Parker Barrows

I'm torn. I do like that idea. I also like the idea that X has this keyword because of lazy accounts/bureaucracy.

EDIT: "Why are the Wicked dolls hanging out with the Nephilim?" "Honestly, Titania's accountants just thought it would be easier to group them together since they're small like Terror Tots." "Sometimes, I regret the centralization of power."

According to Above the Law (not including anything that is unchanged from ME2 or entries that don't have models):

Guild Investigator: Elite Forces/Guardsman

Witchling Thrall: Witch Hunter (No Elite Forces)

Executioner: Guardsman

Wokou Raider: Last-Blossom (No Bandit)

Sanitarium Workers: In the lore section, it was mentioned that they are considered Guardsman. No particular reason other than it's easier for Guild accountants to keep them on the same payroll as the Guardsmen that are protecting them and the inmates.

So, those are possible changes we'll be getting.

They'll be back soon. They were in the GenCon stuff. But since they're in the stores already, they should be back in the webstore soon (Wyrd usually gives the LGS a little bit before they start selling new stuff on their webstore).

It depends on how much do you want it now or just want it for ME3?

He's going to have at least a new Henchman (and probably something else besides Guild Guard). Dashel will likely have a new Totem and Henchman at least.

So, their ME3 boxes will likely have stuff you want regardless. That said, Lucius is a fun Master and depending on how long we have, it's not a bad investment even if the box itself has an expiration date. You'll also have extra sculpts of Lucius and Dashel at least since we've seen new Dashel art and there was a new Lucius sculpt someone took video of during Gen Con.A little harder to tell, but it looks like there will be new sculpts of lawyers and the Scribe. We don't know if Guild Guard will have new sculpts. At the very least, you'll have extra Guild Guard for summons. So, it won't be an entire loss if you wind up rebuying the ME3 boxes. But it is also something you can probably wait on if you're good only basic sculpts (which is what the ME3 boxes will be in time as the ME2 boxes get phased out).

46 minutes ago, Da Git said:

That sounds like a great list and thoughts of what he might be like.  I'd also add Austringers to that list.  Much like the Guild Pathfiner, they've always seemed like the type to spend most of their time away from the city.

Definitely. I was thinking there was one more, but couldn't think of who it is. Somehow, I forgot about the Austringers. They would definitely make sense. Especially since ME2 where they kinda separated from Lucius (one of the most fun Chronicles story with hidden messages within hidden messages). It would make sense they would leap at the chance to get out of Lucius's and his former lackey's divisions. That they fit in with Cornelius's theme just makes it even better.

11 hours ago, zurelol said:

Never understood why Executioner doesn't have keyword 😧 Hope they get Guardsmans, and I hope Lucius still get access to mimic, I bought yesterday Vogel, Tannen and Grave XD

I think they might go to Lucius. Executioner's are a part of the law, especially since Lucius will likely lose the Thralls to Sonia.

This is just theorizing. I'll get Above the Law tomorrow.

I also think he might get the Guild Investigators in his break-up with Dashel. Investigators who  plant evidence and occasionally investigate things do seem like something that might stay under the under-handed Elite Division Lucius leads.

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Must admit I forgot about the alts. Nico did get an alt less than a year ago though...

To be fair, his alt was a whole new character. It was a sign really.

9 hours ago, Mason said:

The fluff from Above the Law spells out pretty clearly where Executioners are going to wind up. ^__^

I guess I'll find out tomorrow, but is there any fluff about Cornelius in Above the Law?

My thought:

Cornelius
- I think he'll get Mounted Guards, Guild Pathfinders, Clockwork Traps, and Guild Hounds.
- Now that I'm writing this, maybe he'll get Executioners since they're supposed to be about traveling around fulfilling Guild "justice." Still think Lucius is more likely, but I could see it.
- The standards are covered already. Lady Justice is melee. Sonia is magic. Perdita is shooting. Hoffman is the buffer/support. Lucius is control. Nellie is a scheme master. Dashel is the summoner. So, what is Cornelius? With his theme and crew abilities, I think he will focus on movement manipulation. His crew has a larger deployment. His units will probably be fast (Mounted Guard, Guild Hounds) and/or be able limit enemy movement at least without cost (dust clouds, severe terrain, and I think Guild Pathfinders and Clockwork Traps will fit perfectly with that). I hope I'm right. Because that sounds awesome (surprise, surprise, I would come up with an idea I personally find awesome).

