cfrag

I stopped using him because he tends to die way to easily, which in turn made me stop depending on him, which made me wonder why he was in the crew in the first place. 

On top of that he is too slow and using him as a cheap pigapult will work only if the tossed targets place themselves in range and there is an open lane since it is a push

On 2017-5-23 at 3:20 PM, Dogmantra said:

Nothing stopping you from taking them both

but they're fairly different models in fairly different roles imo, and the bonus for Mech Porkchop is a little easier to set up imo because you only need to charge from within the aura, not begin your activation within it. That does mean any extra generated charges aren't getting the s, but it does let you make use of Pigcharge by taking a walk with your first AP to get in range for the aura. Plus Old Major is fairly card hungry, while the Mech Porkchop is pretty card-neutral. One of the easy to overlook benefits of high stats and Bayou Two Card :D. And of course, in a Mah list I'd be inclined to dump a good old Burt or something in there, so Mah and Burt can make use of the positives too. In a pure pig list there's no contest, but I am quite fond of the mech porkchop.

I don't think damage is really the point of Piglets, it's just a nice bonus, but I guess I rate them differently because I figure if they're there they're already doing their job by not being dead. Moving from 4 to 5 is a pretty big milestone, it puts you at a slight advantage vs average defense. It doesn't really matter which trigger you get imo, because they all tie into disruption.

This just raised a question in my head: If you have a pig start its activation and charge from within mech porkchop and old major's auras, will it get  (from both auras)?

That is a super expensive combo, but a mighty impressive one! I do like mech porkchops for how autonomous they are, but I never considered using them along with old major

I sometimes use Sammy with Ulix, but with hunting bow instead of husbandry. That way she can hit big porks in the rear, leaving just the summoning for ulix. 

I am not sure if I really like it because it doesn't feel like it's worth 9SS. I am also very fond of penelope with ulix. Try having gracie with 5Wk and a free push, and you'll see how scary she becomes, especially if you can get her to charge from within old major's range

2 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

This has been my thinking as well. But then we came to the problem of it being an 8SS-module and then you usually want something else as support as well.

Not saying that it is an insurmountable problem (there's a few solutions suggested in the other thread) or that it isn't worth it, mind you.

One thing worth remembering is that Wisps are still Minions even if they are Insignificant - they count for many strats which is nice (well, in the case of Collect the Bounty).

Exactly. It is not an awful lot, but it draws from you support budget (using terms from your other post about the subject :D).

The models I find working great with zoraida are models that are already strong by themselves. McTavish is a superb bodyguard for Z (she is a swampfiend BTW, which ups his sh to 7), Burt with 4AP is ridiculous, and roosters with an extra hand from Z can also wreck flanks. But then, you better have some bayou 2 card because those obeys will drain your hand. 

13 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I super disagree that only one wisp doesn't justify Tarot Reading. I mean it's a pretty useless upgrade otherwise, but still so worth the cost for a little ghost called William.

Consider:

• 2ss is less than the cost of hiring the Voodoo Doll and yet gives you the same turn 1 3AP to position Zoraida well and maybe get an obey or a bewitch off.
• Much stronger control over your own activation order if you need a new doll
• Student of Conflict costs 5 and is 1 extra Master AP for 2 of her own. Wisp costs 5 and is 2 extra Master AP for 1 of its own.

Maybe I should have phrased it in another way: 1 wisp is pretty useful, but for the price of one, you might as well take 2 of them since 1 is pretty killable even when protecting it ( you want to cast the doll in a place  where it can hem the target, and that can leave your wisp out in the open), but 2 are much harder to deal with without sacrificing too much of your game.

I only played 2 games with Mamma Z and I felt the same. I dont think a single wisp justifies the upgrade. It becomes too expensive and your opponent will be killing it very easily after realizing what it does. 

