frumpypigskin

Wait wait wait..... How many attacks does a katashiro get when it charges from within 6" of Asami? 2? I suppose its still only 3 attacks per Activation (without triggers) but it frees up her place for greater mobility instead of sneaking in extra attacks... Maybe ama no zako makes the Katashiro do the charge for even more attacks per turn from a 5 ss min 1dmg model made from paper... Fun?

Violation of Reality

After a friendly Oni within 3 declares the Charge Action, instead of Pushing, it may place itself a number of inches from its current position up to its Mv and then take its  Action as normal.

Made To Kill

Once per Activation. After this model is placed, it may take a  Action after resolving the current Action.

 

!!!?

 

 

@Jesy Blue apparently you're so paranoid you said it 3 times. 🤔😉

Katashiro can remove numbered conditions e.g. focused, distracted. But not stunned/staggered/fast/slow.

Which happens first? The extra attack or the place?

I feel like the trigger within the first attack is the "current action" so he would place then attack again, potentially on a new, remote target? 

Thanks in advance

Has anyone had trouble getting their Foundry bubble disrupted turn 1? E.g 1st Activation McCabe net guns the whole bubble with slow and staggered? Or a beater/tar pit thrown into it?

Did you allow yourself to get bogged down? Did you just disengage/ magnetise/off the rails your scrap generator out of there and continue plan A leaving the enemy behind? 

Or did you get stuck in and take it off before proceeding with half your force?

What did you try? Did it work?

It seems this is more likely to be done to us if it's important for us to be on the opponent's half of the table for the Strategy/pool. So I'd lean toward option a with maybe leaving 1x metal gamin or something engaging the offending model but obviously it's going to depend. I'm yet to face this but my turn 1s seems to be fairly scripted so I'm concerned the wheels would fall off my game... 

I feel like, at least for Willie and shockwaves, rule as intended is that when you declare the  shockwave action you put the initial marker down following rules and LOS etc. Then do the dual;

"Shockwaves
Shockwaves Drop a 30mm Shockwave Marker on the 
table within range and LoS. When the Shockwave 
Action is fully resolved, the Marker is removed. Below 
is an example Shockwave."

Except that the rules as written are half a sentence short of saying what explicitly. It sounds implies by the "when ... fully resolved" bit

But then.... Looking at the example on the same page it obviously says you succeed then place. Oh well. We let that one slip through beta... 

***raises hand***

I had thought I could use my card but from the opponents perspective of I gave them Initiative.... See post on rules.. 

How have other people got this wrong? Anyone done it wrong in a tourney? 

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Interesting. I didn't realise this was the case. But it looks like indeed, if you win the initiative flip and give initiative to your opponent, they get to choose who flips!

I don't think there is another flip cackle. It uses whatever we just flipped to determine initiative. You only flip again if you win with the RJ and then give yourself initiative.

As an aside I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been looking at this incorrectly...

I have had no success finding an answer to this simple question using search.

I want to clarify how the location of the idol marker is determined.

First we both flip, then cheat, then we both have final dual totals and there is a winner and a loser of the flip.

The winner of the flip is the. Given a Big choice.

1) take initiative, go first, place the idol using the winning card from their perspective

2) give initiative to the loser, make them go first, place the idol using THEIR LOSING card, from their perspective?

It was the particulars of option 2 I don't think I was playing correctly and makes choosing what to do when you've lost the flip, choosing if you cheat, even MORE interesting.

Have I got this correct now?

Makes the "storm of ash" action on ash ascendant more appealing too for subsequent turns... Maybe still not the best use of his AP but if plan #1 is just to tie up some opposing models near one spot, could add to the fun.

Are there any other glass cannons Manos' upgrade makes into a better proposition?

Yep. That sounds like a combo... Good fun to try out anyway. Once Yan has activated turn 3 you can be pretty confident running over him with the wanyudo as you'd only need a 4....

