whodares

On 24-4-2017 at 5:27 AM, InvokeChaos said:

Summoned Peasant - Sacrifice to give Shen a 0 to gain burning and poison (or defensive if needed)

I really liked your post, but I do have to critique this one point in it. Your summoned peasant starts with Slow and therefore can't use his (2) action to sacrifice for Shenlong. I'm guessing you made a slight mistake between this one and the hired one?

Second question: on your anti-neverborn list, how do you get around the Neverborn Emissary's Hazardous Terrain? Try and get lucky with blast markers or is there something I'm missing? I've played Extraction vs that Emissary and it was just pure hell on getting any points from it. My opponent placed it 2" deep in my territory, so I was forced out of a lot of zone for that Strategy. Also didn't help he was playing Titania and he could just bunch up everything around it.

9 hours ago, saynoir said:

I haven't had a chance to play my Asami crew yet. But this is want I'm thinking of trying first.

• Dawn Serpent will be playing second "Enforcer" 
• Shadow Effigy to Remember the Mission on summoned Oni and then Accomplice them
• Sue to help get card draw with Hurt

To be honest, i'm not a big fan of your list. I prefer to go kamaitachi + terracotta warrior for the heal on Asami which also gives push and card draw. It also allows Asami to be even more flexible as you can swap upgrades you're not using. Running behind a bit in VP? Switch to the other upgrade and summon a free Oni at VP difference +3. Need more damage? Grasping Strands etcetc

I usually take at least 1 Brother with me because he's just the best scheme-protecting model we have BY FAR. hard to take down with defense 6 (7 if defensive) and no scheme marker discard within 5".

I'll take a look at the effigy. Remember the mission looks a lot better in GG17 than it used to do, so I might start taking the little guy with me.

10 hours ago, Patzer said:

Hand destruction may be an underrated side of asami. Like Misaki she might get a lot of milage out of models who forces discards. 

Which is true and one of the main reasons why Bettari works so well with her. If she can get in 1 attack, that's instant 6 damage on your model. The opponents I've faced always cheated on Bettari when they could to keep her damage contained. Nothing beats blowing up a single model in 1 attack and healing to full health

I might try and play Asami a bit more front-line soon, but my style is and remains to play her mid-line where almost nothing can touch her and just poop out Yokai with + to the charge attack.

41 minutes ago, Nikodemus said:

Asami can only summon Oni minions. So no Yasunori. Dreamer can do his thing with Teddy because Dreamer explicitly gets to summon enforcers as well.

Thank you for the clarification. I'm glad I wrote "I think" on it as I wasn't completely sure about it.

This makes Tannen even worse for Asami imo as there is nothing special about him. Summoning a Yokai on a 7 with his aura isn't worth the soulstone cost to a defensive (master) style player such as myself.

2 hours ago, Patzer said:

snip

My absolute core with Asami's crew would be Kamaitachi and Terracotta Warriors. the combo with the card draw, heal and push is vital in my playstyle. Since Asami takes damage from charging off of her ability, you can heal 2 charges per turn by swapping an upgrade.

Tengu can be summoned as a last-ditch effort for his scheme marker clearing. For other things I find Yokai to be superior.

I would only summon Jorogumo is I can get 2+ Flicker on him and he stays until the end of the game. Imo the 13 is otherwise better used in blowing stuff up with Bettari or keeping Bettari safe. My main summon is Yokai because they are just so magnificent in what they do. You should also keep in mind I'm an advocate of Jorogumo being a good summon. 

The main problem with Jorogumo is that he only has ml5, which is thesame as Yokai. His triggers are even worse than Yokai as they require a specific suit and only give + flip to the damage in comparison to ++ from Yokai. Yokai also has + flip on charge attacks which Jorogumo doesn't have.

The only reason I would summon a Jorogumo is to keep opponents occupied or to block LoS. For all the rest a Yokai is superior.

