Ludvig

Thank you both! I really dig your painting.

@ Valhallan: Did you scratchbuild Sues guitarr?

Hey!

I have tried to find examples of how the TTB sets look built/painted before i buy them both but have only found one or two models and Gmort's unboxing article. I would really love to see any models you guys have come up with!

Papa doesn't target with his pulse. Attack actions require a target by default, tacticals only target if they say they do.

Hahaha, I am seriously digging your posts.

Thanks, likewise! You and a few other usual suspects really make these forums a treat to hang around.

Da Git: Would love to hear how it goes if you actually get this list on the table. I haven't had a chance to play Exorcists since I rarely proxy stuff but I want them to be awesome.

I like the theme! Not sure about the Exorcists since they only benefit from attacking undeads in melee and their own aura prevents them from declaring triggers if they are near McMourning and getting undead themselves.

I'd probably switch one Exorcist for Papa Loco so the Judge can have + to dmg flips and be able to cheat in that 8 dmg without having to focus. 2x 8 dmg is better than 1x 8 dmg

@Ninja: I think they push themselves around in a very similar fashion but sure, McMourning gets to give away AP and help with interacts which Perdita doesn't.

Comparing obey to machine puppet isn't 100% easy. Obey can use Sebastian's Bloody Harvest while he is in the middle of his own crew (not even an attack so can be repeated). Obey can use Langston's decapitate trigger against Hoffman's own crew. You can also move a model threating something from a good spot so that it is instead in the open or engaging Francisco with Diestro. Half the Gremlin faction has dumb luck . Paralyzing through horror duels is also nice.

Sonnia might suit you better without a heavy burning crew since it's usually not even worth it to try to get burning on stuff. Activate her when you see an opportunity, do one focused attack and then wall of all but one enemy model. Instead of burning try Watchers since they do exactly what burning does for her plus they are very good schemers.

I think that a lot of successful ranged crews have ways of pulling out of melee or ignoring that restriction when targeting. It's not hard to avoid a charge if you have other models blocking the charge lane or can create a wall (like Sonnia and Rasputina). Sometimes ranged attacks seem weak to me too and Ican't decide wether headhunter is a declaration of war or a fun challenge.

If something following this sounds hostile I apoligize, it's hard to proof read from a phone but please take the following as earnest questions and reflections without any malicious intent. I am in no way perfect, just trying to help.

I would like to know what melee masters you play since you find several strong ranged ones are "too straight forward" and consider Perdita a master without tricks. What do you consider a trick if not pushing around everything, preventing interacts (ok, needs Nino but still) and having the obey ability? Also: a lot of Leveticus players seem to make an awful lot of ranged attacks with him, why is he not in the ranged category? (He sure is tricksy and highly competitive)

What is it you want the ranged guys to do that wouldn't be boring? When I think awesome ranged master, shooting things dead before they reach melee is sort of what I expect. You also need to block charge lanes (like sonnia) or have pushes (like perdita) since you can't shoot far like in for example 40k. Another good support for a ranged master is a somewhat slow model that hits like a truck if they try to engage your ranged threat.

If you want to like Sonnia but don't like her crew you could play her without her crew. Samael needs burning but she really doesn't and you are probably better of without that 9stone paper dragon who never survives turn 2 . Play Sonnia with a lot of constructs/family/guardsmen or Perdita with 1-2 of your regular family and the rest something different and you might find a playstyle you like better. As for the enemy getting all his schemes done before dying: try something that removes markers (for guild: try the executioner and hold him back so you can trail of gore through all the scheme markers when some threats are removed).

I also think it's a trap to think that you have to play the best master for a strategy. I frequently decide on which master I will play a day or two before the actual game since I have something new painted. Play the same master for 10+ games in a row and experiment to try and find new solutions. I find that I always need to see what happens on the table with an actual opponent that has a reaction and I spend A LOT of time theoryfauxing.

Does anyone use Justice's "with me" as movement support turn one? If you have the judge and a few death marshals you could get them up the board by charging one of your own models. I have never played her but the other thread got me interested so I have her assembled now. On a strategy that so heavily demands that the enemy comes to you she should have a target rich enviroment turn 2 even if she just charged + walked turn 1. If you want the Judge could pull her up after himself as well.

