Tors

8 hours ago, solkan said:

For the record, consider the related scenario:

A model with two melee actions is subject to Bring It.  The model's movement brings it within range of one of its melee actions but not the other.  Can the model use the out of range melee action to satisfy Bring It?  When it does so, it will have no valid, in range target in the targeting step and the action will fail, resulting in a resolved melee action and the satisfaction of the action resolution rules.

Is there a requirement that the model choose the melee action that could have succeeded instead of the one that is out of range?  No, there isn't.

Just to clarify, in your scenario you use the normal rules Text for "bring it" and conclude that the target model can choose the out-of-range Melee action regardless?

13 hours ago, Corn said:

Does Gunfighter give a model a quantum engagement range such that it both is and is not engaging a model at the same time? Such as for Hidden Martyrs or One More Question?  

That is exactly what gunfighter does, yes. You have to decide each time and can choose either way. This isn't influenced from the question at hand.

Regarding the rest, there are other welding torchers besides Hoffman and other cases, when Melee Actions have to meet certain criteria before beeing eligible. I just didn't dug any deeper. 

But as neither of us have arguments based on concret rules text or precedents i agree to disagree.

5 hours ago, Corn said:

I would respectfully disagree here based on the words used in both abilities.

Must is going to be controlling because it conveys definitiveness and compulsion.  If a model must do something, then it is compelled to do the thing if it is so able.  When Bring It is used, the model is compelled to make a melee attack unless doing so is impossible.  

May on the other hand denotes a possibility.   If a model may do something than it has the option of doing the thing.  When Gunfighter is present on a model it gives that model the possibility of using their firearm to make a melee attack at range 1.  

So if Bring It is used on a model with Gunfighter, that model is is compelled to make a melee attack if it is so able, the only exception is if it is impossible for it to make a melee attack (such as being out of range or not having any way to get one on its card).   If a model has Gunfighter, then it is possible for it to make a melee attack because the ability allows the model to make a melee attack with their firearm... so it is compelled to use that option to do so because Bring It specifies that it must.  

You could however, make sure to use Bring It from a safe distance.  Bring It has a 12 inch range, so as long as the model end's its movement +2 outside of their melee range, it will be impossible for them to make the required melee attack and it will fail.  

 

I didn't wrote my thoughts on this beforehand, as to not sway the option in any direction. I thought about your point before, but this reasoning is only rooted in an "oxfordian" Interpretation that 'must' trumps 'may', which isn't necessary true within the game mechanics and can have wider implications

(for example, if 'must' compells the model to take the melee action than it has to pay any associated cost and use any enableing ability, if the attack is otherwise impossible, whenever it has the chance. Like discarding a card, if challenged; Using an ice pillar as point of origin [Rasputina, Cold Snap], if otherwise out of range; Discarding Power tokens to futher reach if necessary with welding torch; and so on).

As 'bring it' doesn't change control of the model, i would tend to argue, it doesn't force the controler to chose in a specific way for any subsequent options (as obey would do). I thought there was a FAQ regarding forced choices, but i am unable to find it again.

In my Opinion this boils down to

A) "Must" overrules the controler-decides rulesset (p.26)

B) "Must" doesn't

I favor B  only to not open the can of worms A would bring.

Bring it says "[...] target must take a melee action [...]

gunfighter says "[...] may treat [...] ranged actions as having a range of meele 1"."

Can the target of bring it choose to not apply gunfighter, thous cirumventing the melee action (given there are no other possible melee actions on his card)?

15€+Shipping?

Only Resser Stuff Remains, 25+Shipping if you take all

On 10/2/2021 at 4:51 PM, Tors said:

 

Upgraded first post, looking for:

35€ monsterous/ they all Fall down each

15€ for Marcus core Box (missing initiates)

10€ for Ophelia / Schill / Set of Monster Hunters each

Make an offer for the shikome / Gunners and Resser Stuff

All excluding shipping, based on germany. Anything but resser stuff and gunners with M3e cards, bases and still in sprue

Best regards!

Tors

2 hours ago, Kyle said:

Want to figure out how this Witness crew plays before you pick them up? Head to the news post on the website for the gallery.

Can somebody share a link to this, as i am unable to find it.

Thx in advance!

Single faction, Single Masters means you can only play one faction during the Event and can hire one Master euch game. This Master can change between games.

