Cadaver_Junkie

Hi guys!

I’ve been hitting things with Brewmaster over in Gremlins for a while now, and I think I have a reasonable grasp of how he does things.

Time to break into Ten Thunders!

Although I’m looking forward to painting my Misaki, I’d like to try the following list. Mostly because I love the models, I’ll be painting these things first, and I want to make it (or similar) work. 

Difficulty: no Yassinori or Terracotta warrior, I want to put things on the field less played and make them work. So, Oiran!

I’ve started messing around with something similar: running Tanuki with Iron Skeeters.

Not as silly/strong as the Tanukipault, however I think it’s more tactically flexible

20 hours ago, daniello_s said:

Then you meet Dr. McMourning and your poison will work against you but general idea seems fun.

Just take an Akaname or two against ressurectionists- I don’t really have any more difficulty against McMourning than other masters when I can move poison around so easily. 

1 minute ago, Lokibri said:

I just want to add: Whiskey Golem is a serious threat with Tanuki on reactivate and self-healing upgrade. Especially hitting him and his auto def trigger can cause harmful trouble when brewie follows. Be aware of that

True! And isn't it just nice that Fingers gives out exactly 3 poison when he punches?

2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

@Cadaver_Junkie

Nice to hear from an, actual Brewie player! It's been a while since I faced him so I haven't seen all his latest tricks but it looked like he had a similar thing going even after wave 5.

It still looks to me like Brewie is vulnerable if he doesn't go first in a turn and wants people in his aura rather than outside. Swill is until the end of the turn so any activation before Brewmaster will not be at negatives. I'd be interested to hear what sort of workaround you have that's so effective that you're not stressed about losing initiative.

I don't really plan around Brewmaster being the heavy hitting support model in my crew. There are so many other models you can include in a Tri-Chi based list that bounce synergy off each other, Brewmaster is effectively a bonus. A very powerful bonus if he's working right. At least, this is how I plan my lists.

So if I lose Brewmaster, I'm not really worried. I'll get another from Wesley half the time anyway. And maybe summon a second Wesley while I'm at it!

Fingers will score and ruin schemes
A Performer can assist Fingers in scheme ruination
Whiskey golem and Swine-Cursed will do damage when/as required
Moon Shinobi will lend valuable melee and scheme support in any of the above
Akaname and Tanuki will lend buffing support to the team
 

And they all buff each other. Well, maybe not the Swine-Cursed, but those guys are fantastic anyway. And two Swine-Cursed smacking into a twice swilled target? Ouch.

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

They got errata at the same time, this is the reviewed model.  

He is oppressive if you don't have condition removal but so are a lot of crews I think. If the opponent can remove Swill I'm not sure he's that horrible to face. 

True.

Which means there have been games where Brewmaster has activated second last or even actually last in my crew, just because there weren't any great targets to choose immediately and after losing initiative. If I can't rely on Swill, he's still a pretty good Obey master - and  all that poison everywhere makes it fairly reliable with his new upgrade. Just have an Akaname spit poison on two of your heavy hitters (or your opponent's) then obey them for attacks.

Extra triggered charges in the case of obeyed Swine-Cursed or Rooster Riders can be fun - managed some total carnage once with two Swine-Cursed via Obey, even though Brewmaster pretty much activated last. I actually hid Brewie much of that game.

Or simply move models away or towards scoring schemes! In conjunction with Fingers and a Performer, you can completely frustrate your opponents ability to score on many schemes and strats. Sometimes this is a lot more powerful than even Swill or his aura. Even summoning a Wesley as your last crew's activation has won me a game, 'cos the newly summoned Wesley is a scoring model.

I also keep Sparks around if my spidey sense indicates an opponent may bring lots of condition removal.

Brewmaster isn't the most classically powerful Gremlin master, but I think he can face most enemy crews and have a reasonable chance of success. He's like, pure blue deck to those MTG players our there.

Just now, ElPuto said:

Oh forgot about Mate, yes!

Criers are fun, and can make new Bayou Gremlins for Dread Pirate, so they're totally worth!

 

I think the Gremlin Criers could really shine in GG18, there's so many things they can shut down (or score! Think about Take Prisoner - if the crier is engaged with the prisoner, it doesn't matter how many other enemy models are nearby. I'm running my crier with a piano dropping Iron Skeeter for his ride). 

