Wolfpact

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The only downside to the Vulture I see is that my usual opponent has realized what it does and wants that bird dead as soon as possible when the game starts.

Yes, but the connected blog is relevant here, more so than the podcast:

https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/

And specifically, these two articles:

https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2016/10/11/quick-reference-neverborn-v1/

https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2016/08/21/building-on-a-budget-neverborn/

Mother of Monsters (Lilith) - $50
The Queen's Return (Titania) - $50
Dark Debts (Lynch) - $40
Doppelganger -  $11
Lelu & Lilitu - $18
Mr. Graves -$11
Primordial Magic- $11
Teddy - $18
Stitched Together - $21
Nekima - $25

$255 USD, Wyrd Store prices - you can likely find lower from other vendors.

Titania likes Barbaros, Lilith and Lynch are both recommended as accents to her on S&S. You want a Dopper. You just do. You also want Mr. Graves - how I played Neverborn so long without him I willnever know. Primordial Magic is great with Lilith and honestly, the GOrar (Tania's totem) is.. not impressive.

The rest of the way is filled with generally useful models. The two Upgrade Decks come to $28.00 USD store price, and are also worth having.

24 minutes ago, farmoar said:

I was in the same boat as the OP, and that I found most of the Masters unappealing. I was initially drawn to Viktorias and Marcus (Viktorias because of the look and raw power, Marcus because he can take all the beasts). While I was trying to choose between the 2 of them, I happened across a great Neverborn lot deal that I couldn't turn down. I then had a Viktoria list fall into my lap (crew box, Vanessa and Hans). As much as I love the Neverborn (Pandora and Collodi mostly), I can't wait to surprise one of my regular opponents with a fully painted Viktoria list out of nowhere.

Even then, I have been picking up Mercenaries to pad out my options. It just happens to be a bonus that most of them are Outcasts to start.
 

Play the cool shit, and mess with people's heads. I know Viktoria aren't a great take-on-all-comers Master, but I'll have fun hacking apart their pieces in the meantime.

Nothing quite as sweet as a six-stone Johan and an eight-stone Sue, is there?

51 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@Greentinsel

Go with your first instinct. Lady Justice is probably the most straight up good character even if you question the motives of the guild. I think this discussion reflects that the game doesn't have a clear-cut good or bad faction.

Which is honestly one of the best parts of the setting. Fairy-tale black-and-white morality is for fairy tales. The rich moral ambiguity and good people fighting for bad causes and groups and bad people fighting for good causes and groups is a good part of what makes Malifaux  a fantastic setting.

Actually, all this talk of souls.. I can't think of any actual major lore examples of Neverborn using soulstones... gameplay/story segregation aside.

Seriously, the Guild are literally invading, slaving soul-merchant war-profiteer fascists. But what's worse? They're also comically inefficient and compromised - Lucius and his Mimics have infested the ranks, every horror McMourning lets loose can be blamed on them putting him to studying necromancy, arguably the most powerful necromancer is the city undertaker, the Acanists are operating right under their nose and the can't stop them due to P.R. nightmares because they've made themselves so utterly despised by everyone.

So while the Neverborn are rather vicious - though not nearly to the mustache-twirling level you want to suggest - the basic fact is that for everything they do, the Guild and humanity does something equally heinous or worse.

Factor in who the invaders are here....

And that being honest, the behavior humanity in the Malifaux-verse has demonstrated with industrial-level magic and the fact we've survived decently enough in ours without it shows 'but magic is dying on Earth" is a bit of a thin excuse for the cost - both to the invaded world and its denizens, and the human one.

Plus, remember that the residents of Old Malifaux were, essentially, human as well - and that Neverborn do have humans in their ranks. 'Neverborn' being a pretty broad human-assigned label for several races.

8 minutes ago, OneKelvin said:

Nah. But I did root for the humans in Avatar. 

And you sir, are rooting for the demons in Malifaux. It's crazy world ain't it? 



It ain't bad to root for the bad guys, but don't get it twisted when you do. 

Yeah, so there's no shame in backing the invading soul-stealing world-looters.

I mean, some people just gotta root for the Empire

4 minutes ago, OneKelvin said:

Welp...

If I were a nine-foot tall purple deamon that ate children and cast my shadow through the breath to give humans nightmares, I would definitely vote for you! 