Has anyone tried putting Manos' upgrade onto a Wanyudo? It strikes me as a dangerous versatile and extremely mobile piece which has its biggest weaknesses covered when in this crew (resilience). And the extra pushes and movement combined with its trample and burning path could make for an obscene number of simple duals. All this and it can still charge, push and interact at the back of the enemy crew if desired.

I'm yet to get Yan on the table so will probably stick in keyword to start with (komainu and gokudo being strong competition to receive the same upgrade) but looking forward to experimenting...

22 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

I will jump on the Mei bandwagon. She is great for Turf war as she can bring tons of mobility and some pretty survivable models who don't easily give up marker flips. She can also get in there and disrupt and get the long range assassin runs on models to get the twofer of removal and a marker flip:

Mei (0), Forgeling (0), Metal Golem (10), Mech Porkchop (7), Neil (8), Miner w/Magical Training (8) Metal Gamin (5), Metal Gamin (5), Rail Worker (5) + 2 SS

First turn the Rail Worker can Pneumatic Toss the Forgeling and  flip a marker. Gamin # 2 flips a marker, Magnetism toward the rest of the crew,  drops shielded on Neil, and drops a scrap for everyone to Ride the Rails from. With the Forgeling and the Pig or Golem you can drop scrap pretty far out to set up the Rails for getting as deep as you need. Miner can do miner things....than Neil, the Pig going fast can go deep and with Mei can strike pretty deep in their lines to attack  weak flank or go after some key targets if they have moved up any and take down  couple of models flipping markers back at the end of the turn. With 9 activations you are pretty sure of being able to keep the key models till late in the turn.

I would most likely take Breakthrough and Harness the Ley Line or Assassinate. The Gamin or Rail Worker can do any of the schemes pretty easily or fast Neil or the Pig can as a backup and with Mei, the Golem, and the Pig (an Neil if needed) in their face you are putting a lot of pressure on them quickly. You can really take any of the schemes even Power Ritual which I usually avoid like the plague in standard deployment but this crew has the speed to do it. The list starts a little light on Stones but with the Miner making more and only Mei using them it should be enough. I like Magic Training on Neil as well but with the Gamin there to get one of two Shielded on him when you can cheat the suit that is really all he needs to go deep and fast without wounding himself too much early. 

I have played a version of this in Plant Explosives with a lot of success with only minor changes and it can do Turf as easily too. 

I think im missing something... I have spent a bit of time thinking about how to optimise turn one for MEI. I don't understand how you can do some of your interacts on turn 1.

Tell me if I've got this wrong.

8" deployment zone means your models deploy wholly within 8"? 

The centre of the turf markers are 9" from the table edges. That's 15mm out of deployment zone:

9" - (30mm marker/2) - 8"

So any model would have to move a little before interacting? 

So the rail worker *could* charge from an angle to perfectly hit the forgeling at the same time as the impassable turf marker but would then be stuck behind it with no scrap to let him leap up the board the following turn. 

I was thinking more along the lines of using low rams to get extra starting scrap for 1st leap points. 

Or you could sacrifice some of the shielded from the gamin to have them do the interacts or just have a construct up ahead early so they can magnetise to the Strategy marker.

Have I missed something?

Otherwise I'm flabbergasted I never thought of shielding Niel so he can reckless for for the cost of a gamin action and no wound. That's a nice tradeoff. Especially if that's the gamin making your first scrap anyway!

I've recently picked up lynch as well an was wondering what strategy should I be looking out for to try him with first? Any schemes that he/his crew are particularly good at? I've got his keyword except Gwen and Kitty

32 minutes ago, Adran said:

Shovel faster is an attack action, so you can't target yourself with it.

Otherwise you're right. By the time he would have gained stunned he has already performed the bonus action and declared the trigger.

🙄 Should have figured there was a simple reason I didn't see this before! Thanks!

2 rail workers stand to close to a forgeling on deployment so both get burning but the 1st has it removed by the forgeling.

The 2nd moves his 10" and then uses his bonus action to target himself and remove the burning... He gets a ram for the trigger...

