looka

22 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

No, focused does not work for actions generated by an action or trigger. Extended parentage isn't a thing in Malifaux.

focus definitely works on an attack action trigger, the only question is does it work on defene triggers

57 minutes ago, Ogid said:

It depends on how the Focused state works... If it works in different actions generated from an action where the focus is used (for example, in a "Quick Reflexes" trigger), then it could be argued this also work in this case... I also feel this shouldn't work here, but it's not crystal clear.

 Action Triggers are tied to specific Actions and can only  be used with that Action. They are found below an Action’s effect and are subject to all game effects that affect the Action (such as Incorporeal or + flips to damage).  (p.12 rb)

that is, vent steam aura is also terrane? and if a pig with an active aura moves then does the enemy take damage?

Does a focus work on damage flip from a defence trigger? If it was used for defense ofc.

I played yesterday game with Colette, she stood all the game in paralease, did not perform any action for the game, and won the game thanks to her ability "Rehearsed" and their DF triggers, as for me it's just an excellent master

and by the way this is not the only a way to deliver the pig) is also a way to deliver the master (if he does not need additional cards and he wants to personally take part in a fight)

1 minute ago, Adran said:

If you use Bowled over, you have no say on the location of anything from that point. (Your point of control is where you put the pig in the first place)

Sommers as the defending side will get 1 push in any direction , thereby he can correct where he will be pushed by a pig
or have I again misused their trigger?

22 minutes ago, Adran said:

The rules written say that you have to push to base contact, and the rules also say that a push to base contact is a push in relation to another object so must be performed in the shortest distance possible. 

That doesn't invalidate the list, but it does possibly explain why people here said positiong is hard, and you thought it was easy if you were mis-readign the push rules. Whilst it doesn't lower the Maximum effect of the list, it does make placement a much more exacting science.

its sad ( it will be 5 inches shorter, or 8 if do not use the geometry (if there is enough space you can make the last push at right angles to the target, this will give us almost 13 inch of a total of just 3 extra inches in size 8 )
while pulling the last push can still be used to make a charge around the corner

10 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Any push in relqtio to another object. How can iu reach base contact with somethig without in any way relaing to it? Towards and away are just a couple of examples given, not all the wordings it applies to.

in the rules it is written that I must move in a straight line fulfilling the condition of the push, and yes "to the mode"l and "from it" is а condition and an example, that does not quite have to do with the kind of push

1 minute ago, Ludvig said:

Yes, always when you push in any way i relatio to abother object or model. Som'er pushes first though so he could push to the side so you have a clear path. That will significantly reduce your forward momentum but could help you get around bloking stuff.

it's true if you need to move to the object or from it, here the condition is quite different, I do not violate it in any way if I finish pushing in the btb but sideways

1 minute ago, Kadeton said:

I figured you would have to use that second AP to walk around Som'er and get into position to charge on the next activation - pushing into base contact with him when he's moving towards the enemy will almost always mean he'll be in the way of your charge.

is push into btb means a push on the shortest distances?

7 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Killing the whisperer serms higly unlikely but the pig is up a fair bit on the duel and has some pretty nice triggers like slow or charging again straight back through the crew. Pretty decent result for a single obey even if it just causes a couple of damage points on something and a few cheated high cards from Som'er.

but you also spend a lot of it for this, risking, and to run so much forward you need at least to make up your mind) because you need to do this before he gives out reactivation,  this will give you -2 reactivation on pigs, but when this will give me the early 3 cards and the opportunity to reach the pigs wherever I need for 1 activation) but the idea is not without sense

3 minutes ago, Adran said:

Ooh I like the Sommer trick, that's a nice touch I hadn't thought of. 

it looks like you have become a bit closer to understanding the danger of this roster ))

12 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

That should mean Perdita can obey a charge against the whisperer

this will be an attack without +, which most likely will not lead to anyone's death

and even if it leads to it, it will simply bring the next 3 cards into the hand of the sommers

23 hours ago, looka said:

the most dangerous thing in this roster is the recklessness of his player) which can allow to deliver a pig at 26 inches for 1 action of the pig itself) preserving +
this is very dangerous) especially if you consider that this is impossible)

)) I think this line you even ignored) or did not believe

1 minute ago, Tris said:

The (I guess) private tables don`t look that bad to me and some flame walls, def 8 or 9 models, stone pillars or disguised whatever could block the pigs charge lanes pretty effectively.

so on this table I do not use pigs)))))

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/svhsvsy2ks3td7p/AAAkAJpPUYfXer2WIc8EL7p6a?dl=0
 

this is my home table, and yes it is very difficult for this roster) but in tournaments I often meet more empty tables with a bunch of snipers that annoy me)

11 minutes ago, Adran said:

A few things. - Whilst I agree the list does look like it is not very activation dependent, there is a fair amount that is. You want the pigs to start in Majors Aura, you probably don't want to send them off before they have re-activate, the crier as a card cyler is pretty important as in the get you bro as card draw, because Pigs with an average hand are only doing 4-6 damage in  an activation before damage reduction. 

