Flippin' Wyrd Matt

So having just looked at the cards again to see if I can shake lose some ideas. 

I would say we are right about them being to expensive as a set there restrain ability is basically unusable on most of them except grimwell because of there short melee distance.

Nurse heartsbane is by far the worst.

Straight jacket seems good but because it has to be used so within 2 inch of a asylum model to get any real effect and most of the asylum models have no engagement range to speak of they can't really take advantage of the trigger to attack. On the masks

I would say hey electroshock machine needs to be ML range 1 and proberly either hand out staggered on the attack or have a built in mask. 

Orderlys need a different attack all together I would say the range is to small the damage is wonky for a ML attack unless u are a dog? Infect has no place on the card the asylum models don't use it guild really don't use it and as a condition unless you can stack it, it has very little impact I find. Also out of all the models surely orderlys should have a ability to move models around and nurse heartsbane should do the healing. Would give the orderlys some worth as a movement peice as well. They could bring the Doctors Patients (Victims) to him.

I would say grimwell is the only peice yet again that may see play if you want a versatile beater but most key words except Nellie have that but even he as are new resident doctor dose not really fill that role. If he is are new killer doctor can we not make him that as his role big scary doctor the reason no one wants to go the asylum?

I would say he could be the punch in the asylum and let the others be the tech. That would be a fun team then. Triggers like "the doctor will see you now" and "Take 2 Twice a day"

After all it is a starter set as well and currently any guild player that starts with these models will struggle to use them in a game let alone have fun with them I believe.

I think the issue is that they don't need more models in the key word but they either need to be solid stand alone models, cheaper to take as a contingent in a crew or filtered into a keyword in the faction.. 

i do like some of the suggested changes above thought it may make them tempting to take but that they do has to be worth you stepping away from faction keyword abilities and synergy of crews. so that would involve them being a worth while investment as a unit almost. 

So what do we think would make the most sense to make them more viable as takes because I don't want another edition to go by with these guys sat at the bottom of my case.

I have been wracking my brain and I don't know what it is about them but they don't fit for me. Shame they did not get filtered into another key word like some of the other story box's. 

They used to be witch hunters what happened there? I am not saying I want them in Sonnias crew but I think they would see more play if they was part of a key word. Had a strong mechanic. But they do feel like a heavy investment for a meh mechanic 

So having been trying to look at models that don't seem to have changed much since the start of the whole beta, and asylum models seem to be the same for the most part. Is this because they are good or that they just have not seen play? 

I will be trying them out in a few crews his week but at first glance I'm not sure when you would take these models out of keyword. I mean Grimwell seems to be the same as he has ever been and the call for orderly to be scheme runners is there but they played these roles in second edition and I did not really see them ever. 

And Heartsbane needs a heavy asylum investment from what I can tell. 

I think we a opertunity to maybe give these models a new lease of life and maybe make them a solid pick for a style of play or a good choice for a strat and scheme pool. 

How have people found them or are we just over looking them to test other stuff? 

So with summoning being OPT on alot of masters should Sonnias scorched Soul be changed?

Should it either have the burning cap removed and changed to OPT to make it consistent. 

Or another idea you leave scorched Soul the way it is but change it to have a built in trigger that is OPT after killing a model with this ability summon the model following the same restrictions it already has? Which means her Damage won't take a hit but offer balance. 

Feel like this will encourage use of more of her cards while offering balance to her summoning. Won't take anything away as far as I can tell but will bring her in line with the rest of the game and summoning? 

Thoughts?

Why did we need queegs ability changed to have the rider of less damage near a scheme marker? This was changed to stop crews getting fast so easy was it not? 

His push for all friendly guard minion models is already pushing the edge of very good in to to much. And he is a solid hire why was this changed called for?

Guard I feel need to settle, because we are changing things that I think are not really addressing the issues more of a snap decision to try and fix some less useful models. 

Issues like Hoffman's crew maybe to expensive?

The guard patrol models not having a place?

The Asylum models proberly never being taken as versatile takes? 

Should Scorched soul be OPT on sonnia like the other summoners maybe make the summon a trigger on it for OPT if we are worried about her damage dropping? 

Just seems like as a faction we have other models to balance instead of trying to make other models over the top in crews.

So they changed Dashals summoning to summon Multiple models. 

This won't survive play test in my opinion. Not sure throwing more of the same model at the situation cures the issue of the bad model. 

Would it have been so hard to adress the models instead of this as the option taken? 

Not sure why frontiersmen are taking hits so hard here as I have played loads of games with bass and yes they are good but they never broke  a game but u are talking about nerfing a model in a crew that has a limited hire pool as it is. 

And I'm seeing alot of comparison to riflemen going on but this model has less wounds and can't ignore friendly fire like they do they run difirent roles in my eyes.

I have to disagree with the call to change them as they have been that cost this whole time because they play that part for bass otherwise his model count will fall under the what I would say is the 3rd edition norm. 

