Hawkoon

It's a bit of a diffucult time choosing masters right now, as every master in the game just got another version of themselves. We're all scratching our heads trying to figure them out, and how this aspect impacts the game as a whole.

For the sake of this thread let's just ignore that shall we?

Just going by the original 3E masters the easiest to get into the game is probably Nekima and Titania (I started playing during the latter part of 2E, so I don't know much about 1E, but what I do know is that 2E and 3E are very different games, so I'd suggest you approach the game as you would a completely new game).

The nephilim are your typical offensive, fast, alpha strike force. And are quite squishy in return. Some find them too straight forward, but my experience is that you'll have to think about placement a whole lot more than with some other crews. One bad placement often results in a models early demise.

Titania is a bit of the opposite of Nekima. She's really really hard to take down, but even though Titania herself is quite fast, the rest of the Fae is a bit on the slow side. She is a very forgiving master to play as both her and her crew tend to be more resilent (no one plays bultungin, so i'm not counting them). So a bad placement doesn't completely screw you over in the same way as with Nekima. She also likes to play with 50mm terrainmarkers, so placing them at the right places is quite improtant to playing her well.

Dreamer has long been considered the best master in nvb because he is a summoner that have some really great keyword models. He did get a bit of a nerf, but is still very good. His keyword has such a large pool of models that he can be played in many different ways, from big beefy beaters to speedy schemers. Because of this playing Dreamer is pobably the biggest moneydrain in the faction as you need A LOT of models to utilize his full potential.

The biggest contender for best in faction is probably Zoraida. She can be played in both Bayou and Neverborn, so has access to quite a large keyword as well across both factions. The biggest strenght of Zoraida is her stat 7 Obey action which has 2 really great triggers, one for giving the obeyed model 2 actions and another for giving it fast. As she can arc her spells through firendy swampfiend models you do want a some keyword models in her crew, because she isn't exactly fast, and you don't want to waste her actions wlaking. Silurids are now Bayou, but as they share keyword with Z she can bring them into her neverborn crew, and you really should because they are one of the best schemers in the game. Oh, and her bonus action is great. Both players discard their hand and draw up to their hand size.

Pandora is quite good, and still plays her misery bubble pretty well, though it's not as powerful as it was in 2E. I always take Candy with her, as Candy can be really oppressive for your opponent if played well. Her basic play is to deal out stunned to opponents and pinging them for damage (or move them if that is relevant). Her crew is quite vulnerable to ruthless opponents that ignore terrifying and minpulative though, so I feel she's a bit hit or miss already at crewbuiling.

Then there is Lucius... He plays a bit like Zoraida in commanding his own models around the board and drawing tons of cards in the process. His keyword does have a lot of support models, but generally lacks good beaters, so he often ends up with some models outside of his keyword. In neverborn I prefer to hire Mature nephilim, and because they are minions he can command them around even though they do not share his keyword. A good case can be made for Insidious madness as well.

New to the neverborn are Marcus and Euripides.

Marcus is probably slightly better in arcanists because of their upgrades, but as he doesn't have to pay extra for beasts in his declared faction he has a lot of beast models to play with in neverborn. His playstyle is that of a support master that can hand out and cycle upgrades to you keyword models and beasts, and command them about. I tend to play him mostly in keyword (and that means mostly arcanists models), but there are some neverborn beasts like Grootslang, will o' the wisps and Bandersnatch that does play well with him.

Euripides is a bit of a mixup between beater, control and support master. He does a little bit of everything. Though he has a lot of health you need to be carful with him, because he does tend to bleed out fast and it's hard to keep him out of sight becuase of his sheer size. The most important things he does is to fill up the board with ice pillars that does damage to your opponents when placed and can be used in various ways by his kewyord models. Placing the pillars right is key to success wth him as they are block off your opponets paths, provide cover, heals and gives shielded to your keyword models. Important thing to note is that he does have an ability to teleport to ice pillars, so he can actually be higly mobile despite appreance.

Wall of text there, but hopefully helpful. Most important, pick one that seems fun to play and appeals to your sense of aesthetics.

31 minutes ago, KlausFischer said:

As a scheme runner, it suffers from 0'' melee. If a 1'' melee enemy engages it, it can't use Ambush anymore, so its only way out is using Through the Brush. For that, it needs to have the Underbrush Marker it intends to jump to already in place - possible, but maybe you'd rather have it somewhere else. I'm not sold on it entirely.

You only need a 6 of mask on germinate to get out with the reposition trigger. Bonus is you can reposition into the marker you place if you have some other terrain to jump to.

