as a (0) mean that action is considered a (0) for all other models?

11 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I haven't seen any indication that Sandeep doesn't solve this problem just fine.  

You may be right, but I really try to avoid the "well just play Sandeep" trap

I don't play Thunders, so I'm no expert, but I would say no. The upgrade says Yan Lo may use that action as a (0), but the action itself is still a (1)

I own Marcus, but have not even finished building his box, let alone painted his crew or played them. I look forward to learning him shortly after this tournament. As of now I have Ramos, Rasputina, and Sandeep table ready, and am going to try to have Ironsides ready to go (fingers crossed)

I own 5 masters (and still need to paint 2), so it would likely be those 5 lol. Sandeep, Marcus, and Ironsides can do many things pretty well, I usually play Visions Sandeep instead of Commands, and use him in Interact heavy pools. I like Raspy for Symbols, likely Marcus or Ironsides for Public Executions, Sandeep for Ply, and Ramos for Ours

Also, Vox doesn't only have the marker trick. Shout Them Down can be very powerful if used right. Both of those abilities on a 1ss upgrade in a sea of Ramos' 2ss upgrades is great

35 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

You could bring a metric shit-ton of blast immune Slate Ridge Maulers.

It may not be any good but I doubt a Sonnia players wants to see a bunch of stuff that doesn't care about blasts sitting across the table from them..

33 minutes ago, 7thSquirrel said:

not only blast immune but impossible to wound, i.e. can't even cheat to get those blasts . They just have to rely on their Ca 9 to beat the bear by enough to naturally flip a blast against the built in negative to damage flips.

Oooooooooooo, I forgot about Bearskin Armor

21 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I might be tempted to hire Hans as well just because I hate those firewall things she always throws up.

Kaeris with Grab and Drop might be nice since it will give you a way to get your models over the walls or to bring a victim over to your side of the wall. 

Alas, I don't have Kaeris (or Hans for that matter). Both on the list, but I have a tournament coming up at the end of may, and a decent chance of running into a notoriously good Sonnia player. Trying to get Ironsides & co. painted before then, currently only have Ramos, Raspy, and Sandeep ready for the table

7 minutes ago, retnab said:

Ironsides with WR. Rush her in and beat up the enemy, stay immune to Burning to stop Sonnia's big trick, let the rest of the crew kill/scheme from a safe range.

This was kind of my thought. Her or Raspy to counterblast

As implied by the title, what would you bring against an opponent playing Sonnia, not knowing the S&S?

As part of the SL campaign, I played Ironsides w/ veteran fighter, Captain, Johana, Steamfitter, Effigy, and Wind Gamin. 

Symbols, Punish the Weak, Show Of Force, Undercover, Recover Evidence, and Take Prisoner. 

Played against Hoffman thematic list (Box set + Warden & Ryle)

Hoffman's crew had a very bad time against that many Relic Hammers

I'm no expert on Gremlin shenanigans, but if I remember correctly, the wording is "cheat from the top of your deck". A cheated RJ allows your opponent to cheat like normal. Just because you don't know the card you're cheating, it's still cheating (if it said you may reflip your card instead of cheating, that would be different) 

I played against that list at Adepticon (we were playing for 1st place at the story encounter tournament), I wouldn't exactly call it garbage

19 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

The Steamfitter can drop scrap markers by discarding cards but remember, Ramos can summon up to 3 Spiders from a single scrap marker and once they are killed, they also drop scrap markers since they are Constructs.  You only need one scrap marker to get Ramos's summoning engine going.  

It only takes one, but I enjoy have more options for them, because I don't always have a dead spider when I need one, and I hate wasting AP to kill them myself later in the game

After getting a couple games in with Ironsides, I had an idea for another "generic" M&SU member (a la the new models coming in Backdraft). M&SU Recruiter. Make him ~6ss and give him something like

(1) Welcome to the Movement (Ca 5 / TN: 12 / Rg: 4):
     Target friendly model gains the M&SU characteristic until the end of the turn

      For the Greater Good: Target gains the M&SU characteristic for the rest of the game instead

(1) Negotiated Wages: 
     This model may discard a card to add a  to its duels for the rest of the turn

(0) Stick it to the Man: (Ca 5 / Rst: Wp / Rg: 6)
     Target model gains the following condition until the end of the turn: "Enemy of the Union: Enemy M&SU models gain to all duels against this model"
 

Maybe a Ml 5 1/2/4 attack, and a  Df trigger, "In the Public Eye: Damage flips against this model suffer ", that may be too much though. Thoughts?