4 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

I would ask you just a couple of things: once i have no more cards in my hands, there is a way to draw some cards with zipp or his pieces?

I've just started painting up my Zipp crew, but I'm messing around with:

First Mate + Treasure Map + Where the captain can't see (for card draw and discard with silly amounts of free bonuses)
AND Gremlin Crier - draw a card whenever a card is discarded. Hilarity ensues if you have multiple criers (although they are expensive).

3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Zero actions can be more powerful than 1AP actions since they are limited to only being used once an activation and most thing that allow a model to take out of activation actions don’t allow zero actions to be taken.

True.

My point remains though - the zero action for Brewmaster can be a trap, for the Brewmaster player! I never rely on it. Sometimes I've had it go off maybe once in a game at most, but I've still won the game because I don't care about it.

On the plus side of all this, excellent opportunity for a Miss Print alternate model!

Amina Naidu maybe? Or The Printing Press?

4 hours ago, PolishSausage said:

Sebastian and Assura rotten are good for Dog Factory,

Dogs/ Rafkin charge 1ap models with poison.

minimum 2 bells to start pulling enemy models to you, and in few corner cases your models out of bubble.

3x little gassers to spread poison without attacking and be a pain. 

Chiaki for condi removal

 

Sit back with McM and expunge key pieces t1 and t2 before going in there. If you want to annoy your opponent take between 3-6 guild autopsies 1-2 bells and grave spirit for reactivate shtick

I've learned from this! 

I'm mostly a Brewmaster player, and I always take two Akaname against ressers. Means I can control where the poison is, taking it from my models or the enemy, and vomiting it onto other targets. Very effective.

McMourning is much less trouble now.

3 hours ago, Ludvig said:

The first times I faced him I voluntarily sent my models in to kill him and bail out the ones he had trapped in the aura and I was handed my ass on a platter. You need to realise that he sucks majorly if he doesn't have many models near him and that sending in more will never solve the problem. A single model that gets to go before him can hurt him badly so tricks for winning initiative or forcing something else to go before Brewie messes with him. He isn't a fan of being shot at either.

For a seasoned player he is a low-tier master but if you haven't learned his trick(s) he can feel almost impossibly good. 

Once you've learned to use Brewmaster properly, you never ever rely on the drinking bubble. Some games I barely use it at all! If it works, it's a bonus.
There's a reason it's only a zero AP action.

It's all about Swill. Swill swill swill swill swill. So good there's pretty much no point in taking upgrades that compete with swill for Brewmaster's AP.

Then it doesn't matter if he goes first or not, and it doesn't matter if he's at range. In fact, he'd prefer to be at range. I don't think he's low tier at all, I just think many people don't understand him. He's not the strongest, just don't underestimate him. 

1 hour ago, daniello_s said:

McMourning kills Moon Shinobis in second with Flesh Construct summoned on the top of this kill. Kirai kills them as well summoning Gaki. Moon Shinobis die so fast i hardly see Ressers having any problems with them. 

This is mostly true. Although, you shouldn't be sending in unsupported Moon Shinobis unless they need to die for VP.
Moon Shinobis with swill though can be a great way to tie up many enemy models and waste AP. Once had a double swilled Moon Shinobi hold up 4 enemy models a full 2 turns. And now they are only 5SS

I love Brewmaster!

I've taken him to about 4 tournaments now so far, and smashing with him.

Last tournament, using only Brewmaster,  I won 4 games to 1 loss and came second - so I don't believe him to be all that second rate. Especially Swill, my god. More important than the Obey, most games. And now, with a cheaper Running Tab, Moon Shinobi and Whiskey Golem you can fit a whole extra model in your crew with the difference. Assuming you run him thematically.

Some of those wins were brutal too, which brings me to an important aspect; 
There may be a hidden advantage to Brewmaster as people don't expect to face him at a tournament, and often don't have a lot of experience with or against him so are more likely to make mistakes. Like not cheating everything you have to stop the first instance of 'Swill' in a turn, or actually allowing an important model to be stuck in the bubble.

Mostly though, I find him to be a lot of fun. I'm sure Zoraida can be too, but there it is. I don't think you'd be painted into a corner at all! 