Edit:

I got to try it out on tuesday, and it was awesome. My opponent declared Seamus, so I didn't dare go for Titania 2 in case he brought Seamus 1. I played the following list:

• Titania w/AP
• Gorar
• Kurgan
• Erymathian boar w/IR
• Mysterious Emissary
• Walgeist w/AP
• Waldgeist

We were playing Turf war  with flank deployment. The map had a lot of forests so it was quite easy to move the boar around the board, and I placed some underbrush quite strategically to get the boar up the board fast. Turn 1 Kurgan places the boar with Shifting earth into severe terrain letting the boar hop to one of my underbrush markers. When the boar activaes he uses ambush into a new forest and places in base with a corner strat marker flipping it and walking to a safe spot. Second turn the boar walks back into the forest and places near the opponents deployment zone, uses ambush and place a scheme marker to score Breakthrough.  Didn't get to finish the game, but the boar did a magnificent role scheming. (The combination of Emissary, Kurgan, Boar and waldgeists was better than I would have thought, but seems quite map dependant)

8 hours ago, Cranky Old Man said:

[...] as the original target has to be still alive for the second point [...]

Doesn't need to be the original target. Any model will do as long as you get 2 scheme markers close enough. (and that's not very hard with Lucius)

Just to chime in on the Teddy-train.

Teddy can also do some work with Kade in a Pandora crew (Kade can bring him without tax. He also has a bonus action that can move Teddy, and if he ends in base contact they both heal 2 and Kade can be placed somewhere else in base contact with Teddy)

With Pandora Teddy can get quite tanky if engaged to enemy models, due to a lot of wp duels and feed on fear.

Not exactly Titania 2, but what are peoples thoughts on how the pig works? "Through the brush" states that when this model moves into severe terrain it may place itself completely within 6". Does this mean that it cannot start its move in the same piece of terrain?

It's still incredibly mobile given Twotania's Royal escort or lashing tendrils from Rex.

I also think it might be worth giving him IR, as scamper seems incredible if you can push into severe terrain with it. And with 0" melee blade rush seems quite handy just to get into position (although if you can charge into severe terrain it does make it easier to get him into position).

Back in the days when Dreamer could summon stitched, I still preferred to summon madness. They were great then, and are great now.

They are invaluable as support for your melee beaters, just for the heals from their attacks, so I tend to start with one on the board in nearly every game.

I have been thinking a little bit about how to avoid the Tara2-33-bomb, and I think maybe brining a wisp might be a good call.

Place it close to Titania (or whichever master you bring and 33 will be getiing distracted from shimmering lights when going in.

I'll take the advice on not going Titania2 if Tara is decalered next time. I just wanted to try the new master out and this was my first and only game so far with her, and I didn't know about this trick before the game.

Well...

After having Titania buried by 33 on the fist activation of the first turn of the game (against Tara 2), then to be unburied in my opponents deployment engaged and surrounded behind a building made the changeling pretty useless.

Maybe I'll get to try it out in another game

14 hours ago, Roadhouse said:

A Changeling with AP will draw one at the end of its activation and if you Dark Bargain it you draw 1 from Following Orders. I also tried Lilitu w/ AP with Noxious while having the AP Changeling so that was another card I was drawing. Felt pretty good overall

And you didn't feel you were loosing out on damage potential/speed? Might try it out sometime.

I've only had one game with her so far, and I felt I didn't have enough card draw to make any good use of the recycle mechanic. I kinda want to try her with Lelu and Lilitu, but I'm having trouble fitting them in.

15 hours ago, ShinChan said:

Alpha the alpha! Otherwise take models with Take the Hit or Extended Reach are the first solutions that come to mind so far.

Yes, that is probably a good counter in some factions, but neverborn have 0 models with take the hit and only geryon with extended reach. Not knowing if you'll be up against Tara1 or Tara2 makes it a huge risk taking geryon ook. 

On 8/23/2021 at 9:32 PM, ShinChan said:

Emissary for deployment to deployment, even in corner (measured in Vassal) attack with 33, bury someone, then go back to your echo marker, close to your deployment zone. It seems brutal.

Size: 50 - Pool: 3
Leader:
  Tara
Totem(s):
  Karina
Hires:
  33
  Hodgepodge Emissary
  The Nothing Beast
  Talos
  Scion of the Void
  Prospector

Played aganist this exact list with Titania2 yesterday, and I have to say it was not fun... at all. Titania got buried by 33 the first activation of the first turn and there was nothing I could do about it since my opponent had a 13 on hand. Titania did practically nothing but tank attacks for the rest of the game. (I eventually gave up after turn 3)

I did not know about this "trick" and I have to say this is the first time in the 3 years i've been playing that I've really felt like "flipping the table" (was a vassal game so not technically possible). I don't mind being penalized for not knowing my opponents crew, but I don't really think knowing beforehand would change the NPE very much either. If anyone know a proper way to counter this (that doesn't involve cramming my crew together an entire game), I'm all ears.