Got an E-Mail asking if my mailing info is still right. Should be coming soon. 

I'm supposed to get mine tomorrow. I'll share some info when I get a chance. 

Guild is really the only faction I don't play, but Dashel and Cornelius have got me buying into the Guild for ME3.

Regarding Rollin Black: The biggest problem is that he is a Guild win. It would be worse to take away the Mounted Guard as well.

And I don't see McCabe being able to continue using Mounted Guard since he no longer has access to Guardsmen. 

Honestly,  they should change Rollin to Cornelius. Just rename his Mounted version to something like Stan Black, Rollin's twin brother who counts as a Lone Marshal.

Would this screw TT players who bought it? Yes. But currently, Guild players are being screwed (slightly less so). Except for people play both, people are going to get screwed. I think the Faction that won the box should be able to still use it.

Regardless,  I feel for whoever will no longer be able to use a Nightmare Edition box they bought.  

6 hours ago, SunTsu said:

I cannot understand all that concerns about pass tokens...

Finally, having more bodies on the grounds means usually having more wounds and more actions (let's enter in the new wording mindset from now... ) than the opponent. Sure more models at the same cost means those ones will be more fragile and less performant than a single very expensive one, obviously. But one of the main problem in M2e was exactly how powerful out-activation (OA) was. Entire branches of ruleset and design space were closed to let the game balance OA in some way. All the GG2018 revolved around limiting OA as away to be OP. And again a relevant part of the summoning problem was caused by the OA. This forced the game in a state where, or to be competitive you absolutely needed to build a crew around summoning/OA, or the devs were forced to create patches that hinder in a way or another the game design. Examples? Stuffed piglets were nerfed so that they became unuseful at their actual cost, and the only reason was OA. Their "extinction" meant also the pigapult was pushed out of the game. OA forbid to create very cheap models, since the ony existence to get a single activation would make those models OP, while at a slightly higher cost they suddenly become unplayable...

What's this pass mechanic, from what we know/guess at the moment? If the opponent outnumber you by 5 models, you get 5 pass tokens. It's easy to guess you can spend one token to pass your turn to activate a model. The opponent still have some activations in a row, but at last you decide when he will get those activations. So this will avoid that a player can use all his insignificant activations at the beginning of the turn in order of score or do whetever he want in the end of the tun, well knowing there will be no retaliation neither any reply from the other player: this, in a game that is build around the IGYG it's a tombstone...

We don't know the details of this mechanic. For example if killing a models that didn't activate yet force the owner to discard a pass token. But I don't see any problem of using 5 PT in a row, if the opponent got 5 activations more than you...

Overmore, it opens interesting design spaces that the devs had highlighted in M3e presentation: some models or entire crews will be able to trade some activation control for some kind of power, such as Perdita's crew that can discard PT to gain focus. And also, obviously many cheap models will be very susceptible to area damage while relatively resistant to single-target high-damage attacks, and the opposite.

Sure, this means a completely rework of costs of many models. I expect that, since the OA will be not a factor anymore, bigger models would get a cost increase, while some small ones will see their cost decrease accordingly since the inherent advantage to get +1 activation will be no more so important now (malifaux rats at 1ss? stuffed piglet again back to 2ss??? ). But a major part of the beta testing I guess will revolve around this work of balancing things.

Finally, we have a lot of time to do this work and to be sure that the ruleset works and are well balanced. @Mason said the priority is on balance and fun. And this sounds as an insurance, coupled with the fact Wyrd didn't announced any release date yet. This means for me that the mind is open and the beta will be not a simple formal exercise, but a real testing for which there isn't a written conclusion in a defined time at the moment.

So, let's try to be positive and constructive, wouldn't you???