1 hour ago, Drunken Kung Fu Kid said:

I can actually answer my own question right here:
You dont want to be using this list to obey the roosters primarily but to swill opponents and they let the roosters destroy them. Swap Aionus with the 2 swinecursed if you wanna have even more fun with them roosters =). Before the Rooster nerf I played aionus with roosters in Zoraida and it was beautiful.

Twice in the last week I’ve picked up an Aionus box and put it back down at the LGS. May become three times, without the put down...

30 minutes ago, Drunken Kung Fu Kid said:

 

and what exactly makes you take brewmaster to obey things you need to poison when our faction has the best obey master in the game ?

Truthfully? RULE OF COOL

Also, I've only been playing a little while and I know Brewmaster. Don't know Zoraida all that well, yet.

And really, I didn't rule out other masters - I just said I'd look at this through the eyes of Brewmaster!

...so now that's said, what do you think? It's a silly list, would probably never take, but as an idea?

I'm looking at this guy through the eyes of Brewmaster!

Basic list to flesh out;

 50 SS Gremlins Crew
The Brewmaster + 6 Pool
-A Friendly Ear
Apprentice Wesley (3)
Big Brain Brin (7)
Swine-Cursed (7)
Swine-Cursed (7)
Rooster Rider (6)
Rooster Rider (6)
Rooster Rider (6)
Akaname (4)
 

Big Brain Brin can reactivate a Rooster per turn.

The Akaname can give models poison, so it's much easier for Brewmaster to Order them around.

3SS remaining to spend, so maybe replace a Swine-Cursed with Fingers for ample access to scheme markers (and healing).

If I'm reading this correctly, on a perfect (unlikely) play you can have  14 rooster charges per turn. Although they'll be burning themselves out pretty quickly.

1 minute ago, solkan said:

 

Part of your question is answered by pointing you to the Aura rules.  By default, you resolve every instance of an aura that's in range.  For instance, the stacking example in the rule book is the Canine Remains ability Hunting Dogs.  If you're within 3 Hunting Dog auras, all three apply.

When you add the words "one or more models with this ability", the ability does less, not more.

 

 

Nice, cheers. 

18 minutes ago, solkan said:

How are you planning on "healing as you go" when you damage multiple criers at the same time?  

They can heal themselves, plus I'll probably be running Fingers etc. Also, not too fussed if they die, so long as they get their task done, whatever that may be.

18 minutes ago, solkan said:

On the other hand, Wyrd has a peculiar style for writing the auras the contain the word "one or more".  Compared to those other, similarly worded effects:

• "discards one or more cards" means you only resolve the ability once, regardless of how many cards are discarded
• "within 3 of one or more models with this ability" means that you only get to resolve the ability once (pick one eligible instance of the ability), not once per Gremlin Crier in existence at the time

 

Is there an FAQ or something I can refer to? Apologies if this is really basic stuff, and cheers for the assist...

Hi all!

Question about the Gremlin Crier (which I think is an AMAZING model, both in hobby and play terms. Especially the one with the bell, my favourite).
I've just grabbed a box of three, plan to run at least one in my new Zipp crew, with Iron Skeeters dropping them on objectives.

So;

The Over Excited Ability - can you draw multiple cards with multiple Gremlin Criers, for every single card discarded?

From the front of the card:
Over Exited

"When a friendly model within 3" (Aura) of one or more models with this Ability discards one or more cards as the result of a friendly Ability or Action, this model may suffer 1 damage to draw a card. If this model's controller has six or more cards in hand after resolving this Ability, this model suffers 1 additional damage."

The thing is, a Gremlin Crier Over Exited Ability is potentially triggered if a friendly discard is made within the 3" Aura of ANY Gremlin Crier on the field. "One or more models with this Ability", not "This model".

That could be a massive amount of card draw over the game, especially if you heal these guys as you go, inbuilt zero action or otherwise.

Makes sense in a way, Gremlin Criers calling out the news to each other...

Thoughts? I've only been playing Malifaux a little while, so maybe I've missed something.

EDIT: I mean, have someone discard to go defensive, and draw two or three cards in return! Nice. I like having all the 13's and Jokers in my hand.