I can see it being worth it with 2 wisps and/or waldgeists, since it becomes harder for your opponent to counter the wisp mechanic and it dillutes the cost of the upgrade over various hires

I don't think it's only the damage that you can't cheat, but also the attack. So it comes down to luck and lack of cards on your opponent's hand. It is still a decent way to drain cards from your opponent, but if you really want something dead, it is not reliable at all.

Although I can tell you: having sparks pop fast on pigapult for 4 attacks instead of 3 per turn is pretty fun, with the added bonus of being able to throw him to disrupt enemy buffing shenanigans

29 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

You'll note that I said so at the end of my post I was just pointing out there is a cheaper option (albeit an unreliable one). It's never been particularly useful when I used it.

I suppose the actual lowest investment for summoning would be some sort of Som'er dealie with Bayou Gremlins where you have them Dumb Luck to get as much use out of them, then kill them to turn em into piglets. But that's even more convoluted than Lenny, and you might as well be spending Som'er's AP to shoot rather than create ammo.

Me too mostly. I think he's way too easy to kill to rely on. He can be very useful but if your opponent notices that, they can basically delete him within a turn.

Sorry @Dogmantra, I should have mentioned your post as I realized we were all making the same point, although you rightfully added Lenny as an extra option that we missed. Its just that @codingCaptor math resonated so much with my table experience that I had to mention it

6 minutes ago, EpicWaffle said:

I'll say mine, even tho you guys explained all very well  I used to hate the pigapult in my earlie days of playing malifaux, because it drained so many resources out of my crew (ss and cards wise) to work. Preferring personally Stuffed as ammo (lower investment for higher dmgs), I generally bring 3 stuffed with it, making it 14ss of investment, which could had easly been 2 taxidermist/burt/frank et.c or 4 bayou gremlins just to make a couple of examples. Lately, I worked around it to try to understand where is worth and were's not to bring the pigapult, cause if well used it's quite potent, so here's my "notes" about it:

AGAINST WHICH CREW:

Good: Resser, Neverborn, Gremlin

Keeping in mind this is very on the "general level" (for example against a kirai crew, the pult is not optimal), these are the crews where you'll find most of the models on Df5, whith less armor/resistences (again, incorporeal is a thing in both neverborns and ressers), making it easier to shoot with it and reliably hit. Keep in mind tho that a gremlin player could bring the pigapult too in a mirror. Another factor to consider is that most of Resser models, and a lot of Neverborn ones, use Hard/Impossible to would as protection on big models/masters (teddy, archie,Nicodem etc) because of their low df value! So, since with stuffed you don't really care abot malus to the damage flip (since you can't cheat it), they're great target to hit, in order to soften down their generally high df value (a teddy at 6hp turn 2 is way easier to handle).

Bad: Outcasts, Arcanists, Ten Thunder, Guild

Generally models have either High DF values (especially guild and tt) or armor to soften down the damages (arcanists and outcasts), if not both. So at that point it doesn't mean that you need to rounce using it (scheme runners are always a good target for the pult), but you'll need to take in count that it won't be as effective. Also, there are a lot of models that can easly mess with it (raptors and Perdita to annoverate a couple), so definetly not an autoinclude, cause people are gonna bring countermesures to it. There are some exceptions tho, where for example against levi it can be quite good, cause you can threat his waifs at a great distance, or against ramos you can force him to play safe if he doen't want to get BACONED everyturn.

STRATEEGIES:

here the deal is easier: reconnoiter, interference in the pool? take it, it's gonna be painfully annoying for your opponent to shoot 3 models in a quarter as last activation (tho it's good with summoners like Somer and Ulix as @Dogmantra said). Others? value the scheme pull and see if it can accomplish you something ( for example against a new player is gona make him play very conservatly and cautios, tho you're gonna end up as quite a ''villain'' if it works really well, so I would recommend to do so in tournaments, not in casual games) having a model with 24'', no LoS threat range with model-reposition potentials.

 

Nothing ground breaking, but it's how i percive the model  

I believe that is the most balanced way to use it. As a mix of shooting and positioning in order to be the most pain in the ass possible for the opponent. Tossing a burt jebsen accross the board is quite a fun thing to do!