Yeah.. may want to read the lore a bit better. You're welcome to your opinion on who is in the right here.. but I suppose you rooted for the aliens in Independence Day, then?

I love my outlaws and bandits... but if you like sneaky and flexible, yeah, you're best off picking up the Viks and Vanessa as a one-off and going Neverborn.

I have (now!) seven - actually, I just realized 8 -Masters across four (five) factions - Lilith, Pandora, Lynch, Titania, Rasputina, Parker Barrows, and Nicodem / Amelia Bathory, and my arrived-today Titania box had Doc Dufresne in it so I'll be buying McMourning's box in the future. Of those Factions, I consider myself a "Neverrectionist" - A Neverborn / Resser player where Faction loyalties are concerned. I'll probablypick up Daw and Tara at some point, but Parker was a gods-send for me because I actually liked a lot of one-off Outcast models more than anyof the Masters until the Old West outlaw arrived to provide a cowboy Master. Rasputina is an even narrower case - the only other Arcanist I have any true interest in is Marcus, and he's not a high priority; both of them are their own sub-factions as well. With the Ressers, I decently like most of them, but its more that Nicodem wants almost the entire Faction and that I really have come to enjoy Nicodem / Amelia.

If you like multiple Masters in a Faction, go with that Faction and ala-carte the Masters you like individually.

So, let's break this down!

After centuries or more of horrible war and enslavement, the battered survivors of the world pay an awful price to earn their freedom, but in the end it's rather Pyrrhic - the world's destroyed mostly, death has come, the golden age has fallen, and their own bodies have been warped by the magical fallout. But you won. You have peace, and you stay away from the old ruins of you previous life, fearful of waking old demons and very likely, not wishing to deal with the pain of what you lost to win the right to live in peace in this post-apocalyptic hell that was once golden and beautiful.

Then one day, minding your own business, you encounter an alien thing that looks remarkably like you once did. Then more. They are ransacking those abandoned ruins for their power, they're not there a day before they start killing each other over these relics.. and then more come, in droves, through this hole in reality they tore open to invade your world. They've sucked the magic out of their own, blown themselves up out of greed, and start stealing land and taking it for themselves. Worse, some of them start experimenting with the forbidden arts born of the Grave Spirit, and others start poking at the prisons of those ancient gods who enslaved you.

You hate to do it but there's only one solution - you cut off their hole in reality and put them down before they wake up something they can't put down.

Then, a century later, the hole opens again. The invaders return - only this time they're armed heavily, and lead by a group of fascist, imperialist slavers who pay for your hides as proof of death, work their own people in conditions of bondage and worse to rival the Tyrants' excesses, clamp down on those with abilities in their number as the Tyrants did....

Then others rebel against them.. but are violent criminals as much in it for profit as the 'lawmen'. Then more of them begin to build kingdoms on the backs of necromancy, then they show the gremlins whoa re psychotically violent and always hungry how to use weapons so they are no longer being held in check by the predation of their rival predators enough to counteract their explosive birth rates, Then another band of rebels who are violent, magical criminals come in, through another reality hole and start setting up for more invasions...

So, who wants to roll over and die to let these alien invaders rape our world that we paid so desperate a cost to defend once before? Show of Hands! *Crickets*

Show of hands, who wants to repel this invasion and drive these world-ravishing would-be Tyrants back to their own world before they doom both? *HUZZAH!*

Humanity are the villains of Malifaux, on the organizational level. The Guild are imperialistic, slaving, soul-selling fascists. The Arcanists and the Thunders may look out for the common man but are, at the management level, driven by the same greed. The Resurrectionists mostly want to rule Malifaux with dark magic.

Every Faction, even the Guild, has its heroic figures. Actually, a lot of the Guild Masters are actually genuinely heroic - Lady Justice, Perdita, even Sonnia - hell, SOnnia especially is a very nuanced protagonist who is sacrificing her own reputation and worse for the greater good as she sees it. But taken collectively, and at the leadership level, there really are no 'good guys' in the setting on the human side. And while the Neverborn are the 'good guys', they're not particularly nice or moral either, at least to the alien invaders.

Perdita is rather beginner-friendly, for what that's worth.