So whilst I can see that the ideal set of actions listed, is not completely required to power up the list, there is a fair amount that is needed. 

I would expect this list to be very scary if someone faced it for the first time without realising what it was going to do. I would expect it to be just Scary against an opponent that understands it. It is a very strong alpha strike list, but there are a reasonable range of counters, several of which have been mentioned here.

Having read about it here, I would still expect a player who understands it to be able to outdo a lot of my attempts to block it the first few games, but I would be very surprised if I was wiped out the first turn, as it is certainly capable of against an up-prepared player. 

But I also do believe you are committing the same error that you accuse others of.  If you don't think its vulnerable to a 1 turn alpha strike because its still quite back, then you haven't seen the same level of threat that I have. I've seen Sonnia light up models in their enemy deployment zone which can easily kill mosquitos (Not a huge risk ito this crew, but its still a risk) I've sent "re-activating" warpigs into enemy crews on the first turn because they didn't expect it (one thing not suggested here, but that may help is using a Mosquito as a stampede enabler, moving it up to a place where the pig charges it for its first AP, and able to set up its stampede trigger into someone else.)

I'm also not sure that the hitting power you have is going to be great against things like the peace keeper that combines hard to wound with armour. I really can't see a re0-activating war pig with positive flips to everything actually killing 1 (In the pigs ideal circumstance, it charges, gets 2 attacks, then stampeded to something easy to kil, and then charges back to the peace keeper, but I'm hard pressed to see those 7 attacks (You start activation 2 engaged with the peace keeper) doing more than 10 damage and that costs you quite a lot of your well crafted Hand to make it happen even that well. Granted that's a model that is one of the worst targets for you to hit, so you will try to avoid it, and you may well have the movement to do so, but every time your opponent puts this kind of block, you are losing some of the raw power. 

 

My conclusion is that this list will be devastating against an un-suspecting opponent. and against an expecting opponent, the list may do well, but there are certainly several ways that it can go wrong, and the list is set up for 1 good turn and relying on the enemy not being able to do anything in the rest of the game because your good turn crippled it. 

There may well be more depth to it, and I might be underestimating the power of the hand, but since 9 of the cards you draw are coming off you getting your bro, I think that is its weak point. If you "only" cycle 8 cards and draw 2 others, then you have a good hand, but not enough to consistently create the havoc you want, and I think that if your turn doesn't work, then you don't have the depth on a turn where you have no extra card draw or cycling to compete even with a badly damaged list. 

I think I give it more credit than others, but it is a one trick pony list. Its a very good trick, probably with the potential to be more devistating that a well placed Viks bomb, but it still relies on the 1 trick (of having a huge hand to send re-activating war pigs into the enemy crew  and consistently hitting and doing moderate or better damage). 

wow, I'll try to answer what I could translate)
1 -  You want the pigs to start in Majors Aura, you probably don't want to send them off before they have re-activate - 
it's not exactly true), I can do it and after the pigs are brought back into aura with the help of whisperer (the saddle on the major will allow me to do this after passing 10 and in the pulse 8 after this, from a fairly large distance, the pig will again find itself in the aura of the major and will receive reactivation)
2 - the crier as a card cyler is pretty important as in the get you bro as card draw - 
it's true but not quite true, 2 cards per stone, 2 cards with upgrade "do over" and the death of the crier will bring me 3 cards, this is enough given that the pigs will attack with +, But at full cycle it will be more comfortable
3 - I'm also not sure that the hitting power you have is going to be great against things like the peace keeper that combines hard to wound with armour - 
pigs can get ++, peacekeeper dies-verified) with 3 attack
4- There may well be more depth to it, and I might be underestimating the power of the hand, but since 9 of the cards you draw are coming off you getting your bro, I think that is its weak point. - 
Yes, you're right), but the pigs still remain models with + for everything, Markus is quite manageable and without 9 cards) than the pigs are worse?

the most dangerous thing in this roster is the recklessness of his player) which can allow to deliver a pig at 26 inches for 1 action of the pig itself) preserving +
this is very dangerous) especially if you consider that this is impossible)

4 minutes ago, Haagrum said:

2. Hans uses "Smile, You Son Of A...", then tags both War Pigs (which are apparently being porcine shields) and knocks One Pig Against The World off both.

Hans is a great idea, But I would be more scared of his ram trigger )) it is really a very strong counter

38 minutes ago, Lokibri said:

Possible masters that could be good at stopping this are:

Hoffman (when having big machines with armor), sonnia with area denial, mccabe with loot bags and making a BIG model disguised and finally nellie with her "run from the truth" Aura. First i also thought of perdita and trigger on the finger, but that is not an option as soon as they struck you and you have to randomize.