P 39:

The once per turn actions box tells us all once per turn abilities are just for that model so models that copy actions can take them in addition to that. Models that do obeys "uses up" the action for the obeyed model.

Good call on the walk Solkan.

As for attacks I guess that any targeting duels are not strictly speaking "the action's duel" but rather the terrifying abilities duel that just occurs during the action so I'm not even sure you could spend it on the terrifying/manipulstive etc. even if you wanted to.

He can't summon if he isn't on the table. Seamus + the copycat can be anywhere on the table t2 and put holes in stuff if I am not mistaken?

@DeathTrout. We cynics were picturing some poor 10 year old and a maniacally cackling father. I might just disregard your answer and keep living in my own world

@Gideon: Why not? You get plus to the duel and damage flip of the action. In a walk the only possible duel is more or less horror. I guess you are talking about attacks and resulting targeting duels?

Hm... Does a model flip it's own damage for hazardous terrain? Cause spending an enemy model's focus and moving into hazardous with obey...

Wow! Talk avout teaching him early that life is cruel and horrible...

Thanks guys, speedy replies as always!

I haven't played much with the family models before since I don't have them painted but that should hopefully change this summer. Will have to give them a try, they do get a lot of praise here.

Hey friendly guildies! I have limited experience with Stake a claim so I thought I'd ask how others get it done.

Since I also play Neverborn I guess I am looking for a way to keep an even pace with 2 silurids since they get one marker per turn and silurid.

I can see McCabe pushing people with upgrades which is very efficient. He could also make someone reactivate.

Lucius could use Commanding presence and Issue command to get one minion who moves far enough to place a claim each turn but he can't get two down and it requires him using 2 AP (1,5 if you would have walked anyway).

Hoffman could have the mod. upgrades in combination with using machine puppet to move the upgraded models but that takes two of his own AP which seems like alot.

Does anyone have any good tips? Preferably AP-effective. Or do you just deal with beeing 4VP down and try to prevent schemes/kill the silurids?

While I agree about 0 wounds comes before being killed the actual games designers have in the FAQ put in a wording that tells us that they do not consider this the same way as most (of the very vocal part at least) of the community. This to me is a problem for future rulings. But I am in no way advocating their interpretation and will keep playing the way I feel is right.

The fact that the exact timing of damaging/suffering damage/reduced to zero/killed is the cause of at least one long ass post every month should make it worthy of the title frequently asked question if you ask me. Who here would be angry and/or dissapointed if the general part of the FAQ adressed and clarified what exactly "killed" is and how these (and possibly other) very common timing points interacted? It would save us the hassle of a lot of these threads and I think it's a lot easier for a new player to just hear "Read up on the killed timing in the FAQ because the rulebook was sloppy on that part". The alternative is for every newer player to start this thread and just go, "riiiight, I get it, I think" after a long thread where the tone sometimes turns hostile. Future printings of the book would quite possibly have the updated text from the start. This is a little off topic but I think the original discussion has locked itself in a standoff.

Right now we have reached a point where every group will have this thread available to interpret the rules to their liking. A future TO will probably be confronted with this exact issue and have to make an on the spot judgement call without taking 40 minutes to read and disassemnble the arguments in this thread since there is no time. If the issue is brought up in advance they may create their own FAQ for the tournament much like what happened in the 40k scene (at least in sweden) where the active tournament players did their own FAQ that sometimes contradicted the official one but always superceded it. That also worked out but gave the players and TOs another document to read. I can definetly see this happening again if the Malifaux scene grows and gets more tournament focused.

The big question to me is why NOT put a better definition of killed and expand the timing points in the FAQ?

@all moderators: I'm sorry if I end up derailing this further, please change it into a new thread rather than just delete it if you feel it necessary.

Sorry for the wall and the caps. Its meant as emphasis, not screaming but Im on my phone so cant put it in italics.

I find the really troublesome part or this that the FAQ actually makes a broad statement that reducing to 0 and killing is the same timing. It looks like everyone arguing against this rules interaction does so because they do not see the two as the same timing. I know I would interpret this as Izamu triggering first off the 0 wounds and seeing that as a different timing than killed. I can however see the argument made on the other side in this thread.