As for Ophelia, my regular opponent plays Gremlins but doesn't own her. But he swears by Burt Jebsen and Gracie, and one does not play Gremlins without having Slop Haulers available.

6 hours ago, The_Wretch said:

Another huge thanks for all the advice guys. We're still deciding at this point still, but she doesn't seem too interested in Rasputina (Doesn't really like her models). I think she's leaning towards Titania, Kirai, Yan Lo, Pandora, Misaki even though some of these (Kirai) don't have great starter boxes or don't fit her preferred playstyle exactly. She likes the Neverborn faction as a whole, it seems, but is concerned that if she gets into it, she won't like it if they're all hit-and-run type players.

Well, not all.

Titania is, to my understanding, fairly tanky and more a blocker for her crew than a hit-and-run type, and if you're willing to buy Lynch's box to get them there's no denying the hateful resilience of the Illuminated.

Pandora can also play a 'control' game, though to my experience her box itself is pretty fragile - and I don't rate Candy much outside a Control playstyle - the suit for her heal not being baked in hurts. I do like Kade, however.

6 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

What you might do is go over the Masters and their backstories on the Malifaux Masters web page and see which ones grab her - I know my fiance didn't want to play Malifaux at all until I talked about the Dreamer...

That said, Rasputina has several different advantages:

1) She herself is very easy to pilot as a ranged beater that can use any unengaged Frozen Heart model within 10" as an arc node (to use a WM/H term).

2) Her theme is VERY strong - with Ice Dancers to move around the table, a player can accomplish almost any set of scheme and strategy with just Frozen Heart models, and Frozen Heart straight ignores Horror which a lot of models rely on for defense.

3) Her storyline is that she came to Malifaux as a prisoner, made a deal with a god of winter for power, and has since given that god the middle finger and told him who's boss - and it's HER. Who WOULDN'T like that story?

4) A lot of her theme models (Silent Ones, Acolytes, Ice Dancer, Snow Storm) are really strong for Arcanists generally, making her a good starting place.

Downsides:

1) The Ice Golem in the box is a "toss in the bits bin, don't bother putting it together" piece... one of the very few like that in Malifaux. He's just too slow and dies too fast.

2) She's very predictable and her crew in general is very slow - if you kill the Ice Dancers she struggles to do any serious Interact or Scheme Marker based Schemes.

3) Models with high WP or that have strong anti-Ca stuff (such as Sonnia) can be a hard counter.

 

 

1) I'd not say he's that useless. Definitely very niche, however.

2) SnowStorm can also really help with the mobility.

That said, care of TTB, we know the Guild does sell reproductions of 17th century firearms.

I can help a little bit here - I play Ressurrectionists (Well, Nicodem but he is the resilient/tanky Resser master) and my nephew/most frequent opponent is a Gremlin player.

Nicodem is himself pretty damned tough for an old guy, but especialy because he is usually surrounded by a small horde of replenishing undead. I like him especially as he can start with a very elite list and then summon in runners and fighters to pad up his activation count - which don't even come in Slow, if done right! He also does a lot beyond summoning - group healing his minions,slows and fasts. He comes with Mortimer who is pricey but can do a lot, can provide corpses, and has a surprisingly good melee attack (Melee 7!) and enough resilience to make him a pretty decent bodyguard with it for Nico, and Punk Zombies who are just remarkably solid melee hitters as summons and not unfairly-costed for hiring. And yes, Ressers are a bit slower on average but they're terribly resilient and numerous,plus they replenish - in one game I summoned in a Punk Zombie who died four times and kept coming back.

As for Gremlins, they're another 'horde' typically, but the exact opposite of the Deadboys. They're generally quick but fragile, especially as many of them can hurt themselves for extra AP - or hurt themselves for more damage, or... you get the idea, I trust? They're also fairly random and require a lot of adaption to the stupid (but funny!) things they'll do.

The Guild (another nephew plays them) are an elite, shooting-focused bunch on average. At least his Ortegas are.

6 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

Rasputina is almost as fragile as Sonnia when someone attacks her at last, isn't she? Well, I suppose they're all resilient in different ways, those masters with low defense stats. Sonnia will stop casting attacks cold with negative flips, and then punish the caster with a counter-attack. Rasputina takes the hit and then freezes the melee attacker, stopping them from taking any further actions. Hoffman takes the blow from the armor-ignoring weapon, then points out the technicality that it isn't his own armor precisely but a defensive trigger, and ignores however many points of damage regardless. And so on.