Just my small thoughts here.... 🤗

I think the concern is reverse Alpha Strike. You with the bigger Crew use all your Activations getting to the enemy. Then, the enemy can Activate their entire (or at least most of their) crew and act without their opponent interfering. It gives the person with the pass tokens more control over the tempo over the game which basically the opposite of the current situation where the player that has more activations controls the tempo.

However, if done right, I think there can be a balance so that both big and small Crews are viable. We'll have to wait and see if ME3 gets it right.

I would just apply. I can't speak for Wyrd, but I'd be surprised if they've looked at it yet. It popped out right before GenCon, then GenCon, and then GenCon orders. I'd just apply and see what happens. It's not like you'll be penalized. Just waste a little time and computer ink (or if you're like me, a buck or two at Kinko's).

11 hours ago, mrninja13 said:

Have there been any info about cover and concealment being stackable, or is it just speculation at this point? 

I would have thought that the main difference would be "obscures you and stops bullets" vs "obscures you and doesn't stop bullets", as I can't imagine something that is cover but doesn't conceal, unless we're talking about stuff like 50% or more of the model being obscured or things like that, but they're not exactly the smoothest of rules. Or am I missing something?

Got to say, the more I hear the more optimistic I'm getting towards the new edition. A few things are starting to make more sense with extra bits of info we're getting,  so I am relatively confident all the iffy issues will end up make sense too. I am even warming up to the multiple masters idea. 

Just speculation. My natural instinct is it should be something like this:

Only Concealment = Someone hiding in water that makes them difficult to see, but they are exposed when the bullets start flying.

Only Cover = A wall which makes them harder to hit, but the shooter knows exactly where they are.

Cover and Concealment = A forest where it's hard to tell where the enemy is and has plenty of trees to hide behind it.

In short, cover stops bullets. Concealment messes with the shooter's sight (this is why I think/hope it will be area of effect like severe terrain).

I don't like the idea all cover giving concealment for two reasons.

1. You could make the same argument that cover removes line of sight against the model. The shooting model can't see them. To me it makes the same amount of sense (and honestly, from a non-game mechanic perspective, I totally see it).

2. The biggest reason I really don't like this idea is because they are two different names. Hard and Soft Cover are mechanically link, and it makes sense within the game since they're both called "cover." Two different names to me suggests two different mechanics which can but don't have to overlap. If they do, I'll be hoping they change the name to link them.  It'll be much easier to teach a newbie that "Cover gives and Hard Cover gives to the attacker and +2 DF to the Defender" than "Concealment gives  and Cover gives +2 DF to the Defender and remember that Cover also gives Concealment." It seems less intuitive which seems the opposite of what ME3 is trying to be.

It's not huge deal to me. But if they are mechanically linked, I would like to see the naming suggest it. It just makes sense to me.

Yeah. It definitely changed my buying habits. This year (from this GenCon to next GenCon) has become the year of the Guild. Super excited about Dashel and Cornelius. They look awesome, and I like the themes. I play everything but the Guild (Lady Justice was the only non-Dual Faction Guild master I have and that's because I bought her super cheap from a friend). I was going to have a year of the Guild a little while ago, but physical and financial problems caused to stop buying anything, and my plan to spread into Guild kinda of died out. But with the ME3 announcement of the promotion of Dashel and a frontier Master, my interest in the Year of the Guild sparked again.

I'm not too bothered if I never play something I buy. I have enough to never buy more models again (indeed, I've had some for years that I haven't played with yet). I'm a collector. So, I just like having the models even if I don't have the immediate intention to play them. But for ME3, I actually am buying them to play rather than just collection. Or more like trying to build up my Guild so I have plenty of options (including more Masters since sticking to two who do indeed seem awesome seems a bit limiting).

44 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It probably won't be as straight forward as "M2E Soft Cover = M3E Concealment" and "M2E Hard Cover = M3E Cover + Concealment" but I suspect that there will be ways to setup situations that a model can take up a defensive position that will grant them both.

My guess is that Cover and Concealment are going to be separate from any terrain attributes that may grant them. Abilities like Howard Langston's Steam Cloud ability seem like they'd be more straight forward if they just gave models in an aura Concealment instead of creating an area of Soft Cover.

