Whut

I've been on a depleted and/or Waldgeist kick recently and I want to try out our third staple resilient minion.

How do you use Illuminated? Thinking primarily with Dreamer/Collodi/Lilith/Pandora (so, not Lynch). Two Illuminated heavily compete with Nekima, who puts out a stronger single activation at the top of the turn and is (one of?) the best Doppelganger synergy we have (and Dopple makes it into about 80% of lists).

When does their shooting attack come into play? Do you take one? Or two? Do you take a depleted or two to spread brilliance (I really dislike the cost of Beckoners, I don't like them)? Have you ever taken them without something that spreads brilliance at all? How do you make sure they don't get bursted down after activating? Is there any faction or strat/scheme pool that they really shine against? Do you hide them around corners? If so, how do you push them to let them charge out? Or, maybe you just let them walk and shoot to set up for a charge next turn?

Thanks!

Thanks guys, this thread did help me think a little more clearly. I especially like the Doppelganger idea, up until now I've just been thinking of her as a beatstick + Ill Omens. I'll have to learn to use her in more flexible ways (although requiring masks for sprint still kind of sucks, I'll get over it).

Do you think either Coppelius or Vasilisa is worth it? I can see sometimes summoning in Coppelius, but hiring either of them is SO SO expensive. For Vasilisa's 11 points (not to mention extra for a Stitched or something) I could get a Teddy, or McTavish, or nearly two Waldgeists, or two Depleted with extra to spare for elsewhere. That's a lot of fighting/tarpitting power you're losing in the eventual combat.

Similar for Coppelius if you take On Dreaming wings. Plus I never know how to use him. He can't disengage very well with Df4, but if you stand around getting eyes you're not doing your schemes. He also can't hunt enemy models very well with a 1/3/4 damage spread (can't use stoned for triggers so thats not guaranteed) and this awkward my-cg-is-shorter-than-my-Wk statistic that usually ends up with him walking up to an enemy and only having 1 AP to attack. And he can't really contribute to the combat in the middle because of his squishy Df4 and extremely low damage not really being a huge threat. It's a vicious cycle I feel. He can't be safe until he gets eyes, but he can't get eyes without being unsafe. The only way I've found to use him is as a Horror bomb - summon him with dreamer into combat with some enemies, accomplice him, attack, trigger the pulse Horror Duel, and then consume the eyeball to heal up (probably around 4-7 Wd at this point). Then you just... hope you're not enough of a threat to be killed? But assuming I have a 12 or 13 to summon Coppelius and amother high Crow card to trigger Remove Eye, I'd probably prefer to summon a (not slowed) Stitched Together with the crow card and have that 12-13 left over to guarantee a 3/4/7 damage flip. Coppelius feels to me like a model that was designed to do a little of everything, but ends up subpar at everything he does.

*Wow sorry that got a little ranty*

How do you prefer to tackle Breakthrough? It comes up in nearly 50% of games statistically, and it's one where you really need a plan before going in. Im envious of Arcanists who have SS miners, practiced production, and Mech Rider who all make this scheme super easy to pull off. I'm also envious of Ressers because they have Necropunks, a scheme runner who can easily take a punch and still be fit enough to get the job done.

It seems like all our options are either expensive, fragile, or inefficient.

We have:

 

The Runners: Terror Tots, Gupps, Insidious Madnesses

Pros: Not expensive

Cons: Only moderately quick, very fragile

 

The Premium: Silurids, Coryphee (Collodi), Rooster Riders (Z)

Pros: Very Fast, the latter two can also be anti-scheme runners

Cons: Very expensive, and still fragile (Coryphee will have 2 Wounds left if they use Strum the Threads) Also the latter two forve you to play a certain master.

 

The Crooligan: Gupps + Hexed Among You

Pros: From the Shadows

Cons: Forces you to take Zoraida, Juju, or McTavish, still fragile, need to survive a turn while largely unsupported

 

The Cleanup: Kill your opponent, then place markers on turns 4-5.

Pros: Don't need to spend SS on runners

Cons: All-or-nothing. You better hope you can pull ahead.

 

The Dreamer: Play Dreamer, summon Madnesses mid game and let them fly off to scheme on Turn 4-5.

Pros: Don't need to spend SS on runners 

Cons: Don't fall behind, you need to establish some board control before it's viable to summon these in.