It's been my (limited) experience that while Raspy is not physically robust, she has a lot of circumstantial resilience. She's usually toward the back ranks of the Crew, possibly behind blocking cover (blast at a right angle!), with Snowstorm screwing with engage attempts and shooting attacks and a decent amount of total healing going on from Snow's self-heal and Silent Ones' efforts. Factor in Acolytes' slowing to reduce attack-fueling AP....

How about Rasputina?

Raspy is not too hard to pick up, does a lot of nuking (HotS-wise, Jaina plays a bit like her), has also the Silent Ones and Snow Storm for a tough female backbone, supplement with Acolytes.

Arcanists let you spread into Thunders too, care of Mei Feng - though I know nearly nothing of how she works besides jumping around and venting steam.

But with Silent One heals, Snow yanking her out of trouble, and her ability to hold back and blast, Raspy is perhaps surprisingly survivable. Plus ice walls, using the Black Joker as Red, and immunity to Horror and Paralyze in general.

If she didn't care for fragile and hit-and-run, Neverborn are probably a bad idea.

I was sold right away by aesthetics alone. But then I heard how they operate and fell even more in love.

Overall they're just a grand-slam for me on all cylinders.

It broke my heart to find out my beloved "FN-S-LGS" didn't carry Malifaux. Truly did, especially asmost of the other gaming bits I dip into either no longer really sell through local shops (Onyx Path/WoD), or are sort of now supplanted by Malifaux (board games).

If I could get my minis at Rusty's I would, but I can't.

Still, hope this helps the game and the other retailers, but it does hurt the "Sales" value overall and make the special edition figures harder to get at...

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I only own the one, but I love my Iconic deck.

1 minute ago, Gnomezilla said:

That's certainly a popular explanation here, at which point I interrupt that someone needs to be the grown-up in the room that is Malifaux, at which point my opponent has often had to point out that I am not playing any sort of moral leading light. (Have to stop having McMourning out on the table for these days, but then, if that wasn't my mood I wouldn't've interrupted in the first place.)

Since the beginning the Guild has been defined by what its masters stand against. It's the dual faction masters, perversely, who had a positive principle to fight for. Power! Loot! Raw materials (and the opportunity to flash a shiny official badge of officialdom)! I'm not sure yet whether our new naive Nellie will be flavored 'for' or 'against', although her playstyle focus on denial is suggesting the latter. Then again, given the passionate negative reactions when she was revealed, maybe nobody should be trying to sell her on fluff alone to a group that cares about gameplay. I don't know. There seem to be plenty enough happy players of non Guild masters who elicit negative fluff reactions. Nellie: in fluff and mechanics, dedicated to proving your opponent is wrong. Can we sell that?

Line between 'grown up' and 'parental abuse' and the Guild overstepped it..about fifteen minutes after taking control

I do sort of like Nellie. Well,okay, more that I like Phiona. I love that model, just from the visual. And honestly,I classify the Ortegas ad Perdita as 'good guys' - sure, the Neverborn have a right to be pissed at these invaders, but though I'm pro-'Faux in the Earth-Malifaux conflict, even I can admit the 'Born are, collectively, not good people and can't fault the Ortegas for trying to protect the poor souls the Guild shipped in in large part unwillingly. And though the Witch-Hunters are filth of the highest order, I still like Sonnia and Samael as characters in the fluff and f I were to pick up a Guild master, it'd probably be Miss Criid. She admits she does awful things, that she'll never be considered a heroine of the people for her services and sacrifices, and is okay with that. I dig her, fluff-wise, and she and Sam are highly entertaining to read as they banter with one another.  

19 minutes ago, JDAntoine said:

Exact, too many different individuals and it becomes difficult to identify.

This is totally different from being underpowered but could explain as to why players dont stick with Guild forever.