I have no problem it overlapping sometimes. My forest example could easily be cover+concealment. Apparently, I just misunderstood.

Yeah. But I find it's little easier since concealment can be argued for any cover if allowed, and it's a much bigger difference which will lead to more of it.

That's why I'm hope it will be area terrain like forests and the like. Also, can't write on the shop's terrain.

2 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

1. Meh. So now the contest becomes on who has the better hand...also models like Doppelganger and Trixiebelle lose a lot of usefulness? 
2. Will have to see what Pass Tokens are used for, but just outright canceling the advantage of out-activation seems a bit hard. 
3. Agree. Actually really like this.
4. 50/50 here. Models sticking around is kinda nice, but on the other hand, some models becoming near-unkillable will be annoying. I always liked that in Malifaux, pretty much anyone could be killed if enough effort was put - and this was also because damage sometimes was pretty high. Also sometimes crazy random stuff happening with jokers, flipping three severe cards on a double negative damage flip (it happened!!) etc. 
5. A negative modifier was a 90% fail without focus, and the model in cover usually didn't even have to spend a card to make it so. This made the odd "hail mary" shot pretty useless (unless, again, one was willing to spend 2AP for 1shot). A +2df on the other hand can be very easily circumvented: in fact, sometimes the shooter is already at an advantage (say Sh6 vs Df 5 or Df 4) and so it looks like your cover will do absolutely nothing against the shot. I'm curious to playtest this, but I think the +2 Df means models in cover will be hit pretty much all the time, and the only difference the cover will make is that the attacking model may have to use a card.
So yeah I think shooty crews if anything are getting a boost...also with the reduction of engagement ranges!
6. Agree.
7. Not sure.
8. Agree.
9. I actually liked Peons - the idea of having super weak models that usually couldn't even interact but somehow still contribute to the crew's victory...

It looks like overall there's a shift towards removing randomness from the game (see the change to initiative, the less damage, the nerf to Red Joker etc.) which kinda goes against the idea of streamlining that is supposed to be the main goal...on top of losing the original Malifaux "Bad Things Happen" flavor. Mmm

1. It's a new edition. I'm sure a lot of models will have new roles, these two included.

2. I agree which is why I'm cautiously optimistic. But I have enough faith in Wyrd to believe they will get this to work.

4. I am assuming that the tanks unkillability will likewise be powered down. If not, then that could be an issue.

5. This could either way. As people have previously pointed out, there were enough ways to get focus and/or positives that it would often ignore the cover. So, while I agree that in a vacuum that a negative is a bigger penalty, with all the positives to shooting there is out there that +2 DF is harder to ignore overall.

9. I actually agree with the sentiment. I just don't think it's that big of a deal to start calling them minions. I still want Depleted to be cheap pain in the asses that can't Interact.

2 hours ago, WWHSD said:

We don't know how Cover and Concealment will work together. If a model that would have had Hard Cover in M2E benefits from both of them they get quite a bit harder to hit and damage. 

I like the idea of +2Df and ato the damage flip from cover. It makes models harder, but not impossible, to hit and makes it more likely they they'll just take minimum damage. Low Df models in cover were essentially guaranteed to be hit by a model with an attack stat of 6 that spent a focus. Cover makes it more likely that the defender wins the duel. Models with Df 6 get really hard to shoot with cover.

I dislike this. If concealment is just hard cover, then it should be said. I see concealment more like something like being in the woods or the water.

Also, I see it becoming much more of a headache when defining terrain than in ME2 since the difference between a neg in damage is smaller than adding a neg to an attack. Add to the fact that "concealment" this way is much more vague than Hard/Soft cover was, I could honestly see this happening and I don't want to go through it once.

Player 1: "This lone barrel is concealment and cover since my models can duck and hide from you."

Player 2: "Last week when you were playing a range Crew, you said it was only Cover because obviously some part would be sticking out of the barrel's path. The model would be poking it's head up to see the battle."

Player 1 with utter sincerity and genuinely confused: "I don't know what you're talking about. Stop trying to change the rules. This is how we always play it."

A week later...

Player 1 now playing a range crew: "So, this barrel is cover only."