 

My biggest concern is strong fast models  (Like Cassandra, Rooster Riders, Coryphee, Nekima, Riders, Any combat master, etc) or snipers (Trappers, Austringers, McTavish, etc) can dispose of most of our scheme runners, or at least block off large parts of the board from safe passage. And sure you might say "Well if a 8-9 SS Cassandra is occupied killing a 4 point Gupp, you're ahead. Yet although it can provide you the opportunity to grab more board control, your opponent is at a significant advantage if you now have to scramble to try to get VP for Breakthrough.

Thoughts? Breakthrough (Or plant evidence, which is similar) often comes up in pools where the alternatives I'd rather not take (Distract, Spring the Trap, Outflank, Bodyguard, Assassinate, Murder Protege, etc) so I really want to get an idea of what to do and also how to avoid getting outplayed.

So in that case should I even take the Arcane Effigy if I'm not expecting to need condition removal? Unlike the Brutal (Finish the Job, not terrible damage on a ranged weapon) or Lucky (great damage), it's attacks and abilities provide nothing else.

Hey, I'm about an hour and a half away, not close enough to make it out consistently, but will you have tournaments going on anytime in the near future? I'll make it out to get 3 guaranteed games and meet some cool people

Take this for instance - it's the top of turn 3, you win initiative. You can:

1) Brutal Effigy Buff -> Arcane Effigy Buff (nothing productive done to the enemy until your next activation)

2) Brutal Effigy Buff -> Collodi (so he can get Fast from Strum and heal the 2 damage back) (But he doesn't get the bonus burning from Arcane Effigy)

3) Arcane Effigy Buff -> Collodi  (he gets good effect from burning, but has to suck up the 2 Wounds without healing)

4) Collodi -> Illuminated (Collodi can obey to set up a charge on the enemy, then Accomplice the Illuminated to charge it, but neither Collodi, nor the Illuminated get benefit from the effigies that you spent 8 points to buy)

Yes there is flexibility, but I feel like no matter what I do I'm not being effective with taking advantage of Collodi's strengths and multiple buffs while working around activation order.

Collodi does so many things that it's really hard to pin down his crew and especially activation order.

1) He has Accomplice, helping you get more effective activations at the top of a crucial turn

2) He can give out Focus to all minions, which ends at the end of the turn. So you want to activate early to get as much use as possible.

3) He can also give out Defense, which is better as your last activation of the turn.

4) His obey tricks (especially the crow trigger on his attack + Accomplice) is perfect for setting up charges without your opponent reacting, great for killing key enemy models before they activate.

5) Alternatively, his obey tricks can be used at the very end of the turn to force an enemy off of an objective.

6) When he activates, he also wants all  his on-attack Effigy buffs (Arcane, Lucky, Brutal) (cause he's usually going to have 2-3 of those).

So the problem I'm having is activation order. In mid-game it seems like a total waste to win initiative just to do effigy buff, accomplice, Effigy buff (and then your oppoent effectively has initiative because you  didnt take proper advantage of it. But you also don't want to activate Collodi without his Effigy buffs on him. But you ALSO don't want to leave Collodi's activation for late cause you don't get to use his massive enemy control on the current turn or take advantage of setting up a charge. What do? His advantages seem really mixed between wanting to activate early, middle, or late to take full advantage.

I don't even care about her hiring pool,  that's pretty good as it is. I wish she had some way to get more AP. With 3 different actions with costs of (2) available to her, she really seems like a master that is lacking AP a lot of the time. Something like adding a Tome trigger to all her CA actions: (Tome) - After succeeding, Zoraida immediately gains 1 general AP. This trigger may be declared once per Turn.

Rants and Ramblings:

Doppelganger is constantly considered an auto-take for many people that play our faction. But now we have a new choice, Changelings.

Since Wave 3 came out, I've been trying to fit changelings everywhere. I would have 1 in every list, sometimes 2. The (0) is fantastic for getting extra movement to place markers/get in engagement range. They can copy all our best attacks like Nekima and Teddy, although at Ml4, without dumping a card for it. Theyre cheap. They can also copy masters' actions.

Doppelganger on the other hand, needs a 7 but can get a Tome trigger to take the action immediately, though this suffers from the Black Joker creeping up sometimes. It copies at a much longer range, and keeps the high stat if the action comes with one. She also provides Ill Omens, which is AMAZING in a faction that often brings at least one heavy damage piece (Teddy, Nekima, Mature, Chompy, McTavish)  so you can ensure initiative on crucial turns when you need to charge or escape. This has synergy with you wanting these same expensive models to copy from. On top of all of this, she's moderately tanky with Manipulate 14 and has Don't Mind Me, for just 7 cost.