Nerfing and buffing models in a Bubble with out consideration to the wider crew and faction is what caused busted combos and dead masters in M2E

1 minute ago, trikk said:

Its not useless. It gives slow! 😜

Yes. I defnitely agree he has too many limitations on his summoning and I don't really know why. There was an argument, that multi-model summoning could be too strong with Seize Me, but now its gone.

i would agree that now it has gone i cant see it doing anymore harm. 

when seize them was still on his card i could see why that would be abusive, but we have lost that now and the crew has taken a step back in damage already with models losing crit strike stats being knocked down or the damage spreads be lowered it has been getting progressively harder to do anything.

41 minutes ago, trikk said:

You only summon an Executioner if you have a 5+ of masks and a 13. If you can do it, congrats, I didn't get one in my game and Its not really that easy compared to any-other-summoner-that-summons-a-9SS-model.

so maybe the issue is remove the scheme marker requirement or let the dispatcher have a built in mask. you would probably have to lose the card draw if you did that though as it would be a free card every turn and u may as well just have arcane reservoir 

I will agree that the upgrade is just useless I have never ever used the ability in the 10+ games i have had with Dashal 

I would say that to make them viable in a crew there defense needs to go up or the guard need armour back really just currently I'm puting them on to have no real effect on the game because there attack stat is low and die because they have no defense to speak of.

Again summoning multiple models is not needed both I do see the frustration with his summoning being harder but I have worked around it and it works but I feel like there should be a reason to want to hire more of these guard patrols and dogs and maybe make it worth it to just summon the executioner turn 1 as he can easily get a enemy scheme marker every turn. 

His summoning is fine the way it is. Just these models that are not worth the card they will be printed on 

I think as it is it needs to be tested hard! I will be running it through the flippin Wyrd mill this week.

But I agree that I think if this is how it will stay worded then I am not sure that the triggers for pass tokens or the focus synergies make any sense anymore. 

I really hope that we can get this balanced out as the family keep taking the hits right now.

My original point is not that dashal should be able to summon multiple of these modelling is that they need to be reworked to make them have a place in the crew a reason to hire or summon them. 

As my rezer friend @Flippin' Wyrd Jamie pointed out he has felt the pinch of this with Gaki. In kirai but that crew has other ways of brining them to the table with out kirai summoning them. So they still see play. Some of the models create them when they kill a model.

We are not fortunate enough to have such a handy trigger. So I would just like to see them get changed to get play or maybe a incidental summon some how. Other wise these models will never get use ever. 

4 minutes ago, Flippin' Wyrd Jamie said:

Dashel does not need the ability to bring in multiple models dude! Cheap summons are hard to justify at once per turn agreed. I feel the same with Kirai. It doesn't mean the models are necessarily bad, just better value to summon the best model you can.

Cheaper models in the age of pass tokens are actually less appealing across the board I'm finding 

It was just a idea because I am failing to see why u would ever have these models summoned or hired like you said not seeing why you would ever summon these cheap models for any summoner.

I don't need him to be able to summon multiple models just want some value to these guard models 

So I have played dashal 3 times this week and in all my games I just can't see a point to taking guild hounds or guard patrol. 

I find that the dogs stats are just not worth hiring as scheme runners even if they are cheap it feels like they benefit my opponent more by me having more models then then and giving them a pass token. And they drop so easy I just can't see the point.

I have a similar opinion for guard patrol who i feel lost some ability to survive losing armour and no longer benefiting from other guard models. They are just not worth hiring and I can't see why u would summon them either. 

If dashal had the opertunity to try and bring multiple of these models out with his summon u may see them, but I am not even convinced even then.

How has everyone found them? Anyone found a use yet or are they just dead models? 

My only issue I have with this ability is that it's costing cards out of your hand to do. Should it not also give u the option to use pass tokens as well as atleast they have a chance to generate them but no real card draw?

I found it makes sanction spellcasters worth the stones having attuned in the crew

So in my experince with play testing him he felt a little underwhelming if I am honest. I feel he lost alot of his flavour and in the games I played spent the entire time going "we need more power" and "oh crap another bit fell off the peacekeeper get my welding touch out again"

The models around him are cool and I can see what they are ment for, but they cost so much. I thought hunters were to expensive last edition for 7 and I don't think they do much more for 8 now so the price points off I would say.

All in all I will try him again but he lacks alot of fun for me as he just heals constructs really in games I have played.

So please people play test Hoffman and see what you think! 

I have tried the mercs and came to the same conclusion that the guild models our just more useful then the mercs.

LLC going to 1 was a very good change there is now a real choice of what upgrades to take on your henchman, and I settled on LLC as it just makes thoes beaters hang on in there so much longer when used with stones 

Hey!

My list for Haul of eggs was:

Nellie - Misleading Headlines, Delegation, Guild Funds

Francisco Ortega - Wade in, Lead Lined Coat

Phiona Gage - Transparency, Lead lined Coat

Executioner - Ready to work

Thaliana Quella

2x Guild Guard 

Printing press

The guild guard don,t really do much but they our activation's and they can drop markers. note sure there is a better choice for 3 stones, and as a rule I don't like to drop below 8 Activation's.

Just got a Ticket! 

Thanks - Matt Lewin

Just got my ticket! cant wait!

See you all there

Matt Lewin

Just Got My Ticket! Cant wait!

Thanks - Matt Lewin

Hey

Just got a ticket, cant wait to play some faux!

Thanks  - Matt Lewin