If the two are in fact the same timing which the FAQ seems to use as a basis for the other interaction this leads to an awkward situation. And the FAQ basically says that you should interpret those timings as the same which is impossible to disregard if the designers of this game thinks that's how it should be resolved. So then we go: Both models have abilities timed with this exakt same timing point (reduced to zero/killed). Timing on p 46 says resolve the acting models ability first. Vik is acting so we resolve her ability first. Vik heals from her ability, make flips for that etc. NOW Izamu gets to resolve his ability AFTER Viks is completely done and flips have been made. His ability changes his state FROM THIS POINT IN TIME since we can't go back and put Viks card back in her control deck, Viks ability is already resolved. From this point in time she does not count as killing Izamu and doesn't get reckoning points for example.

Markers are not specifically timed but are placed "before the model is removed" (p49) which sounds like "dead last, after resolvibg all triggers and other effects" to me. They can resonably be said to be placed after you have determined how the model leaves play.

VP are not affected either way since they are calculated at the end of the turn and by that time the kill has been retroactively nullified by the sacrifice.

Now if the timing is not the same than everyone is happy since 0 wounds is first and Izamu goes first without conflict. If the timing is the same we have this mind****.

The solution seems to be to rewrite that FAQ entry.

Super thin is the way to go with white. I usually use old GW fortress grey or the vallejo equivalent as basecoat. Then wash with either a cool brown or a blue grey and then bring it back upp to fortress grey with super thin paint. Then a little fortress grey + white until you are happy.

Skin can be done in so many ways. I like vallejo pale flesh for my base. Then add a wash which could be any colour of many. Sometimes I use beasty brown mixed with the pale flesh, you can also do a reddish wash with dwarf skin or your base colour + a dark red and maybe some brown.

Looking forward to those battle reports!

Umbra: why Sidir? I thought Francisco + Judge for double pushes and el mayor was the golden standard. Is it for Promises, By you side or both?

So with you here zFiend! The old models had tons of character, the new ones may have some nice detail but lack the "feel" of the old ones.

I find it hard to compare her to both Nekima and Barbie since they seem to do such radically different stuff. Same thing with Candy, Widow Weaver etc.

The only one(?) doing a similar job is McTavish. As I already said I think McT is way better and worth the extra stones. I have never really had any problems with my Nephs splashing blood on McT since he can usually keep outside of their tiny pulse even if he is engaged to the same model. I'm sure Angel Eyes will find her own niche. I can see her carrying Obsidian Talons to give my nephs som oomph in a Lucius list, love to cheat in severe dmg with a Tot every now and then to put the fear in my opponents tot-hunters.

If you are walking up and using lobotomy with a minus for the (extremely likely) min dmg 4 you could have taken basically any guild henchman or the peacekepper which would do more damage by charging the same target and hitting twice with min 3 or 4 resultibg in 6-8 dmg. That is why people are making a big deal of wether you can focus it or not.

As the Lich said above the big deal is most likely going to be his threat range and ability to shuffle about before charging. He eill make a great schemer and can probably beat the living crap out of the enemy schemers so also denying enemy marker schemes. Only time will tell if the cost ia worth it and I'm betting there will not be a concensus

Sniping your own guys is pure genius! With finish the job on the patsy you almost have unannounced ALITS coming from nowhere!!!

Executioner okay with Lucius? On to Lucius bucket list.

That's what lackeys are for - hitting stuff! I guess that was what you were implying Admiral? If only he could also use your own markers for the Trail of Gore...

Ludvig let me know how that glass cannon list works.

Won't be able to play for a couple of weeks but after that I will try my best! You should at least be able to do Frame for Murder   Come to think of it you could stick Plant Evidence on everyone (or three models at least) and try to do marker based schemes. Maybe not a tournament friendly list but you have to have fun sometimes.

What I'm really looking forward to is the future Gremlin release Dr Grimbetter. I hear he gets a 20/50/70 damage track on a (1) action, has Nimble +5 and has the upgrade "Don't even bother" that just straight up kills any Guild models in LoS.