You can do the same with francois, but for that you must leave Stilts behind (it makes frank ht2) and I'm not that confident in franks capacity to survive without it, but the threat is there!

Overall, it is a great deterrent to the opponent, but not necessariliy for the damage potential

1 minute ago, codingCaptor said:

First, there are only 8 cards (including red joker) that can get that trigger off and hit the TN.  That's 15% of the deck.   In a hand of 6 cards from a fresh deck, you have an approximate 60% chance of drawing at least one of those cards.

Assuming you relent (Which you probably should)   you'll be flipping 3 cards.   The chance of flipping a non-weak card out of a full deck is 63%    So the chances of flipping 3 non-weak cards is around 25%, making the chances of flipping weak damage around 75%.      So you need a 60% chance followed by a 75% Chance, giving us a 45% chance of being able to successfully summon a piglet on any given turn.

Now, this is assuming a full deck with replacement, and I didn't account for the black joker, so these are not 100% correct numbers, and the percentages will vary wildly throughout the turn as your deck approaches depleatedness.    But that's a rough ballpark for trying to summon with Lenny.  It is very unreliable.

CodingCaptor wrote it better than I ever would.

My table experience with Lenny and pigapult has been so unreliable I haven't even considered it a fair option.

I actually stopped using Lenny at all, but that is a whole other topic.

I'll reinforce what most people said. Even though I love the model look (as can be seen by my forum pic :D), I do not use it regularly. The reason? To play it effectively you end up playing way too much around it. 8SS for the pigapult itself + 6-12 SS for ammo for 3 turns if you plan on shooting, leaving 2 turns for placing ht1 minions. Sure, you can summon ammo, but then you will need either a) a specific master or b ) Taxidermists and some sacrificial model like a bayou gremlin. 

So, for a) you are limited to ulix and pigs, which means you must be bringing big pigs with you for summoning and husbandry upgrade + dirty cheater. So, 8SS + 4 for upgrades + 9-10 for a big pig +5 for slop hauler. You're already at 30SS and this is just barely working. Also, you are limited to a style of play that might not suit what you intend.

Option b ) is not really an option because it's actually more expensive than hiring the stuffed and/or regular piglets. You could get more mileage using somer's summon.

My bottom line here is: You will end up adapting way more than half your crew to fit this playstyle, and that means you must rely on the pigapult for the whole match. And I don't like to have my matches rely on a single model (it has gone wrong way more times than I care to admit). 

I once used sparks with a pigapult vs a hoff crew. I used him on turn 1 and 2 to give pigapult fast, then threw it right into the middle of hoffs bubble with the pigapult. It was definitely an unexpected move for my adversary and it screwed his plans for turn 2 (he really had to kill sparks before going on with his plans), but it's needless to say that sparks didn't live to see turn 3. I still think this can be a good use of him vs certain crews, since turn 2 is usually the most important turn in the game

Thank you so much for all that info. The ship is not quite how I had in mind, but that description sure is detailed enough for one to go on building a scale model of it. I find it so gremlin-like, the whole idea of having a potential weapon of mass destruction on the ship and not giving a damn about it. And I really like it how Earl is such an important part of it all.

2 minutes ago, Joel said:

I do have a display board airship for my Zipp crew, in fact, I wouldn't have done the crew without one!  I decided to go with a mix of sails (furled) and rotor blades rather than a zeppilin approach however.  It is based off a boat kit from darkops, then modified with stuff from my bits box.  

That's what I was thinking about also. Considering it comes from Abyssinia, I am even more okay with that idea. They would have the tech to make a floating ship without the need for balloons. Also, soulstone power as fuel could also work as an explanation 

edit: would you be so kind as to show us some pics of your display?

I'm not gonna lie. I got the idea after seeing those GW ships, but at the same time I thought they didn't look malifaux-y enough. Which made me realize how little I knew about the ship, which then got me to this thread's original question.