I'm not completely sold on the Emissary yet. For about thesame price I can get Yasunori who can operate alone and is a true powerhouse. Whenever I field yasunori, my opponent is forced to use his big bad monster OR multiple monsters on it to keep it occupied. This either gives me activation control or lets Bettari go even more crazy due to lower threat against her. In my last game my Bettari shredded 3 models before finally dieing. This was only possible because Yasunori tied up (big) Bad JuJu and the rest of the damage was manageable for her to survive through the turn.

I see you have also listed Tannen in your fillers. I'm not really a fan of him in this crew as he doesn't really allow any crazy things the way he allows them for The Dreamer. I think we can summon a Yasunori if we Red Joker (14) it while in Tannen's aura, but I'm not completely sure about that. As you can already guess, chances of that happening are a lot lower than Dreamer summoning Teddy. At least Dreamer can get 2 cards to do the trick vs the 1 card Asami uses. Since I also play Asami back more and go on offense with Yokai, enemy models barely ever get in range to do something tannen can help with. Then again, if you play her very agressivelly YMMV.

1 hour ago, newsun said:

The charge debuff is the reason for that upgrade and it has saved so many models, that is one upgrade I'd be hard not to take. Don't think I've pulled off the reaching part.

I think 7 stones is crucial for her or any summoner.

It seems we have a different playstyle as I never let asami get within charge range of enemy models. The only way people are able to charge her or within 4" of her is if I allow them or they have something like Bettari (no LoS, ignore terrain).

After turn 2 I swapped it over for A Fate Of Mortals for the card draw on killing, which is pretty insane considering Bettari can blow up a model per turn.

Imo Bettari is also fairly safe in an Asami crew. I could overextend fairly hard as long as I still had Asami to activate. Bettari getting targetted? Summon a Yokai and place her into safety.

I did notice summoners are my preferred playstyle (RIP wallet), so I'll play some more asami for now. After that I'm probably switching to The Dreamer to see just how different their playstyle is. I must admit Asami felt like summoning Yokai and just throwing them into the enemy for free scheme markers at the end of the turn.

I really like to use Yu with Shenlong as they are basicly made for eachother. Swapping upgrades, free focus, ...

I usually position both of them and a peasant close to a sniper. I can use Shenlong's ability (peasant take a 1 interact action) to summon my second, albeit slow, peasant for free. Then I let that slow peasant go first and give my archer focus. Because my archer is close to Yu and Shenlong, I can doa  focusshed shot (1AP), focus again (0AP due to Shenlong) and do a second long range focused shot. Both these shots get +1 duel total due to being a focus-using shot within Yu's bubble effect. Let me tell you that 2x a sh6 from 28" with double + to attack flip (1+ built in, 1+ from focus)usually nets you a neutral flip every time. If needed you can go crazy first turn and cheat twice on damage. If you target an enforcer that way, you might even just blow it up first turn.

So basicly you just blew up an enforcer first turn without him really being able to do something about it, except if your hand is really bad and you have no high cards to cheat. I'd say that could be a game-winning play just like that.

Now, about some more models that I like to take.

Probably MVP in about every single game I played: Ten Thunder Brothers. The fact that they can get 7 defense with + flip from defensive makes them extremely hard to take down. I've had on hold up Bad Juju going for a Frenzy (3 attacks) and not taking a single damage point due to having 7 Defense. I will admit I had a 13 tome in my had that I dropped on his first attack, so I got my defensive for free.

Terracotta Warriors: I've only used these once so far, but I really liked them. If you take a model that goes deep into enemy territory (Ohaguro Bettari for example), you can get a free get-out-of-jail card as you can ignore an attack at the cost of a card. This saved my models multiple times and allowed me to go in for some kills I shouldn't have been able to take.