EDIT EDIT: If this topic has already been covered, my apologies

3 hours ago, Flinroz said:

The thread is from May, so the new upgrades would likely affect the original post haha

 

Hah! Might make it difficult eh?

Not taking the new upgrade for Brewie?

A Barkeep Never Sleeps

Just played a tournament with Brewie, and this thing is brutal. I didn't think it would be so good, but I had to give it a chance. I ran it AS WELL as a Wesley in the list.

Wesley just died? Summon a new one. Brewie just died? Summon a new one. 3 Poison damage everywhere? Well, this bit isn't actually that easy to pull off, but worked well in one game that's for sure. This card makes Brewmaster competitive. 

Only 4 games, but this card helped win 3 of those. It's the psychological factor. Faced by all the respawns, your opponent often just doesn't bother and tries something else. Plus, in games when you need to control something, it can help to have a suicidal Wesley charge off somewhere, die, and respawn where you need him - next to Brewie - with a free AP!

3 hours ago, Mutter said:

Get's summoned ...

God clearly I need more sleep. I'm outta here!

12 hours ago, Noah said:

6 ss remaining

Bandersnatch!

Don't forget the Bandersnatch!

Personally, the idea of hiding these in a Teddy and forcing enemy models to fail Terror tests against the Teddy is hillarious.

7 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

I assume you are talking about Hangover and not Binge. While this is definitely an option those modifiers are generally better served on an opponents model (where it benefits the entire crew) than your Moon Shinobi (which are the only beneficiaries).  Additionally, Wesley isn't nearly as good at throwing out Swill as the Brewmaster, can only provide 2 modifiers per activation, and is a fairly squishy high priority target. The Moon Shinobi need a method of generating their own modifiers independent of the Brewmaster.

I tend to aim Brewmaster at enemy models, and Wesley at the Moon Shinobi, so it's a real mix. He'll never really fail a hangover targeting a Moon Shinobi as they just relent, and I like certainty in this game.

7 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

 

@Runeman I don't agree that Moon Shinobi are that complicated really, they just pale in comparison to other options available. Particularly those that don't require a ton of additional support to make work. This is why the Fermented River Monks are often the superior option. Even when you add in the potential support from the Brew Master, the Fermented River Monks come out ahead. Sure the Brew Master and Wesley could throw out potentially 5 modifiers on a pair of Moon Shinobi but have they really improved that much? Defense wise they might be more difficult to hit (because they get to draw up to 4 cards and can cheat) and offensively they might hit more often (again because they can potentially draw up to 4 cards and cheat) but your opponents models can still cheat and the damage profile is exactly the same. The Fermented River Monks in the same situation (though with Brewmaster and Wesley throwing   modifiers on two key enemy models instead) can have more effect, particularly if they have built up some Poison on themselves. The Monks are more difficult to hit (because affected opponents models won't be able to cheat and have to take the lowest card unless they can somehow generate enough   modifiers to offset it. This is before you consider that Poison 2 gives them Df 6) and will do more damage at the valuable weak and moderate levels than the Moon Shinobi (before you even consider the in-built Drunken Strength trigger damage addition). We don't even need to discuss the Monks ability to generate their own reactivate, which can be huge in a lot of situations.

Well, you don't have to use the Moon Shinobi. Variety is the spice of the game.

But as I said - Brewmaster targets enemies, Wesley targets friendly Moon Shinobi. Affected models attacking either Monks or Shinobi often can't cheat due to  as you say, however Shinobi don't need any poison to be DF6, and are better when there's a lot of enemy models to contend with, with all the   they have from Wesley. 

Potential monk reactivation can be weighed against all the free pushes available to the gremlins, so that can go either way.

So maybe... I'd personally support the idea that Monks are possibly better versus less enemy models, and Shinobi are better versus the swarm. Each are better in different ways against different masters, which is always the issue in this game.

Each to their own though! And I'm definitely still working on building more game experience here. Just... pretty much every time I've used Moon Shinobi, they shine bright on the table. Fermented Monks, less so. The Moon Shinobi are just so mobile!

On 9/23/2017 at 1:06 AM, edopersichetti said:

I just find Moon Shinobi are not usually worth it when you compare them for example with the drunken monks. Or a rooster rider. Just a little nudge would make them shine again!