That said, what I have in mind would be a bit larger than those ships, to the point of it being almost enough terrain for a whole table

That is amazing!! Thank you for sharing that. I am toying with the idea of making an airship as a terrain piece, but then I realized i know so little of it. With that bit of info I can picture an airship with an Abyssinia-like look that is quite different from what I had in mind, but actually pleases me a lot.

So, I've been trying to know more about Zipp's airship.

All the information I could find about it is that it was an experimental airship stolen by Zipp, that he named it Infamy, and that Earl Burns was the lead engineer of it before he got kidnapped.

This leaves sooo many questions! 

Who was it stolen from?

What is the size of it? What size is zipp's regular crew? How many pianos can you fit in it? Etc.

Can you guys help me find more sources of information about it? Like malifaux books, through the breach books or official podcasts.

Thanks!

The way I usually played Ulix is with something along the following list:

Ulix
    Dirty Cheater, 1SS
    Husbandry, 3SS
Old Major, 9SS
    Corn Husks, 2SS
Sammy LaCroix, 7SS
    Huntin' Bow, 2SS
Merris LaCroix, 6SS
Slop Hauler, 5SS

Total: 35

This would be the core. I usually bring another 50mm pig like the sow (to summon from and abuse hunting bow) , but it's not super necessary. A starting piglet is also great to help with the schemes for a warpig summon, but not super necessary.

I really like merris with this list because she makes the warpig setup really easy, and if you are unlucky enough not to have a 12  in your hand, even after popping a soulstone at the game start, you can use her ability to draw 2 and place 3 on top of the deck. yes, you get one less car in hand, but this is hardly a problem turn 1.

I go heavy summon with ulix turn 1 and 2, popping 2 piglets and 1 warpig per turn and healing them all back up with ulix aoe heal on pigs and slop hauler. Sammy is there to put pressure with hunting bow, but I reckon she might not be super necessary. Also tried a taxidermist last time, and I can tell you: a flying Sow charging from a hunting bow shot is quite something

I always enjoy reading about people playing Mah. I don't have her crew yet and hear a lot of bad stuff about the crew box with the exception of Trixiebelle, so it's great to have battle reports to read and try to jump to my own conclusions about it.

Do you still have the brewmaster starter crew and/or the whiskey golem?

12 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Fun thing to do with a 3 stone model against a big bruiser (also works against shooters/blasters):
Jam it.

Double walk, push, pigapult, whatever it takes, get that 3 stone model close enough to engage the big bruiser before it can do anything meaningful (i.e. activate in the midfield). Now it either (1) needs another model to come relieve it or (2) needs to spend AP killing a 3 stone model that has no other job to do than distract it. Your 3 stone model forces your opponent to spend a resource (AP) dealing with it on your terms, instead of theirs.

Bonus points if you can achieve this with a stuffed piglet. 2SS to stall an 11SS model for a whole turn AND put some damage on it on death? Yes plz!

I really like Gracie, but I find her too slow to be an auto take. I mean, yea,  she can reactivate, but it comes at a cost (2 wounds and a 7+ card). If you really think about it, a single walk from a rooster rider is almost as good as 2 walks by gracie (7in vs 8in).

I tend to bring Gracie when:

- The strat favors sticky models (like guard the stash)

- I suspect there will be a lot of melee engagements. Eating an enemy and resetting your wounds is amazing, but only if you dont die before chomping someone.

- The saddle brings a great benefit to the already picked crew combo, like making sure a Lenny keeps up with the rest of the team.

I tend to leave Gracie out when:

- I suspect my opponent will have HtK/Armor ignoring attacks

- My schemes involve marker dropping and/or general movement

- Strats that involve board control. Gracie is amazing, but costs 11SS (because no one brings gracie without at least 1 upgrade). 11SS are a lot of models  (at least in Gremlins anyway :D)

So, bottom line: if I know I need the extra firepower to be able to control a position on the board, or I really want a certain model dead, Gracie will be heavily considered (lenny + gracie or burt + gracie are an expensive but very very deadly combo).