 

My issue comes when wanting to include these options. Doppelganger is nearly the price of 2 changelings, but Ill omens is such a powerful ability with Nekima or Teddy that I don't want to leave without taking her. Like I said, she's basically an auto-include for most people, and I'm starting to agree with that idea. I'm hard pressed to find a better value for 7ss.

So that leaves Changelings. 4 stone models that (with some careful positioning) can have 3" melee threat with a 4/5/6 damage spread, and have a (0) action that nearly mirrors Nimble. Amazing. Incredible. But this comes with a few issues:

1) You have a lot of dependence on your heavy hitters. Sure, you can take Nekima, Doppelganger, and 2 Changelings, but then what if Nekima dies? Now you have a bunch of models that have to scramble to copy enemy actions. Therefore the more "copiers" you include, the more things to copy you should include, for redundancy. But this is a lot of points. Nekima, Mr Graves, Doppelganger, and 2 Changelings already defines nearly your whole list at 36ss of models.

2) They compete with other 4ss models. Depleted are INCREDIBLE for holding points and jamming up your opponent. Terror Tots are great scheme runners.

3) You get more Manipulative/Perfect Camouflage overlap.

4) If changelings want to copy something like Howard Langston, they're going to die. Copying and/or being near enemies that have weak or moderate damage 4 spells death for the changeling, because their only decent defense is Manipulative, which can be cheated.

How do you use changelings? Aside from spamming snipers, because that is pretty self-explanatory. I can see on paper that they are utterly fantastic, but in practice they often end up doing very little for me, usually just following things around and dropping scheme markers (and getting an occasional pair of attacks). Much of the time I feel like I would have been better served with a Depleted that could run into my opponent's crew and just jam things up and prevent charges and such, ESPECIALLY with Dreamer because he needs that buffer to prevent alpha strikes while he gets the summoning and healing engine working. My Doppelganger just does more, especially providing more board control (because she can sit 8" away from what she has to copy, she can threaten more of the board, unlike Changelings who are more like doubling down on an already scary threat due to often staying in base contact with what they copy due to their (0)).

Tl:dr:

This is obviously an issue with being spoiled for choice. These "copiers" are such amazing options that I'm stuck between an amazing choice and an amazing choice.

How do you plan to take advantage of either changelings or dopple? Do you prefer one over the other?

Also, as a side note, I'm thinking of neat things changelings can do:

Cheap Freikorps Trapper Spam

Copy Graves' push (but needs a 10)

Copy Zoraida's Bewitch (needs an 8)

Copy Widow Weaver's Exhale Terror - the horror duel is the same, and Web Markers make the Ca4 more relevant.

Follow Envy around. Envy walks, (0) focus, shoots. Changeling (0) follows envy, focuses, and shoots.

Copy Pandora's attack and attack her. If you fail (Ca4 vs Wp7 plus cheating) Pandora gets a free push. If you somehow succeed, Pandora takes no damage (because Pandora herself has no damage track and neither does the changeling)

 

HI Ben!  Will be reading through your comment in a sec. Thanks for the help!

Edit:

Yes, the Emissary I have definitely been thinking of trying. I've been scared to use it outside of strategies like Turf War or without Masters like Zoraida and Collodi who can move enemy models into the markers, but I'll give it a try to see how it works out.

You're right that my positioning screwed me. Even if the paralyze had worked, I completely forgot that Misaki also has an attack with blasts which would have ended poorly for me either way. I'm sure as I get more experience I'll get better at this, as currently I often lose models that are just summoned and have 1-3 wounds.

What I was referring to about Misaki's AP is the fact that she can (with Fast from Yu) walk, Charge ignoring terrain and models, and if she kills the target, charge again even deeper in my lines. Even without a kill, she can do the same if she doesn't walk. It's terrifying. Again, it's an experience thing. I'm sure I'll find a way to counter play eventually

If I choose to take a Depleted or two, would an Illuminated be a smart choice over a Waldgeist? How well does an Illuminated work out when not attacking something with brilliance? I'm thinking of dropping a Silurid cause you're right, they are super expensive.

I'm still not sold on Coppelius, maybe he just doesn't fit my playstyle.