Yasunori: Played this guy together with the Terracotta Warriors. He didn't do much for me that 1 game, except keeping some big models occupied and taking over a big part of the map due to his insane 12" engagement range. I will admit his damage potential is really, really high if you have the right cards in your hand. if you hit every attack, you get 12 damage minimum and 20 damage maximum. The thing about that is that those are 4 attacks and you need to get fairly lucky to hit all 4. I usually activated him fairly late into the turn, so your opponent has less answers to any high cards you still have. I did play him in an Asami Crew, so he could use a charge as a 1 AP action.

These are basicly models that I almost always consider taking in any crew I play. I used to be a Jakob Lynch player, but I've been converted to an Asami player after using her just once. I started out with SHenlong, but had very little success with him. Maybe I shouldn't have started as a new wargaming player with the most difficult master in the faction.

After losing several times pretty hard, I noticed that Shenlong isn't my cup of tea as a master. I wanted something with crew synergy and WAAAAYYYY more agression on it. I swapped over to Yan Lo, but his style didn't really fit me either. The fact that my opponents keep using Ca-based masters also doesn't help the poor Lo as that is his only real weakness. After that I went for Lynch and never really looked back. The sheer amount of agression and threat that Lynch + Huggy bring is amazing. I coupled them with Yu and blew up a model first turn if it stood within 6" of the centerline. After some fun games with him, I went back to Yan Lo, but that just further proved howmuch I liked Lynch. Then I tried out Asami and had even more fun. The downside for my prefered master type seems to be that they are summoners and thus rather expensive to play.

The moral of my story here? Don't try to force yourself on a master. Play what you really like to play and almost any master can be succesful. Focus more on having fun and experience what each master's strengths and weaknesses are. If you're looking for a Jack-of-all-trades master type, you can check out Asami. She also has a lot of answers to whatever situation arises.

You have to declare which Faction you will be using and you can only hire from that Faction.

Some masters do have a characteristic that let's them hire from outside of their faction: ex Lynch and his Darkened models.

Not all darkened are Ten Thunders, but you can hire 4 Darkened from other factions in your crew for no extra cost.

23 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

Yokai - depends which interact action you want to use. If you want to drop a scheme marker then you cannot be engaged when this happens (but you will place 3" from lowering flicker first so most of the time you can escape engagement)  but the VP schemes which require interactions with a model can be done while engaged. Note you can't interact the turn you summon a Yokai.

18 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

Small rulebook page 39:

"A model may not declare this[=Interact] Action if it is engaged, unless the Interact Action targets an enemy model."

I don't have Yokai card but if it says you do an Interact Action then all limitations of interact actions apply.

Just a question about this: Don't I get the 3" place after I declare which interact action and not before?

(0) Corrupting Essence (Ca 5 / TN: 10): Lower this model's Flicker Condition by 1.
Then, if this model is still in play, it may take a (1) Interact Action.

Ephemeral Warriors: After the value of the Poison or Flicker Condition on this model is lowered, if this model is still in play, this model
may be placed within 3", not in terrain, after completing the current Action. (If the Condition is ended or removed without lowering the value,
this Ability does not come into play).

This looks like I first have to remove + declare which interact to complete my 0 action.

Do tell me if I'm wrong here, because it would be very interesting for me to know how these wordings should be read.

My crew yesterday fielded both Bettari and Yasunori, but no Yu/Emissary. I have to say Bettari (and the Yokai) get some crazy mobility thanks to Asami. I had 4 soulstones that game, but I feel like I really need more than that to keep up my sommoning engine with Asami. Bettari with Eat Your Fill can be disgustingly good though. Get nearly killed, Asami summons a Yokai behind LoS-blocking terrain and you place Bettari completely safe. Next round you can go HAM, kill something and get Bettari back to full.

I was kind of skeptical about the Terracotta/Kamaitachi, but that combo was so good. It kept Asami constantly on full health with free push AND a card draw.