Well, you may have a point. A lot of varying hooks and aspects, coupled with the fact that they are sort of 'vanilla' in a game with some very gonzo factions - play a bunch of cops and soldiers,or play.. a Jack-the-Joker with undead hookers/ an army of nightmares lead by a dreaming Earth childand its horrible 'pet' Tyrant / An ice witch and her cannibal cult and snow/ice monsters/etc. .. and the list keeps going on... then take the fact into account that even 'badass normal humans' has competition with the 'Korps - dieselpunk WW1-esque badass mercenaries with specialized roles and mages, or the Barrows Gang -outlaws are cool, and they have the Old West vibe and the 'plan the Heist, adapt on the fly' sort of cool cred.. or badass chicks with swords in stripperific outfits... or badass, steampunk miners representing a worker's rebellion in various, very-compatible forms....

Then factor in..honestly, the Guild are, frankly, the bad guys. Slavery, imperilaism, plutocratic corruption, mage-hunting and exploiting... they're evil, authoritarian scum of the highest order, which is a bit of a thematic turn-off for some.. and for those who enjoy being the bad guy? They're a very 'mundane' sort of evil compared to.. well, nearly every other faction of 'bad guys'.

2 hours ago, JDAntoine said:

In retrospect it's very likely that at a given point the re-design of Lucius mend something else had to be changed aswell. Guild has recieved the most massive changes this edition likely due to how at the last point it was very much painted into a particular corner. I think all pieces that where directly changed remain totally viable. I do believe that the Death Marshal should have recieved a small bump in responce to Papa Box not being very interesting for him anymore and the transporting of Papa was an excellent and thus competative option.

As a Guild player I don't believe we are boring but I can understand as to why others would think this to be the case. Afterall Guild is likely the most vanilla flavoured of factions? 
No real scary monsters, no real scary machines, undead or demons? In any case my prime reason to pick Guild had much more to do with the symbol as anything else and I happened to stick with them basically...

What I do think is also the case is that most of the time we have to rely on Austringers to do the job well. There are no real 6 Scrip comparables anymore and those are the ones we are usually looking for. This is not to say we are an underpowered faction but this is to say that I do feel our competative choices arn't massive and in certain cases even exclusively competative to a single Master.

Top down, small opinion on all our models

Lady J - Cool design but M1E had a cooler model for her, in terms of Masters she doesn't really scare anyone as a 'beater Master'
Sonnia - Our Queen essentially, awesome but also very 'unique' to our faction. Unlike Rasputina we don't have a very flavourful competative theme open for her. Thralls certainly help...
Perdita - Love her design but also feels a bit like an odd one out in our faction  
McMourning - Practically more Resser as Guild, missed option to add Guild interactions with him by adding more 'Guild Coroner'
Hoffman - Practically more Arcanist as Guld, might recieve more robots
Lucius - Confirmed Neverborn in disguise
McCabe - Confirmed TT in disguise
Nellie - Love her design but is something totally 'new'

So in general I would say that Lady J and Nellie feel the most fitting to Guild and Dita and Sonnia most certainly are Guild aswell but in general the faction's identity is very mixed. Now this is certainly true for more factions but it also means that even within the Guild there are splinters who feel connected with something. Some Guild players for example don't even like Sonnia or Perdita....

I believe that the massive mix of characters generally removes some of the faction identity and because of that not too many players actually indentify with the faction, where with others you can for:
- Neverborn are neverborn, demons and 'monsters'
- Ressurectionists are ressurectionists, necromancers and undead
- Arcanists are arcanists, magic users and machines
- Gremlins are gremlins, pigs and funstuff
- Outcasts are a mixed bag of outlaws, casts and work for money
- Ten Thunders are ninja's, samurai and oni

So what is Guild? "anti of the above"? "The law"? I honestly can't really specifically say... 
 

Not a Guild player, here (though I've assembled and painted a few as a nephew of mine does, and because of him and my love of all things Western, I'm a fan of the Ortegas), but for what it's worth when describing the game I usually go with 'Evil, Fascistic  Imperialist Cowboy-Mages and Aristocrats, with a Few Decent Souls Working to Actually Do Good for the Common People."

Granted, that doesn't really fit onto a business card...

Or, less kindly 'The Rulers of Malifaux who are so hopelessly compromised by every other faction it's almost comical.' You know, the coroner they turned into a Ressurrectionist, the undertaker who is a leading Resurrectionist, the Thunders, Lucius... there's probably two gremlins in an overcoat in charge of an outpost near the Bayou..