retnab

2 hours ago, CrimsonWraith said:

...through actual testing.

Bit hard to test "this will cause every single future Outcast model to have to be balanced around becoming Tormented" in a game.

2 hours ago, CrimsonWraith said:

No, your “cute” idea will break my way of playing and the powers that be will totally change it this time even though there is no batrep.

Oh, crap I missed the part where somebody actually put this on the table.... wait, no I didn’t.

I think you also missed the part where a beta is also about finding flaws in the rules and pointing them out.

Nope, the death happens at C.2.e and Vengeance happens at C.2.f

Case in point, with this around Plague can't ever get a beater with Nihilism. You can make Hamelin into a Tormented model for the pushes, or if you do it to Nix then Monty can also Obey it on a 4+, all while just discarding to ignore the Staggered

20 minutes ago, Kolath said:

I'd say leave it. And change it only if it every became a problem. There were niche tactics in m2e with cursing your own guys as well to get the free push. At best these are all super fringe strategies. Don't ruin everyone's fun over that.

This isn't ruining fun, this is closing loopholes. Every other instance of open ended keyword jank has very intentionally been removed, this feels like an oversight.

So just to clarify, whether it's a valuable strategy currently or not, are we all on board with closing the "JD can make any friendly a Keyword model" door and make giving the upgrade to Enemies only?

Yup, I don't see anything that stops that either.  Could take two Guilty and have the Wretch bury both and drop them in the enemy's DZ on your 3rd and 4th activations of the game, which seems a bit unintended.  The fact that JD can turn anything into a Keyword model feels like the gamiest element here (and lets him open a door which we've otherwise firmly closed), so maybe the answer here should be Suppressed Memories reworded to "Target suffers 2/3/3 damage.  If the target is an Enemy, attach an Injustice Upgrade to the target."

Yup, especially when you combine the quote you mentioned on Pg 29 ("A model can only have one instance of each Condition at a time") with Pg 23's "If any of an Action’s effects cannot be resolved, they are ignored" then the action cleans up to just "discard a card" basically.

For stacking Conditions counting as gaining when they're added together,  I also don't think it's clear enough.  I have a feeling the RAI is no, but then on Pg 29 you also have "Some Conditions have an associated value, such as Burning +1. If a model with such a Condition gains another instance of that same Condition, the value of the gained Condition is added to the model’s existing value for that Condition to create a single Condition" which starts off by saying the model gains the Condition and then doesn't clarify later if adding the Conditions together still counts as gaining or not, so RAW I think adding together does still count as gaining (which is actually a solid buff for Iggy assuming it doesn't get reworded/FAQ'd).

Yep, it's still a walk action

3 hours ago, DumbLuck said:

If a model already has a non stackable condition like stunned, can it gain stunned again to proc Misery?  Say a model has Stunned and activates next to Candy triggering her Corrupted Innocence, it must discard a card and gain stunned.  Does that second stunned still work for misery?  

Nope, can't gain another copy of a non-stacking condition, so the enemy would just discard a card and ignore the second Stunned.

4 hours ago, Flippin' Wyrd Matt said:

I am still surprised at the decision to make a significant change like Family Values and not test it?

Or adjust it based on any of the feedback from the testers since it was put it out. 

It's the complete opposite to what i had come to expect of the play test and how it had been handled up until this point.

Ironsides got a total overhaul to the front of her card that halved her Adrenaline gain in the last final version and she got changed, hopefully Dita & co get a bit of love that way too.

33 minutes ago, frumpypigskin said:

I'm just reading the as miner again after some time away. Does busy mining mean he can move twice and interact as a bonus ( if he didn't mine as and become stunned that turn) or if he mines a SS he can still move once and interact?

Yes to both

While I do like that idea, I think it'd be more an issue of defining what all the "base" abilities he'd gain are. It'd almost have to be done on a special upgrade he attaches at the start that matches a keyword the leader has.

Be careful using A&D if Take Prisoner is in the pool. If the opponent kills A&D then the Core becomes the Take Prisoner target and if your opponent also kills the Storm then the End VP is practically effortless against the Core.

pg 23: "A  model  is  considered  to  be resolving  an  Action  during every  part  of  the “Resolving  Actions”  process.  For  instance, if a  model  was  in  Hazardous  Terrain  (pg. @@) during any  part  of  the  “Resolving  Actions” process,  the  effects of  the  Hazardous Terrain  are  applied  to  the  model  after the Action resolves."

I'm not 100% on how it works if the Hazardous is an Aura on a model killed during an Action, but my interpretation is since the Action at some point occurred while in Hazardous that it still triggers based on the above.

He's a frontline support model with basically no defensive tech.  If you can hide him then his basically free Construct heals, Scrapyard Mines, and Hostile Work Environment are awesome, otherwise he'll die in a blink.  Bombs in Yer Belly is a really good upgrade to give out, very nasty making a melee enemy blast onto themselves or their allies

Yes, but going to be far fewer people in the beta than overall and the more people looking at and playing with a crew the more tricks we're going to come up with

I don't know about the book, but I've got a list I'm planning on dropping in the Arcanist forums on launch that should be helpful for everyone

24 minutes ago, hoosiersoulstone said:

Mei-Feng: I think Mei is strong, especially in capable hands, but that she will have a steep learning curve. Once the turn 1 positioning game is mastered by her player, this crew is going to do some really fun and special things. While she is good in TT, the argument can be made that she is better in Arcanists due to the bells and whistles they get involving constructs.

RE: Arcanist vs TT, I think really the only significant things she gets in Arcanists are the Mech Rider (for 6" scrap drop and deck rigging), Mobile Toolkit (cheap heals and Focused), and Magical Training (Arcane Reservoir of course).  I honestly haven't really looked at what the OOK TT models offer her, maybe there's something solid there too?

So things are locked in now, but just as a thought what if McM's future alt card was focused less around doing lots of Poison to the enemy and instead around being a melee summoner?  So he could have Dismember on melee, and instead of Twisted Genius give him something similar but lets him summon any Experimental Undead Minion whose Sz is equal to the # of nearby Corpses he discards?

He's friendly to himself so I'd argue it does count

Good catch.  Should start with "While Buried, ..."

Hard to kill prevents health from reducing, it doesn't reduce damage, so it does stop irreducible.

With Stealth they're respectable scheme runners now. However I think I might just pay the extra ss to have a Dancer do its thing and use Ice Skating to just keep moving an Ice Pillar with it for Cover-to-go

FAQ 8. Are Combined Arms Fireteams attached to Squads (such as the Cutter and Walker) considered Squad Fireteams?

a. No. As such, they are not affected by game effects that specify Squad Fireteams (such as the Champion Rule).