Something I did notice is that my Yokai never survived 2 turns. I summoned them and they usually died thesame turn as I threw them onto my enemy and burned at least 1 Flicker. End of turn I lost the second Flicker which then sacrificed it. Free scheme marker though

My MVP upgrade was either A Taste For Flesh on Bettari or The Fate Of Mortals on Asami. I drew 3 cards from AFOM, which thinned the bad ones from my deck. Bettari survived and went crazy thanks to ATFF.

My worst upgrade was Grasping Strands because I only managed to use the charge portion once and never the Reaching Tendrils thing. At least I was able to swap between upgrades a bit.

My takeaway from my last game: more soulstones. Getting 7 might not even be overkill on her.

25 minutes ago, Kogan Style said:

Yokai - depends which interact action you want to use. If you want to drop a scheme marker then you cannot be engaged when this happens (but you will place 3" from lowering flicker first so most of the time you can escape engagement)  but the VP schemes which require interactions with a model can be done while engaged. Note you can't interact the turn you summon a Yokai.

The options for upgrade swapping is many and varied! For example you could finish Asami's activation while she has Nefarious Pact (so she draws a card) and then swap it to Heavenly Design (if she doesnt have it already) so that Oni that flicker out at the end of the turn drop a scheme marker, or Fate of Mortals so that Oni minions that kill other models allow you to draw another card (This is also rare 1 so you can't have 2 copies of this on the board).  Holding Feigned Weakness to acquire some free summons could be useful, then when the VP score is tied you can swap it for Recalled Training so Asami can go to town on the remaining models for the final turn. It really grants flexibility to an already flexible master.

Thanks for this. I already forgot summoned models can't interact first turn. This is my first "real" summoner I'm playing, so I'm going to have to reread some rules now.

Your upgrade swapping is so much better than what I had in mind with switching to Recalled training all the time. It really shows how great the differences in mindset between masters are.

I'll definitely take a look at Fate of Mortals as it seems like a really nice suggestion here!

3 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

Flicker ends "at the end of the turn". Small rulebook page 32 states that end of turn effects happen during the upkeep step. VP happens after that.

So Oni that flicker out aren't on the board when you check for VP.

Should have known this. It's really been too long since I last had something like this :s

3 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

This is why I like to hire an Obsidian Oni, as they auto trigger to drop scrap from their 'Flames from the Heavens' attack which is very handy for Asami to boost the flicker values.

Thanks for the answers. I knew about the Obsidian, but I'm still a bit hesitant on using it right now.

Any hints on what upgrades you're swapping with Kamaitachi + Terracotta?

I'm guessing the Yokai 0 action let's him use the interact action whether or not he's engaged, but it would be great to get some confirmation on that.

Going to be playing Asami tonight with Kamaitachi (of however you write that) and the Terracotta damage controllers. What upgrade do you usually swap between to get the Kamaitachi bonus? I'll be bringing Heavenly design, Grasping strands and Nefarious pact on Asami; My other models will have either Recalled or Equality on them (still deciding).

With Yan Lo, it was fairly easy to decide. Just get a Chi upgrade and trololol swap to Recalled training every single turn. Since I'm bad at using the Soul Porter, the Kamaitachi was a pretty awesome upgrade for me. For Asami, it's a lot harder as I don't have a clue on what would be useful to swap out. I'm thinking about Grasping Strands, but I'm not completely sure about that.

EDIT: Just realised Interference is our Strat. How does the Asami Flicker mechanic work with that? Do Flickered models go away before counting the models or do they stay for it?

Currently looking for reliable ways of getting Corpse and Scrap markers as well.

I'm guessing the Yokai's 0 action allows him to take the interact action even when engaged, right?

So many ways of getting stuff done in this crew, it's insane. I'm used to playing Yan Lo and Lynch, but this crew just seems pretty crazy!

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it worked like that, but I still prefer to get it cleared out before any arguements can start.

8 hours ago, qoob said:

I played against Pandora in Headhunter. Reckoning is similar in the way that you have to kill someone. The Pandora player mood swinged my Yokai and my Jorogumo. The sacrifice was a necessary step. So a clear Yes from my side.