For some background, I'm asking this cause I recently played a fantastic Misaki player and her Diving Charge and Stalking upgrade + assassination trigger (with some lucky crow flips) had me on the back foot as soon as she charged first turn and killed teddy and drained my hand. I had no killing power to retaliate against a Df6 Wp7 12Wd Misaki and Df6 Wp6 10Wd Shadowy Emissary, and felt entirely helpless. I've been thinking if I had a Waldgeist maybe I could have slowed her charge, but even so, Teddy can't kill everything and Stitched are not reliable against Df6.

Basically this mindset I'm temporarily stuck in has me thinking "there's nothing I can take that Misaki can't just assassinate and then charge through" (since she gains AP each time she kills something thanks to the Emissary)

So push him, give him fast, and have him walk up 3 times. Still anything that he wants to charge is going to try its hardest to stay out of LoS, and a lot of the time charging them turn 2 will still leave me eating a charge from a large enemy model. Who do you play against that immediately spreads out and leaves their scheme runners so far away from their main force? If you want to save a high ram, thats one more high card you need to save in addition to the two 10+'s you want to summon Lilitu and Lelu or Lilitu and a Stitched. You can't really bank on having 3 severe cards in your hand first turn I fear.

My issue with him is that it just takes way too long for me to ramp him up and doesn't amount to much. He is 10ss, which at the least is an Ama no Zako or almost a Mature/Teddy which can do tons of damage. For those 10ss, first turn you tend to double walk to intercept a scheme runner, and then second turn you walk and get to make 1 attack (because they're not going to put their isolated scheme runner within 8" and LoS of you). Now its turn 3, and Coppelius has only accomplished tying up a model that is most likely half his cost, and gotten 0-2 eyes. So maybe turn 4 he will actually be able to do something, but up until then I feel like I'm just missing a heavy beater that can threaten my opponent's crew like mentioned above for the same or similar cost.

Tannen though is slow and fragile. Maybe in a more passive scheme pool, but when I need to be fast, I'm not so sure. I'll try him out maybe sometime.

Coppelius I've played with twice and he's done nothing but make wish I'd taken something better for 10 points (with On Dreaming Wings). To start with his Df4 makes him SUPER fragile, and getting eyes is really hard unless you give him fast and let him charge an isolated enemy (otherwise he'll just get ganged up on and killed). He's not that tanky unless fully eyeballed and his damage is abysmal for a 10ss model (even for an 8 ss model). All he brings to the table is speed, but if you want speed you can get two Bloodwretches for the same cost. I've heard good things about him but I've never been able to make good use of him myself.

Problem with the Scion is that his aura needs you to discard two cards. I'm usually pretty card starved with Dreamer as it is. In my opinion for anything other than the condition removal, I'd rather take Graves.

Not to sound closed off to advice, I appreciate the tips. Just thought I'd share why I haven't tried these things yet.

I'm having a lot of trouble playing Summoning Dreamer in Stake a Claim. The problem being that in Stake I usually have my opponent headed right towards me instead of to some center objective, and since I take 2 Silurids for their speed and incredible Stake a Claim power, I don't really have the staying power and reach to survive long enough to see my summons heal up and be effective and spread across the entire board.

My base list is:

Dreamer, Dreams of Pain, Otherworldly, Wings of Darkness

Daydreams x2

Teddy, Retribution's Eye

Silurid x2

12 SS remaining

The problem is that 12 SS remaining is illusive. It's really more like "I want to spend exactly 10 SS" because I feel like 5 SS is my sweet spot with Dreamer (where I don't have too little nor waste by taking too many). The problem is, with this setup, I really lack a frontline/resilience/damage, ESPECIALLY without Teddy. Once Teddy either goes down or gets paralyzed/buried, I suddenly lose all momentum and get placed on the back foot, resulting in it being WAY too easy for my opponent to kill off my fresh summons.

Any list advice? Am I maybe summoning too aggressively too quickly? I try to summon 3 models (Lilitu, preferably Lelu, and whatever I have cards for) on first turn, and they are usually dead by the end of second or third at the hands of a strong, knowledgeable opponent with little fear of retaliation (by which I mean either good cards or enough SS to survive a single Teddy charge). On second turn I try to summon 2 models and Empty Night something else, resulting in 4 Waking and Chompy coming out, but lately its been backfiring because chompy doesn't do much other than move to reposition Dreamer, and when Chompy comes out I'm unable to Accomplice one of my summons (preferably a Stitched) for a quick heal and damage. Should I try summoning just twice per turn, ending with 2 Waking at the end of Turn 2, allowing me to maybe walk or Empty Night more, and plan for Chompy to come out on Turn 3?