I would like for gaining grounds to stay a tournament format document like it has been instead of beeing converted into some kind of core rule errata testground.

Please provide options for the tournament structure part and rotating s&s including details for scoring - like excluding or limiting scoring options for summons - but keep actual rule changes within errata and new editions.

Had the same problem and had to reinstall to fix it

Bremen/Cuxhaven hatte ne ganz vernünftige Spielerschaft, aber Corona hat der nicht bekommen. Es gibt noch ne halbes dutzend aus unserem Spielerkern, aber wir sind auch mangels Location nich nicht wieder zum Stammtisch zurückgekehrt 

That equals 3-4 HP/Turn (possible more, as less then 5 rounds could have been played and healing on turn one isn't most likely needed in the first place).

That means severe healing flip and/or trigger for additional healing on at least one action every every turn. Congrats to such awesome luck!

As for unkillable, i quess we have very distinct definitions towards surviability of 10 wound df5 model. Or you don't ecounter half decent ranged models as often, as i tend to :-k

Humpf i had hoped for a wacky game with some crazy rider/"horse" miniatures. But looking at this, it seems even conversions or existing kits (e.g. warwabbit) wont fit on the board.

I am disappointed. Pretty Cover art, but otherwise boring and generic asthetics with the board an meeple shown 

Custom Build

It's based on the alternate guild seargent and some Warhammer imperial com backpack

Already brought 4! Hotel is booked, flight will follow and hype is live!

Thats covered by basic measurment rules

44 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

Carry on, humans! I think that there's plenty to work with in Guild, if God Empress Nekima wasn't my first love I'd probably be playing Justice. I think the issue is that the stronger players moved to different factions, hunting after fractions of power, and so now skill levels combined with a slight disadvantage leads everyone to believe that Guild is unsalvageable. 

Oh you missunderstood, i get the urge to quit because of the people posting, not the Faction. I don't see many relevant problems with the trusty redcoats (in fact i would rate them above NVB for example) and the last tournament i attended (14 players i think) had guild on place 1&2 only seperated by one point of total VP diff).

It's just the especially intense (and unnessesary) pitty party that is the guild subforum that's tiring. But to be fair that's true to an extant in almost every faction sub here - i am pretty sure if we take every of the dozens of errata threads and note down every mentioned piece in need of adjustment, we get a complete list of malifaux models.

Yeah, that there aren't guild players near vegas... i can understand  everytime i read another "guild is bad"-thread here i also got the urge to quit

While i appreciate the effort, a word by word translation didn't work very well with two such different sets of grammer. I just skipped over the german version and while the 'technical' terms and descriprions are correct and consistent with the original rules (through i didn't checkt very in dept), the phrasing/expressions is on an D- Level at best.

Just an example:

Burning is translated with "brennen". "Brennen" is a verb, describing the state of beeing on fire,  this translation does the job, but "brennen" isn't the right conjugation in this context. "brennend" would be better suited. Just beneath this, poison is translated with "Gift" which is the correct noun for a toxic Material (usually associated with a liquid). While this translation isn't wrong either, in english poison could also be a verb describing the act of getting a toxic material into something, in German this would be "vergiften". In correlation with the conjugation, tension and intend within the usage of "burning" and "posion" in the original material the translation should be "brennend" and "vergiftet" instead of "brennen" and "Gift" (which is incoherent and strictly speaking wrong).

I hope my explanation is understandable, as my german is far better then my english and the grammatical chicanerys are tricky for Non-natives (and most natives, too). 

If you have a low mask, the Nephilim can charge your own, relenting model and trigger insidious influence to obey it afterwards with any 8+

A bit situational but a solid turn 1 plan

Just make the flip cheatable and call it a day. Fixed the NPE, as there is counter play available and reduce the defense/armor/df-trigger if you want to bring them more in line (Heck add 1ss to their cost even).

Makes the less durable, and more prone, to hitting themselves while mainting there roll in the crew

Each if those models is able to modifie the damage flip of prevent damage.

Masters aren't supposed to be the thoughest models 

Those defensive techs are ignored by every instance of indirect damage or area damage, too [which NVB as a whole Faction don't have on a significant scale (Black Blood and a few sleeping strikes)]. Add the Fact, that not one! NVB model has irreducible damage and ignoring targeting-bound defensive on one model doesn't seems like the worlds end.

One Raptor summoned through demise and a second summoned by the first one from the austringers corpse marker