I'm not certain what you mean with this. Do you mean that the Flicker sacrifice counts as kills for Reckoning? I'm only playing on the standard schemes and strats, so I prefer to actually know how the crews interact with them.

Guess I won't go with the Bettari alpha strike then. I'll have to switch up my tactics a bit from my Lynch crew then. I'm going to miss blowing up a 10+ ss model turn 1

Do you feel like the Oni and Yokai are sufficient to generate scrap and corpse markers?

Does the sacrifice work against you for Reckoning?

Do you feel like you can get a good alpha strike with emissary, asami and bettari? I'm comparing it to how I have a tendancy to blow up stuff turn 1 with my lynch, huggy and Yu combo. I can blow up people that are standing on their own board edge turn 1 rofl

2 hours ago, qoob said:

The  on Ml 5 is worth a lot on a charging Yokai. So you have your 9 of  against a 13 of . Then you have all that nice triggers. Flay? Easy if you have Bettari with you. Soul Burn? Easy with a new summoned Yokai. Even the other 2 triggers are great. If you manage to hit the  it's a nice one. 

Jorogumo has a range of 3" and a higher dmg track, alright. But you have to hit first before you deal some damage. Statistically seen it's easier to hit someone with a  even if that means min. dmg 2.

And imo it's not worth the 13 of any suit for a Jorogumo summon in most cases. 

I agree with you that Yokai has a higher chance of damaging.

However, a Yokai goes down that same turn whereas a Jorogumo with more than 1 Flicker will stay even into the next turn. This means you can get activation control into the next turn, which is something I value quite a bit. You can summon a Yokai that next turn and have 2 nice damage dealers of which one is tanky and can hand out Poison +3.

I do not find that Jorogumo loses when it comes to triggers vs Yokai. If you can get a  you get a + for the damage track, which means you can probably cheat the damage. Being able to do that, while having "Eat Your Fill" can basicly nullify any progress your opponent made on it.

Then there is the giant area the Jorogumo covers with his big base and 3" range, so Asami can stand behind it and just summon all the Yokai she wants without being scared of getting attacked.

If I get the choice of summoning a +2 Flicker Jorogumo or a +3 Flicker (Fickle passive) Yokai, I will almost always go for the Jorogumo unless I'm in my last turn.

Can the 13 be used for something else? Yeah sure. You'll probably end up cheating a card anyways, so you might as well summon the biggest hindrance to whatever you opponent wants to do.

Just to check, you can stone for the suit, right? If you can, Yokai might not be an insta-cheat, but still has a high chance of needing a cheated card.

47 minutes ago, qoob said:

Yep. Exactly. The yokai and Obsidian Oni are great for their costs. I think that Yokai have more offensive potential than Jorogumo imo. So why spending a 13? Jorogumo are nice to block LoS or tanking but the price is too high. 

 

Why would you say a yokai has more offensive potential than a Jorogumo? I get it that their charge can be better with the + on it, but 1 mi and higher damage track and a way higher durability makes the Jorogumo a higher priority for me. Then again I haven't played Asami yet and I'm looking for advice here, so I'm probably not seeing something.

I just like the fact that you can throw a Jorogumo un the middle of their crew and they probably need 2-3 activations to kill it, which makes it a lot better than an Oni or Yokai imo.

I was looking at getting a summoning master and I'm already heavily invested into the Ten Thunders. Naturally I would look at Asami. Reading this thread has shed some light on how she works, but I still have a couple of questions:

1. Does she have a super-high summon with Tannen the way Dreamer can summon Teddy? I don't think so, but I can always be mistaken.
2. How do you get your corpse/scrap markers down? I've read somebody said to summon a Yokai Turn 1, but seems strange as sacrificed models don't drop markers iirc?
3. I suck with Shenlong as doing schemes is my weakest part of this game. Is Asami still a good master for me?
4. How annoying is the Flicker mechanic? Newly-summoned models only last for the turn, unless you have corpse/scrap markers closeby. Yokai can get up to +2 Flicker if summoned (?) so he kind of bypasses this.