Other models, that are very good against this would be:

Franciso, giving +2 out is great and a flurry attack with debt will kill a war pig for sure.

Models that can stack "fees" on them will be alrightish. The problem here is "eat your fill", but it will limit them a bit.

Abuela Ortega. This is a pretty clear solution for the problem. She is tough, denies all consecutive charges and is an overall awesome model! Positioning is key, but i think this modell can do troublesome moments for the opponent! Try her!

Hofman - no (at least standard, pigs relatively easily kill armored targets, especially when there are not many of them)
sonnia  - yes (already figured out above)
mccabe - no 
nellie - yes ) (It is good against gremlins as a whole, and here can try to keep the counter-arguments, scrolling activations)
Franciso -no (dead do not flury)
"fees" - no (dead do not fees)
Abuela - no (too small aura to stop 10 inches charge)

21 minutes ago, Lokibri said:

So, instead of telling people they can't see the full potential while they are trying to find solutions while working on an example that is "typical" for this build, you could explain it to them and maybe find a solution with them.

I just tried to do this)
my words are not mockery) I just stated the fact
but they do not believe me)
there were 2 people who expressed good thoughts, they were PolishSausage and Ludvig ) But they will be useful only if you understand where the threat will come from
all the others said it's impossible, we will win 10-0, it does not play )) and only Ludvig asked "how?"
 

2 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Well damn.  Sounds like the game is solved.  Let's pack it up boys. This is the uber- list and it cannot be touched by us mere mortals.

you can quietly mock) you do not get smarter from this) it suits me)

reading all this, I understand that most of you simply do not imagine what gremlins in general (
even after you explained that this roster can I see very strange statements about the order of activations about the strings and so on (

that part of the guide that you threw off at the beginning of the post is a guide for beginners.

this roaster can be used by a variety of options that are not included in the guide so as not to complicate the beginners understanding of Somers as a master and not to overload the text

1-this roster does not need strict control of activations 
2-pigs can charge at any time without additional pushes on the 36 inch
3-This roster is played with a saddle on the major that gives the opportunity to drive a whisper around the map and pull the pigs back giving them reactivation and allowing them to attack again from the aura of the major
4-kill a mosquito you will not give anything, the aura will give out just Somers (although I do not understand how you will take a mosquito for a 150mm wall of pigs)
killing any of the gremlins will simply bring me less cards that are not scary
5-This roster can be used simply for pressure and "swine fencing" by constantly pulling pigs back
6-this roster can play from Somers, exhausting the cards and then picking them up again (I do not need to break through the 7th will I have enough to cast, so that the opponent throws out high cards)
7-or simply through shooting at the pigs with subsequent blasts, after which the pigs are simply heals

this is a very diverse roster, and you see only a strict sequence of activations(how sad it is, given that you were told almost everything)

unprepared person meeting with this roster in 1 time in the tournament gets the same emotions as from the first meeting with victoria

This roaster is just a cartridge from the clip, from a very large clip (and I see people here who think that having their Vik in the gremlins faction is 10-0 in his favor, I understand that these people are not very strong players)
and yes, if the enemy tries to control this roster and take full anti-charge - this is at least good for gremlins who gravitate toward shooting

here sounded good ideas how to resist this roster playing for the guild, but its main danger is that you still do not understand how it works

8 hours ago, Lokibri said:

Ps: I think a good way to stop this would be either to engage the pigs before they can charge, setup some clockwork traps to interfere with the charges or flame pillars. A general solution could be hans to kill the whisperer, but that is a coinflip.

You will not be able to engage the pigs while Mayоr and whisperer is alive
the clockwork they will be trampolines for pigs no more than
flame pillars can become a problem only if there are narrow places and there is no way to get around it, otherwise the pigs will simply bypass them, for this 1 pig has 26 inches of distance before the chardge

1 hour ago, katadder said:

50 SS Outcasts Crew
Leveticus 

I agree with Gremlin above, I do not know how you expect this roster to kill what you do not see (
you do not have chain activation, you are vulnerable to charge on any of the stages of delivery levy
Rusty can not protect the whole team from charge, you just lose all the models and most likely all vaifu

the first pig in this roster without anyone's help can charge models with 36 inch from it, having + to everything or even ++ if necessary
the second pig can do the same in 26
Then both can attack the next target 10 inches from the first
After that they will have also reactivation
and they, unlike levy, can do this at any moment of the turn
In addition, the somers can simply reset the levy's hand and collect 13 cards later in his hand if the Levi is so impatient to run ahead

if you are hoping that Rusty will cover the whole team in her aura, then you will be disappointed, Somers can perfectly sacrifice a pig to cover all this disgrace several times with templates