Widow Weaver sounds SO good on paper. She has an immovable way to lower enemy WP, she exhales terror to try to paralyze enemy models with horror duels, and she's just resilient enough to survive an attempt to kill her quickly. She also helps a little with card draw, and speeds up a few models.

When I first read her card, I couldn't believe how powerful of a control piece she was. But each time I try to fit her into my list, she seems to be competing with other models that provide comparable benefits.

1) If you need area lockdown, look no further than the Mysterious Emissary. The Web markers might give -1 WP, but without something to take advantage of this low WP, WW is just sitting there throwing our a TN 13 horror duel or two every turn with some minimal ping damage. The Emissary, on the other hand, for only two more points:

Has area lockdown in a larger AoE that causes significant damage (1/4/5), immediately dissuading models from entering.

Has an attack that not only does decent damage but also can remove conditions and scheme/corpse/scrap markers.

Can summon changelings.

Has much more resilience thanks to high defensive stats and generous built in heals - thus can actually sit on the front lines and not directly behind them.

Overall, I think that the Emissary provides better area control and better tools to impact schemes and also helps deal with conditions. Not to mention the Emissary only gets better with it's free upgrades, like Pandora's which can keep it at Armor +2 with a nearby Waldgeist or Zoraida's which helps it stack the deck and lets Zoraida obey from across the board. The only downside is that your own models are not immune to the area control, so be careful not to get pushed or lured into your own hungry land markers.

2) If you're taking WW just to screw with enemy activations and try to paralyze as much as possible, you might be better off with Lust. Lust may not paralyze, but she does completely screw enemy positioning, and potentially hand out tons of Slow. She operates at a similar range (6" vs 8"), but she also comes with a (0) action long range push that can help with your own positioning or hurt your opponent even more. And to top it all off, she comes with an aura that will be damaging your opponent significantly over time if they are not careful. The only downside to Lust is how squishy she is if not played carefully, but with Df6, 8 Wd, and manipulative, she should be fine in most situations.

What do you guys prefer? Do you think these two models make  Widow Weaver obsolete? Or at least do they make you think twice before reaching for WW for area control? What does WW excel in that really beats out these two seemingly better options?

Hey so I've been enjoying my Neverborn and I'm heading to a tourney on Saturday, but no one near me plays Ressers so I'm a little lost about what to do around them, specifically the spirit side. I used to play a little bit of Nicodem and Seamus on vassal so I'm pretty aware of what the Undead/Horror side of Ressers can do, but I'm completely blind about Spirit Molly and Kirai. I know their basic mechanics, like Molly's Black Blood Bubble and Summoning and attacks or Kirai's Ikyro and summoning and adversary and attacks and such.

Generally I just want to know what I should look out for. Should I be afraid of certain summons being near me? What puts on the damage? What ties me up? What do they use to run schemes? How scary is the Hanged, really? What can I take that will generally be pretty useful against them?

Asking mostly about Kirai, as I can more or less guess what Molly will be doing, and I've always been really interested in playing Kirai at some point anyway.

Just played a game yesterday with Dreamer. Stake a Claim and I took protect territory and deliver a message against Colette who took the same. 

I decided to try out the trapper/changeling combo, and it worked... pretry well. First turn they killed a performer (though that gave Colette reactivate) and third turn the Trapper was able to walk up and (with a lucky Critical trigger and moderate) one-shot the metal gamin that Mech Rider had just summoned without focusing. The changeling then went along and placed two scheme markers on turns 4 and 5, scoring me protect territory. Most turns the sniper shot (being at Sh 4 or 5) managed only to drain a high card or two from my opponent, and really only did super significant damage when I got the critical strike trigger (which I got lucky with this game). Interestingly enough, the Trapper is a better mid-range shooter than a sniper. With a 14" range and a built in +flip on the attack, spamming two shots seems to be better at placing chip damage and/or draining your opponent's hand, plus it gives the Trapper a really nice push after every non-crit attack, which the changeling can easily follow up on.