Thanks for the answers

15 minutes ago, Joel said:

1) doesn't it say minion on it - which huggy isn't?

2) he can be killed while buried

Thanks!

I somehow forgot Huggy wasn't a minion. Guess that upgrade isn't going to be seeing much play from me then, unless I run a full thematic Darkened crew.

Actually have 2 more questions.

1) If I attach the Addict upgrade to Huggy, does he benefit from the +flips too? Iirc it doesn't say "other" friendly Darkened, so I think it should work?

2) Lynch with The Rising Sun: how does that interact with models that can damage buried models? Can Huggy be killed when he is buried or does he just keep getting reburried?

5 hours ago, Joel said:

Lilith, Pandora, Collodi at the top

dreamer, lynch , Titania on next level

zoraida, Lucius on level below that 

As someone who is a big fan of the dreamer and his crew mechanics (widow weaver, coppelius, summoning, ...), what exactly is he lacking that the top 3 have? I haven't played him and I just got Lynch, but I always thought Dreamer was one of their strongest masters. From what I've heard, his summoning allows him to be competitive in pretty much anything.

7 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Except it's Tendrils that spreads brilliance on Huggy...

Fml. I thought that Heed My Voice also gave out Brilliance, but it just makes existing Brilliance last all game. This is why I need to buy him and actually get the cards

EDIT: I'm wondering now what the consensus is on Tannen and Graves. I see Tannen appearing in quite a lot of lists, but Graves barely ever (if at all!). Since these models were made for eachother, why is Graves seeing so little play?

7 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Not sure if no else caught this, but a model hit with Yin's  to Ca and Wp duels isn't going to have a  when targeted by a Ca action unless it is targeting Wp. The type of duel a model takes is determined by the stat it is using. Huggy attacking a model with Tendrils is going to be making a Ca duel against the targets Df duel, so no . However, using Heed My Voice will cause the target to take a Wp duel, which would impose a  on them.

6 hours ago, skoatz said:

I think they left out the WP part.  That's how I read it, "Ca targeting Wp instead of Df".

Oops, I forgot that indeed. Since he only has 1 attack that can spread Brilliance, I thought it would be clear that I was talking about Heed My Voice. Thanks for noticing and explaining it again. It always helps to get a refresh and some extra info.

I've decided to get the Lynch box with Yin and the 10T brothers. That's already a pretty good investment with the rest that I have and I can go for both killy schemes and marker schemes. Soon I can fill people with fear of Huggy ^^

My crew skeleton right now is:

• Lynch (Huggy upgrade, Woke up with a Hand, maybe Wanna see a trick)
• Huggy (Recalled Training depending on soulstones left and which Huggy upgrade I picked)
• Sensei Yu (Wandering River Style)
• Yin
• Katanaka Sniper (area denying and turn 1 nice damage with Yu)
• TT Brother (Tarpit + amazing scheme marker control)
• Tengu (Slippery due to scheme markers and regeneration make it easy for him to get to the back)
• Illuminated (more Brilliance and I find it a good model in general)

Obviously I'm not getting a Tengu if I don't have scheme marker things going on. Brother is a 50-50, depending on whether or not I need the second tarpit. Might swap both those out of a second Illuminated or a second sniper or Izamu if I wanna go YOLO HAM.

18 minutes ago, skoatz said:

Lynch is a lot of fun.  It's enjoyable pointing Lynch at something and deleting it from the table.  I'm glad you're enjoying him so far.

I don't have Lynch, I'm thinking of getting him. I like masters with unique mechanics and the card recycle from Lynch looks like a lot of fun. I'm mainly theorizing right now on what scenario's he could be good and how his crew could work with him. I'm going to order what I feel like getting and is effective with Lynch and then see how I like him.