44 minutes ago, Regelridderen said:

Good Lucius will be fielding 4 stones and…

The Scribe

2 Mature Nephilim w. Inhuman Reflexes

Candy

Lawyer

And a False Witness

His evil Nexus infested twin will field 7 stones and…

The Scribe

Agent 46

Doppleganger

Grootslang

False Witness w Pact

Lawyer

Changeling

And which one is yours? (I assume the "nexus infested twin" means the new Dishonorable Lucius?)

2 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

I definitely need to play with Lucius and his mature nephilims. 

I might look into Candy over the Emissary/Serena. She doesn’t need cards to be a nuisance, can heal and can really profit from getting tossed around by a couple of nephs. 

That is a good option. With 2 matures she shouldn't have a problem getting into position either.

Now why didn't I think of that? I guess I tend to reach for Serena for healing out of old habit ...

I just think that if you're going for the double matures, you'll need to be dedicated to making it work, and you'll need to support them well, because if they die it's game over. One way of doing that is just go all in and try to kill all threats before they get to retaliate, but I would probably try to bring in some healing just to keep the engine running. I don't really think there is room for a dedicated lodestone carrier in such a crew.

After thinking it through a bit more, I'd just swap out the Emissary for Serena.

New Lucius Mattheson Crew
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Serena Bowman
  Guild Lawyer
  Changeling
  Mature Nephilim
    Inhuman Reflexes
  Mature Nephilim 2
    Inhuman Reflexes

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Planted roots on leylines was the main reason.

Yeah, that makes sense. He doesn't really have much other synergy with Lucius, so I was just curious if there were something I've missed.

You could also bring a waldgeist for the same purpose for less SS, and be able to issue command to it as well.

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think Lucius is so fun in guild and I'm keen to try his build in Neverborn. This is what I'd take:

New Lucius Mattheson Crew (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 4
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Mysterious Emissary
  Guild Lawyer
  Changeling
  Mature Nephilim
    Inhuman Reflexes
  Mature Nephilim 2
    Inhuman Reflexes
 

But can easily swap out the hooded rider for the emissary to carry the lodestone.

It is a funky obey style crew, but I think it is good fun.

EDIT: Since it isn't always clear, basically what Lucius does is issue command a Mature Neph, then issue command to a changeling to issue command to a mature neph, then issue command to a lawyer to obey a mature neph (assuming it discarded a mask earlier in the turn). And since the Mature neph can charge while engaged, that can be three charges in one activation! Then Lawyer can obey Mature neph/obey changeling to command Neph, and changeling can command Neph.

In total, you can get 6 extra AP for a Mature Neph, or you can split it  over the two of them.

I have played the 2x IR matures with him, and they are indeed solid (if you can keep them alive long enough).

What I would like to know is why you're bringing the Emmy?

I'd rather bring something like agent or doppelganger that can hitch a ride with matures, mimic their attack and draw cards.

(Also, a model may only charge once during a single activation, so each mature can only charge once during Lucius' activation)

6 hours ago, SEV said:

And 46 can mimic just like you to secret passage... It's all working in the end 🤣. 

Interesting... also applicable to doppleganger which has don't mind me for scheming. 🤔

41 minutes ago, SEV said:

Nooo... as you can see, I'm no Lucius player. All my dreams are shatter now 😭

But changelings suddenly became awesome schemers😄

3 minutes ago, SEV said:

 Like win intit, 46 activate to mimic secret passage charge/attack the model near the marker. 

If only you could mimic master actions...

51 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I like NuLucius a lot. If he get's staggered on a model and is standing near the marker he dropped, he can hit pretty damn hard by himself. Of get a whole bunch of attacks with Coordinated strike.

The ability to hand out suits seems pretty stellar to me. If a little hard to use with the lack of ranged attacks in Keyword.

Doppleganger with Angeleyes suddenly seems a whole lot scarier with built in suits when mimicing her gun at stat 7.

The new Shojo can be hired into 3 factions as well. TT and Bayou obviously, but also into NVB with Hinamatsu.

A bit late to the party, but Iggy with the eldrich magic upgrade is stellar at removing burning form pretty much any model. You could play him without the upgrade, but using oppurtunist with dispel magic is guaranteed to remove burning (even if you flip a BJ on the duel), and at range as well so he doesn't have to get up close. I haven't played him against Sandeep, but's he's ace against Kaeris to remove both burning and injured reliably.

6 minutes ago, Peturd said:

The birds are decent schemers. Worst case you target a friendly to get scheme markers where you need em’. And they are fast as heck with flight.

Sadly the trigger is enemy only, and with just stat 4, that's not very reliable. Honestly I don't think the birds will see much play. Marcus looks solid though.

I'm guessing he'll have some way of having models taking actions outside their activation to make use of mimic/elite models "Following orders". Outside of that, I have no clue what to expect.