Shovel Faster!

: Scorched Remains

My question is 2 part... does this work and can he drop a scrap? I *think* it does and he can...

Part 1;

He has spent 2 actions then gains stunned during the resolution of his bonus action sort of doing 3 actions (as far as the newly acquired stunned is concerned)? I'm pretty sure that this works. If you did the bonus action first then you'd only be able to walk once?

Part 2 He declares the trigger before the action resolves (which then gives him stunned) and stunned only prevents the declaration of triggers not the resolution right? So the trigger still resolves even though he's just received stunned?

This let's a burning rail worker double walk then remove his own burning with a 4+  trigger to place a scrap at the end of his move as if he's got walking forge.

Finally, the stunned falls off at the end of his turn anyway?

Can anyone fault any of this? If not I'll link to this thread and discuss implications in #retnab's guide post

I was wondering if anyone had much success with yin. I've just picked up Yan Lo and am yet to try either of them but was wondering why I might take yin over Manos. I did think of maybe claim jump but take prisoner makes much more sense. He'd still have trouble getting his job done once engaged where Manos can use leap to disengage and has the regen built in without needed the upgrade.... So apart from the pull shenanigans and construction wouldn't you be better off with Manos OOK instead of Yin + upgrade for 1 more SS? Not to mention he can use SS. 

How many SS do you find yourself running with the mad hatter? What do you mostly use them for? Plus flips? Keep your master alive?

Thanks!

Hey.... With the gunsmiths grit... Why don't you have to declare what suit your adding when you declare the action? It says "when declaring an action" before mentioning final dual totals. It would be nice not to have to decide until after the flip and cheat but I believe the line about declaring the action means you have to pick first. Anyone else?

I love your breakdown of the steamfitter. I have struggled to get the most from them this edition and am keen to give them another go now!

How have people found Sandeep (or other summoners) into idols? 

On one hand you can summon in extra health and actions to move idols. On the other hand doing so gives your opponent pass tokens making it easier for them to pick where those idols get placed.

In my limited experience summoning during idols I found this (and bad 1st initiative flips) worked against me.

The wording is walk cannot leave engagement with an enemy, whether you started in engagement doesn't come into it. At no point can a normal walk leave an engagement of an enemy model. (I.e. to get past you have to go right around the outside.)

Charge is only affected by engagement when you declare it (you can't when engaged). After declaring it you can perform the push right into or through engagement ranges with no issues. This makes spacing your front line models important for blocking charges into your back line.

Also note the charge generates an attack. It doesn't matter who the target is at the end or even IF there would be a target when you push. 

2 hours ago, solkan said:

 

Minor fault.  It's 6.c.  🙃

6.b is "After killing" Triggers.  Capital T triggers.

• 6.a is any effect at all that heals or replaces the killed model.  For the most part, that's Demise effects, although it technically could be others.
• 6.b is is "After killing" Triggers.
• 6.c is is everything else

 

Haha, Capital T with italics... 🙄 

But they still both happen at the same time so as the active player lynch can pick the order? Yes?

Yes, in this case the relenting model's total "is considered to be" lower than is normally possible.

Side note, this cannot make the attacker succeed if there is a TN to the attack as the defender's stat changes, not the attacker.

Step 1 of ANY action, regardless of how it is generated, is declaring it. P23

I want to make sure this works the way I think it does.... Hypothetical;

Lynch is 6" away from teddy who has an explosives token, 3 health and brilliance 8. 

Lynch hits him with succumb to darkness, summoning an illuminated into base contact as the teddy is killed. 

There is now a model friendly to the attacker of the killed model so the explosive goes the the illuminated before the teddy gets removed.

I believe this works because the summon and the token being handed out both happen at the same time (damage timing 6b on p34)

Can anyone fault this? 

Ta

I had completely missed that Amina can spend a stone to help get obey off on an enemy, make them interact then pitch a low card to get your stone back. Neat!