gozer

Thank you for the quick reply! If you are still interested in Vincent or any of Reva's crew please let me know what plastic Neverborn models you have available to trade!

Where does it say Demise can only be used once per turn? I don't see anything on Demise in the rules manual and Killjoy's ability doesn't have that limit.

Indeed! It would be SO easy to errata though: Walk This model moves up to its Movement (Mv) in inches. This move cannot be used to leave an enemy model’s engagement range if the enemy model is engaged with this model.

It 100% needs an errata. The idea that a model can't walk outside of any enemy engagement range regardless of whether it's in line-of-sight (and thus engaged) is ridiculous. If my model is on one side of a 1" iron wall (for kicks imagine wall is Ht 100 and 100" long) and yours is on the other and they both have a 2" engage range and neither have LoS to each other, neither of them can walk out of the other's engagement range. That. Is. Crazy.

It happened in my first M3E game. Opponent was playing Tara and I took the deliver a message scheme on her. Either she or one of her models buried her and we were both a little confused!

I did, and updated my post accordingly. I made a mistake because I didn't realize walk specifies leaving engagement RANGE, which is literally the most ridiculous thing I've read about M3E yet. How can you be UN-ENGAGED with a model while simultaneously be UNABLE to walk away from them? It's insanity.

@Maniacal_cackle Based on the rules Adran referenced, let's use this hypothesis: Euripides is engaged with Lady Justice (within 2" and line of sight). Lady Justice's longest is 2" and Euripides' Mv is 5". There is a blocking Ht 6 wall nearby. Euripides walks behind the wall in such a way that he never moves more than 2" away from Lady Justice. Lady Justice loses line of sight to Euripides because he's completely behind the wall. Even though Euripides is still 2" from Lady Justice, since Lady J no longer has line of sight the two models are no longer engaging. HOWEVER, Euripides still can't walk further than 2" from Lady J because walk specifies engagement RANGE not engagement. TL:DR - The rules for walking on page 22 are INSANE from a "rules as intended" perspective. One model could be on the inside of a "blocking" window-less brick house and another model could be outside. The two models could have no line of sight but if either of them are within the range of the other's , they can't walk outside of that range? What in the actual fuck? Edits: I thought it couldn't be like it is but it do.

The schemes Deliver a Message and Take Prisoner have an end of the game condition that states something to the effect of: "...if the secretly chosen model was killed by a model which was friendly to it, gain 1 VP." Bury rules on pg 34 state "If a model is buried when the game ends, it is killed." Per the Killed rules on pg 25: "Killed models are always considered to be killed by the model that generated the Action or Ability that killed them (as well as by that model’s Crew). If a model is killed by another effect (such as a Condition or Hazardous Terrain), it is not considered to have been killed by any player, model, or Crew." So, is a model that dies at the end of the game because it was buried count as a being killed by the Action or Ability that buried it? Or, is the buried model not considered to have been killed by any player, model, or Crew because dying due to being buried at the end of the game counts as a "another effect"? This is pretty important for those two schemes because a player with bury-on-demand actions (e.g. Death Marshall's, Tara's Crew) could easily deny the end VP points, simply by burying their own model and letting them die at the end of the game.

@Morgan Vening, this might be a solution: Check out "Actions Generated by Effects" rule on pg 34. "Many effects in Malifaux, (such as Actions, Abilities, and Triggers) can cause a model to take an Action. When this happens, the new Action is always resolved after the previous Action is completely resolved, including any “After Resolving” effects, but before any other new Action can be taken. Actions generated in this way follow the normal sequence for Actions and do not count against a model’s Action limit." That last sentence is the kicker. Killjoy's ability causes him to take an action and since abilities which cause models to take an action "...follow the normal sequence for actions..." it would stand to reason that Killjoy does not die, heals 4, and finally the bury effect is ignored since he is already buried.