Overall, for 11 points, I'd say the pair is a solid investment. The only thing they lack is the fact that you don't get anything for that 11 pointd that can really supplement the front line. Halfway through the game I made a really bad play that let Cassandra breathe fire on a ton of fresh summons, killing all of them and effectively making it so my Lelu and Silurid had no incoming backup and were overextended, so I quickly lost them too. Now that all I had was Dreamer, teddy, the pair, and a second Silurid all packed into the right side of the board, I really wished I had something that could walk up and plug the giant hole that Cassandra, Mech Rider, and Howard could all easily slip through on the left. At this point I really needed a Waldgeist or something similar, but all I had was a sniper team that could barely ping 2-4 damage on my opponent. Just something to keep in mind.

However there is something that the pair wad really good at: getting my opponent  (a friend of mine) into a really bad mood. From 1st Turn all the way to about 3rd he felt like there was nothing he could do about the snipers and taking those "free" shots each turn resulted in a not so good NPE. I don't know how much I like that, considering despite always aiming to win, I also like to have high-tension games with strong opponents who are having fun and never feel like their efforts are futile and they would rather just pack up and leave. Not sure if this is an isolated case and others might react differently, but it just left a bad taste cause I want my opponent to have as much fun as I do.

Oh yea of course! I completely forgot about practically the most infamous one xD

I really like Retribution's Eye on the Convict Gunslinger because armor can completely neuter his 2/3/4 damage profile, and also his accuracy and volume of shots can see him assassinating things with defensive triggers like Riders, Dreamer, Pandora, Gremlins, etc

Oh one more important difference I forgot to mention: Range!

Trapper: Up to 28"

Convict 10"

Sue: 12"

Envy: 12"

Anna: 10" ?

McTavish: 14"

 

I think 12" is the sweet spot for not getting charged back, as most things you may want to shoot can very well have a 10" threat range on the charge. Malifaux has taught me never to underestimate those 2" that make the difference between 10 and 12 on a 3x3 foot board.

On the other hand, the Convict has a slow, so although it's harder to get him into shooting range, once he's there, he's incredibly effective with a single high crow.

Thanks for the reply man, I'm intrigued most about Sue's card draw and the ability to lay down the -flips against casting, but with how small the aura is I think the latter isn't as useful as it seems.

In my next game with a good set of schemes and strats I might use the Envy-Changeling detachment from my force. For 13ss you get Envy to walk, zero focus, then shoot, followed by the changeling zero moving, focusing, and shooting. Requires a card for focus and potentially a 7 for the changeling's move, but I think it's a very powerful mobile and self sufficient fire base.

So I've had some success using a Convict Gunslinger in Lilith Crews because of her ability to place them perfectly in range for a rapid fire, and her crew's ability to counter charge anything that comes close to stop the Gunslinger. In this way I use it as sort of a bait and switch, throwing him forward on first or second turn to put some significant damage down (and hopefully slow too!).

Over time I've come to really like using a shooting element to my list, so I've taken time to think about our options (I don't like Angel Eyes or Hans so I'm not including them in this list):

Changeling: 4 (Needs mimic target)

Trapper: 7

Doppelganger: 7 (Needs a mimic target)

Convict: 8

Sue: 9

Envy: 9

Anna Lovelace: 10

McTavish: 11 (10 with Zoraida)

I am most intrigued with Changelings. A 4 stone model that can copy any shooting model's attack, even at only Sh4, is a cheap and effective force multiplier.

Each of the above shooting models add something different both by themselves and with Changelings:

Trapper: Built in +flip, Longest Range

Convict: Built in +flip, Sh6, Extra Shots, Slow Trigger

Sue: Built in +flip, 3-4 min damage, LOTS of utility. Changelings can't use triggers so only get 2/3/4 damage.

Envy: Built in +flip, mobile (can move and focus/shoot), 2/5/6 damage, somewhat tanky, arguably the most synergistic with a changeling.

Anna Lovelace: Shoot into Engagement, 3 min damage, pushing and placing denial, some utility, decently tanky.

McTavish: Ignore Cover, Shoot into Engagements, mobile (free push, decent Wk, doesn't need to focus) 2/4/6 damage, some utility, some denial, strong in close combat, somewhat tanky, requires markers and suits in hand for best results 

Anyone have any luck using these, with or without Changelings? I'd love to hear some tips and tricks.

Particularly I want to hear about Sue. He seems so good and he can do so many things but in practice does it work out as well as one would like? 