If I want activation, board control and/or movement, Gracie will stay home

6 hours ago, EnternalVoid said:

And I hate saying this to answer your other question but the best schemes for Gremlins are the ones you design your crew to complete.  An elite crew with a selection of Enforcers and henchmen is better for Hunting Party and one with more cheaper models might favor Claim Jump or Search the Ruins.  I know my answer is a bit of a cop out answer but the truth is Gremlins are not really hurting in any field for completing schemes or Strategies, they really are a competitive faction in the grand scheme of things.  Just that like with any faction you need to know what your options are and what your opponent is capable of to pull out the full power.

This is very true. You said you have trouble with schemes that have to drop scheme markers. I, on the other hand, love schemes with scheme markers or interactions when playing Ulix. Having activation control and being capable of having piglets drop schemes as a (0) action is huge.

I can say that picking the right schemes is very important. I lost many game until I realized that. It's the difference from playing against your adversary or playing against your own goals AND your adversary.

One example: If you pick Assassinate and Murder protege, you better have a very very killy crew. Killing a master is never easy, but killing a master and the most expensive enemy model needs a very specific crew. I used to pick those 2 because I thought "well, im gonna be killing things anyway". It's never that easy.

Conversely, you don't pick shceme dropping schemes without scheme runners. And it should be plural, because runners are suaully squishy and you don't want to lose the game because one of them died.

It very much depends on the type of crew you enjoy playing. I like activation control and outnumbering my opponent, so I tend to not kill the deadliest enemy models, and instead I just toss some stuffed piglets their way while I put pressure dropping as many scheme markers as possible early game, following by focusing on strat. Then, my opponent will have to think about countering my schemes, while worrying about the strat AND thinking about their own schemes.

About the peacekeeper in particular: last time I played against one I had a Glowy McTavish and Sammy. Sammy used the trigger that makes peacekeeper incapable of moving/charging, while mctavish just blasted his ass from afar. It was some easy 3VP from murder protege. If I wasnt doing that scheme, I wouldnt even bother killing the peacekeeper since it wouldnt be doing much

Although people have said it, I will repeat it: Merris!

She's only 6SS and although it's only wk5, being flying is a huge boon. Also, she can pop a scheme marker as a (0) and closer to another marker than by usual means.

Although her attack is strange (burn +3 with no track dmg) it is pretty good vs some models because it ignores cover and flips to dmg because you dont flip for damage.

Lastly, but definitely not least, she really helps when you have a really bad hand and desperately want higher cards in your hand. Taking 2 cards from the top of your deck and placing 3 back helps your hand and, depending on how in control of the activations you are, might not be a drawback, You just need to be creative (for example, drop 3 low cards and use a bayou gremlin to attack somer with those low cards. The attack will fail and if you do it right somer will get the trigger to move)

I stopped playing with her because it was becoming a crutch model so bad that people actually assumed I was going to take her

Although a positive flip is not always better than Bayou 2 Card, I believe is is as strong as Bayou 2 Card when considering models for the "bigger hat than you" type of crew we were talking about. Also, having the sow charge with double positives from the old major is scary, especially if you consider that she has terrifying, which will make you opponent burn his hand (if he/she still has one) trying to hit her

3 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I really like the idea of using Old Major and the Saddle to cart Som'er around - you get two extra walks per turn to try to get into range/LoS for Bigger Hat, and then if you do get it off, Old Major gets reactivate for an extra two walks or more shenanigans.

Of course it locks you into at least a few pigs if you want to make the most of having Old Major, and on top of that you want stuff with Bayou Two Card so it's not the most flexible thing. It's still a fun idea (even if the one time I tried it I didn't manage to Bigger Hat even once)

However, if you take the Sow, it has positive flips to attack and dmg + the positive flips from charging if Old Major is nearby. That is even better than bayou 2 card

edit: even if you fail the bigger hat 3 times because the opponent cheated, its 3 high cards less that he/she has. I find it very useful, especially if your hand is not very good