If concealment is just going to be hard cover, I'd rather it be called hard cover. It's easier to define than "concealment" which some people will define as all cover. And some will define it depending on what kind of crew they and their opponent are playing.

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Not sure if this has popped up somewhere else already, but here's an excerpt from Malifaux Musings:

All initiative can be cheated.

 

You get pass tokens based on difference in activations and it recounts each turn.

 

All models outside of the Keyword get the old merc tax penalty of +1ss.

 

Damage scaled down.

 

Engagement ranges scaled down.

 

Charges are 1 AP Walks plus a single attack. No more than 1 charge a turn, barring special rules like Cojo.

 

First Master hire is free, others pay the cost. Totems are free with their Master. No generic totems.

 

Each faction gets Versatile models, like the Effigy, Emissary and Riders, which don’t pay the tax with any Master.

 

              Peons are no longer a thing. All non minions are rare 1 unless specified otherwise

1. I like this. I have had many, many games come down to who gets initiative on a certain turn. I'd rather have some control. I may still have lower card than my opponent, so luck is still a factor. It just won't be the only one which is good when it can be so important.

2. I'm cautiously optimistic. Honestly, it makes me feel like I'm more likely to want my models to actually do something rather than just wasting a turn since I'm not really gaining an advantage for it.

3. Seems alright as long the themes come out right.

4. I'm fine with this. Models sticking around longer like a good thing.

5. Well, since shooting is taking some hits (+2 DF to cover for example), it seems like this will help keep it balanced. Really, it seems like models will be surviving much more this Edition.

6. I like this. It always sucked to throw away an AP just because you needed to kill that one almost dead enemy. This gives a lot more options.

7. Free totems are nice. It makes them feel much more part of the Master which I whole-heartedly support. I (almost) always play my Master's Totem no matter how terrible it is. Though I agree with others, I want any other Masters taken by the Crew to have to pay for their Totem (no extra cost though). Since Totems DO have a cost, I suspect they will cost for non-Leader Masters (though not sure if there will be a tax).

8. This is good.

9. This is also good. Peons were always so few it felt weird having a special class for super weak models. Just have them become minions.

1 hour ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

Having more models will always be powerful in Malifaux, but it seems like a lot of the combos that people have pulled their hair out because of in M2E (like the rat engine) have revolved around abusing it.  I think it's a reasonable thing if the devs say that activation control is not something to build the game around.  Malifaux' tagline is 'Bad Things Happen,' not 'You Will Be Out-Activated and Your Master Brutally Slain by Victoria on Turn One Because Guild Don't Have a Proper Summoning Master.'

ME3 will fix that. ;^)

I'm interested. I just picked up Perdita a few days ago to start boosting my Guild collection in preps for 3E.

6 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

The other previewed model with the two halves of a horse costume too.

That or Nellie. I think there's a good argument for either. Though now that I think about it, the same could be said for the False Witnesses too.

It wouldn't surprise me if he got the Guild Investigators. They seem like a shady Elite Division. The False Witnesses are almost certainly his.

45 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I did a bad job of reading fiction after book 4.  This has my interest.

It's a few throw away lines between Hoffman and Perdita before the more awkward part of their conversation began.

EDIT: Before I forget, I think Dashel will lose Mounted Guards, and Cornelius will pick them up.

Been rereading some fiction. In Broken Promises, Dashel was on trial taking the fall for Lucius's misdeeds. He appears next in Nemesis 2, where he has been promoted to Colonel. I think we really need a Dashel story in between these two events.

17 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

*closes stompybot ranks in front of the little mechromancer and hustles her away lest such scurrilous words reach her ears* You have your canon, I have mine....

My second-favorite change coming up for Viks (just behind ‘finally it won’t matter which Vik is which, they’ll have the same damage track’) will be that all Viks models will now be mix-n-match such that you can pick any two with an aesthetic you like. Two armored standing Viks, two battle bikini Viks, two referential Viks...

Two bunny cosplay Viks!

Going through old Chronicles and saw that Dashel had been promoted to Colonel by Nemesis Part 2 which was another hint of his future promotion. I wonder if that is his Master Rank or if he gets another one by ME3.