One more thing, do you guys think that Trapper+Changeling has made McTavish a slightly worse choice generally? For the same cost you get to start shooting and gain board control on turn one and get an extra activation, but lose the damage and board control that McTavish can provide in the midgame. My biggest trouble with McTavish is until he gets near some scrap or corpse markers, you're forced to spend other models' activations leaving him a breadcrumb trail of scheme markers and hoping that you flip the right suit for a push or (1) action. On the bright side, late game McTavish can eat enemy scheme markers, so there's that.

Anyway, just in general, share your experiences and theory with me a little. I like having a shooting attack because it makes me feel like I don't always have to chase down my opponent and can play a more balanced threat game.

Warpigs don't really work out fluidly in NB Zoraida cause of the lack of gremlins. Rooster Riders though, even for 7ss, are incredible on paper. Haven't used them yet though.

Zoraida is probably my most used master so far, so let me give some tips:

1) Iggy, iggy, iggy. This is my favorite model with Zoraida. Zoraida usually summons a Voodoo Doll first turn, Hexing the biggest target I can first turn, followed by Iggy attacking the Voodoo doll twice for 4-5 burning (try to get 5 with a tome, 6 is too much because it will kill the doll and waste 2 AP off Z to summon again.) If you relent you literally cannot miss, even on a black joker. At the end of the turn, 5 damage from burning on the Voodoo doll plus 5 damage from burning on the enemy is 10 damage. Just watch out for condition removal, wait until the opponent has activated all his condition removal before doing this. Also, take either a Nurse or Tarot Reading. This will let you heal the Voodoo doll easily (careful to work around the paralyze if you use the Nurse). Late in the game around turn 4 or 5, the Voodoo doll tends to die and I would rather spend my AP obeying or scheming instead of summoning a new one. Also most enemies are engaged, so getting Iggy to shoot could be dangerous. At this point, Iggy starts using his decent walk of 5 to scheme (in the event that I have protect territory, this is ideal and easy) or to intercept enemy scheme runners. He can also double walk up and use his -2 WP aura, although I've never done that before.

2) Mr Graves. I LOVE this guy. He's not going to hit like Langston, hes not going to tank like Joss, he's not going to push like Colette, but he can do all of these things well enough to be a versatile support/tank/threat piece for a super cheap cost of 8ss. His push also speeds up Zoraida or another model for the first turn or two with virtually no loss in AP since he also pushes himself.

3) You have it right with Nekima/Hooded Rider. Zoraida wants pieces that are fast and can greatly benefit from a single Obey (either walking to get into charge range, or attacking with a powerful attack). Juju is slow and fragile (although he is resilient with his upgrade, he is also fragile on a single life) and he wants to be placed in base contact with enemies to flurry on them, but is WAY too slow to be able to achieve this and needs Zoraida to waste tons of AP to help him get there. I think Bad Juju is better with Lilith who can guarantee him a spot in the center of the enemy crew, rather than Zoraida who has to walk him 2-4 times to get him there.

4) Snipers suck. Remember that you can stay out of sight of them or try to grab hard cover so that even with Focus, they will probably be stuck at a negative damage flip and deal 2-3 damage per turn, which isn't so scary. Remember to play with enough terrain! About 1/3 of the table should be terrain and at least half of that should be LoS blocking and/or hard cover.

5) You already mentioned this, but Z is SO SO SO good at scenario play. Give models actions to interact, obey enemies to move them off of objectives late in the turn tof deny Turf War, Guard the Stash, etc. Take Tarot Reading and around turn 4 or 5 just move once into range of 3 or 4 markers and move them around. This has given me a 4 VP adjustment in games before because it affects ALL scheme markers, friendly and enemy.

6) One last thing, build you'd crew to the scenario. Some of the things I said may or may not be better or worse in different games. Other things I like to do include taking a model with a gun action (I use a Convict Gunslinger, Angel eyes can work) and obeying him to move and shoot early in the game, forcing my opponent to come  close and engage him, and then charging in with Graves or Hooded. It's a pretty simple bait and switch that usually ends in a favorable trade of models (either you kill a weak model of his, or a strong model of his kills the Gunslinger and you kill his strong model)

I could write more if I kept picking my own brain but that's all that came to mind so far. Happy Hexing!

Is the Trapper strategy a little *too* mean? I mean with a Trapper and a changeling, that's easily 4 focused shots you're throwing across, ideally two with Sh5 and +++, one with Sh5 and ++, and one with Sh4 and ++.

That seems like something that would raise a few eyebrows and get someone labeled as aiming for a NPE. It just seems like it's way too easy to blow something off the board on first turn with very little room for counterplay.

sooooo....?