@Skillmatic thank you for your patience. I completely forgot I put this up here! Is the plastic primed Hooded Rider assembled?

Other than what's available on the website (and I suspect the soon-to-be-released Neverborn Book), is there any lore or foreshadowing of Euripides out there? It'd be chilling (haha) to see a mention of Rasputina sensing a strange, ancient being - outside of December's influence - awakening in the ice. Or, perhaps, an off-handed mention by Titania about potential reinforcements slumbering in the mountains. Anything, really!

Are Nightmare Boxes like Brine and Bones available online during Gencon also?

I had previously dismissed this one out of hand because of the summoning, but the models are great looking and the deck control sounds intriguing. I'll take another look, thanks! I don't disagree with any of those points. The purpose of the exercise was to identify whether Wyrd has engineered some masters to be relatively "complete" regardless of whether they have keyword models with them. There are a significant number who would perform perfectly well with a full crew of non-keyword models (i.e. in faction/versatile)

Hey, I didn't notice that! Pretty cool. Yeah that's a little better then. I agree with you in general, you don't need to have ALL options to use all abilities. However, in the case of Lynch in order to use all of his abilities you do NEED to take at least 1 Honey Pot minion. However, I want to build a Lynch crew without Honey Pot minions (which is perfectly legal and thematic in M3E), I lose access to one of his abilities. This sucks. Nope, I don't prefer this at all. Nor do I think I implied it in any way. I'm sorry I wasn't more transparent. Let me use the Tara example above. Tara's "gimmick", if you will, is burying. Narratively speaking, buried models are interacting with the place the tyrant Obliteration has been imprisoned. I would prefer a Malifaux where I'd be able to grab Tara and ANY model that can bury and build a crew around that gimmick. The keyword system kind of does this, but - in my opinion - doesn't go far enough. More models need more keywords. Whatever our personal opinions, there are many fewer thematic (or even "narrative") combinations of masters and models than there were in M2E. However, that's another discussion entirely. It's better because of how bundling and costs work. Sonnia in M3E is balanced AROUND having summoning. In M2E that balance was offloaded onto her upgrade. If M3E Sonnia did NOT have summoning, some stat or combination of stats would be stronger or she might have another ability. You are paying for that summons when you choose her as your leader, whether you take advantage of that ability or not.

Out of personal curiosity, I decided to look at the M3E masters to see which ones DO NOT require another model with their keyword in order to use all of their abilities: Cornelius Basse, Nellie Cochrane, Reva Cortinas, Euripides, Titania, Zoraida, Rasputina, Kaeris, Mei Feng, Captain Zipp, Youko Hamasaki, Lucas McCabe, Brewmaster, Mah Tuckett. I don't know if this list will surprise you, but I was impressed there are FOURTEEN masters can use all of their abilities without requiring their keyword. I should also clarify that I don't necessary dislike models that have actions that only affect models of their keyword - merely that I dislike that specific mechanic and would prefer not to be limited by it. Anecdotally, my most played crew combo in M2E was: Tara, Killjoy, Bete Noire, Death Marshall. Ironically, in M3E, none of those models can play together in any combination. Also, none of those models required any other specific models to be effective. However, they are 100% thematic due to the bury synergy. My point is, there were a lot more opportunities to construct your own interpretation of a theme in M2E and a big part of that reason was because many models (and masters) were empowered by the options they could take, not limited by them. This is a PERFECT example of my concern. Sonnia's summons in M2E was completely optional because it was on an upgrade with an associated cost. In M3E her summons is bundled up into her base kit. In M2E, instead of spending SS on her summons upgrade you could potentially hire another model or have a bigger SS pool to start. You could run a Sonnia with ZERO Witchling Stalkers in M2E and she could use ALL of her abilities. In M3E, Sonnia is a summoner. You don't get to make the choice for her not to be a summoner. If you want to use ALL of her abilities to her fullest you MUST have Witchling Stalkers (in addition to ALL other possible Witchling models she might want to summon). I don't like being required to bring in specific models in order to take full advantage of everything a model offers. I'm not saying I'd never play Sonnia or she isn't fun, but I dislike that meta change in M3E. You might also be surprised to know I appreciate almost all the other M3E changes. This is one of the very few that I don't like.