Rooster rider, sure, although it depends on what you're looking for.

As for Drunken Monks, I don't really see it. Moon Shinobi are incredibly fast (17" first turn? :D) 

The Moon Shinobi have better stats, as it takes a bit of a buildup of poison for the Monk to get to the same DF.
The Monk can look like it has better damage with the poison addition, but then it loses DF again. In contrast, the number of times you can have a double positive flip for Moon Shinobi for damage is ridiculous, so they are a lot more consistent.

Monks can have reactivate, but it needs a lot of work, and then you're losing your DF6 again. Which the Shinobi always have. 

Where'd You Get That is also fantastic, if you're throwing poison all over the shop with Akaname and Oiran etc, pushes are great!

On 9/24/2017 at 6:08 AM, Nukemouse said:

I think moon shinobi need higher stats more than anything. Base 4 or 5 attack and glass cannon, they will die easily and not hit often. Perhaps let them give a  flip for one duel to themselves and a nearby poisoned foe? Or let them give  to themselves and  to an enemy by spending a poison during a duel, penalizing you both but if they have swill they have the advantage.

Moon Shinobi already have great Df and reasonable Wp. They attack Df or Wp, and it's rare for me that they miss both of their attacks. Drunken Gremlin Kung Fu is too great, especially when you cheat in a card to have exactly the same score as your target - triple flips for damage anyone?

Models can't use defensive stance against them, or hard to wound, or anything similar. I'm sounding like a Moon Shinobi fan boy, but I think they're fantastic and underrated on the 'net. So do my opponents.

On 9/23/2017 at 5:30 AM, Omenbringer said:

I tend to agree with you @edoperischetti the Moon Shinobi really need something outside of the Brew Master' actions to provide the all-important modifiers for them to pull their weight over other options.

I use Wesley more than any other to apply Binge to the Moon Shinobi. With Brewmaster, that's a lot of sources for the  ! 

37 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

You're right - in fact, this currently seems the most successful way to play him, probably the only way if you wanna be competitive. I had a game with him focusing only on Swilling enemies and occasionally using obey on my own models and it was a pretty solid win.

But I don't think this is how he was intended to work in the first place. In fact, designers keep insisting on the Poison mechanics, which, currently, is unexistent. He has an aura effect that simply doesn't work. Similar I think happened to Hamelin who is one of the top tier masters currently but hardly every relies on the Blighted mechanics, relying instead simply on out-activation and elite models. Similar, again, for Ophelia who was meant to cycle upgrades and hire lots of Kin, and instead was only successfully used with Kin-less crews (apart maybe from Frank) and by bringing Lenny around (at least pre-errata). I think designers are actively trying to fix this and encourage these masters to go back to their (at least partially) intended mechanics. I personally tried Ophelia with her new upgrades and she now is a lot more viable both with her gun cycling and her Kin. Hamelin himself got those Traps to encourage using Blighted. So it would be nice to see Brewmaster do Brewmaster things and happily get people drunk. Then yes, he can still use Swill, but he's not limited to just that.

As another parallel, when it was pretty clear that Colette's most powerful trick was Prompt and only Prompt, they cuddled it to prevent Colette players to just triple-Prompt every turn and encourage using other actions on her card...of course, this was only partially successful IMHO since they didn't improve any of the other actions on her card, so this just plain made her weaker, but that's another matter

As for Moon Shinobi, I love their theme, the models, everything...I'd love to see them more on the table. They feel (probably are) overcosted, and they shouldn't rely exclusively on their master to become useful. The (many) times I've tried using them, they were simply too slow to keep up and accomplish anything. Akaname might help, but again, why not fix the actual model, rather than "fixing" the model by forcing you to hire another one? It feels similar to the Zoraida "fix" with Will o Wisps...

Yeah that's probably all fairly true.

I mean, the crew was my first when I (recently!) got into Malifaux, and for ages I was trying so hard to make the poison thing work.

It was like an epiphany when I figured out spamming Binge was the best bet - but it's a departure from what it seems the model/tri chi are trying to do, and clear that it might not be as intended originally.

For Moon Shinobi, I've had nothing but awesome results from these guys. I find there's an element of skills overlap in Tri Chi (I try a thematic crew), and most models are rarely great on their own - but can stand out when supported.