I would consider it! Vincent is put together and grey primed but completely unpainted. Which Neverborn models you have in a similar condition?

I detailed that in reply to a very similar question above. In short: I don't like any models that *require* other specific models to use their ability(ies). Synergies are great! Keywords are okay! What I don't enjoy are models who are literally only partially functional without owning/having additional specific model(s).

Thank you for the reiteration. I do understand this rule. My concern was if I had a crew deployed that was not using those models Lynch summons, I would then need to make sure I buy them in addition to what I'm playing with. That's what I don't really care for.

That's right! I dislike Ironsides for exactly the reason you described. I don't care for models/abilities that "pigeon-hole" the player into taking specific models. Keywords are fine because they are recommendations - you are encouraged to take them, but your crew can be just as effective without any keyword models. I absolutely adore the versatile keyword for this reason. Abilities like those you mentioned on Ironsides and summoning are straight up "You Better Own These Models!" commandments because if you want to take full advantage of a models said ability/summon, you NEED to have whatever models that ability/summon requires. That sucks to me because it limits my agency as a player. I get that Wyrd does this as way to limit summoning and those model-specific abilities because they are so powerful. However, as a matter of personal preference, I'd rather just avoid those limitations entirely and not play with models who suffer them.

Hmmm. There is one big assumption being made here: The crew in question is being played around keyword models. Let's imagine my preferred "go to" Lynch crew includes an Emissary, Samurai, Geisha and a couple Tanuki - mostly non-Honey Pot models. Now, in order for me to play that preferred crew to its fullest, I also need a full set of keyword models if I want to make full use of Lynch. Ideally - and money, time and effort not withstanding - we would all have a full complement of every concievable model combination eligible to our faction/master combination. However most of us don't. The crux of the issue is this: if I want to utilize Lynch as a master to his fullest capability as a model, I NEED to have all his eligible summons ready to go. That requisite doesn't necessarily exist with non-summoners. It CAN but it doesn't have to. Hopefully that makes more sense?

I appreciate the distinction between those masters who are primarily summoners and those who summon on occasion. To clarify, my issue with summoning isn't the mechanic itself - it's the meta logistics of requiring a plethora of various additional models to take advantage of the summoning, should it occur. For example: Lynch can summon any Honepot Minion up to cost 5. This means in addition to whatever crew I field I need 1+ depleted and beckoner. Ideally I'd want 2 or 3 of each - potentially more than my initial crew! I know it's not a requirement to prep summon models like this but in order to take full advantage of summoning, that's what the game calls for...and I HATE it! Rest of the core rules rock!

Title says it all. Photos available if you have the requested models to trade.

I started Malifaux with 2nd Edition and my first Master was Jakob Lynch - a choice borne of a love of Lovecraftian Horror and hand/deck manipulation. Now, with M3E, I'm wanting to do a return to form. However, besides wanting to play something new, Lynch has turned into a summoner - a mechanic I don't enjoy at all! So, I went looking for a master that messes with the hand/deck in interesting ways and was as monstrous or horrifying as possible. I think I found exactly what I was looking for: Euripides! However, before I take the plunge and spend over $100 on that Old Ways giant, his cyclopean pals and a fistful of ice pillar markers (how many will I need!?!) are there any other masters out there with heavy deck/card manipulation and (preferrably) a monstrous theme?

Thanks for the quick replies! You rock! Do you guys know when Gen-con Pre-releases are typically added to the store? I want to make sure I get my order in before they sell out!

Is it possible to purchase a GenCon Pre-Release Box without going to GenCon? I'd like to get my hands on the Euripides Box! Thanks!