D-A-C

Thank you, much appreciated.

Any ideas on 10 Thunders worth a look with Lynch crew and my base template I run that I mentioned in my last post? The problems that I have with Graves are: 1. His Cost. Maybe its just me, but with Lynch, as i said, I really have to account for every SS and every time I pick him (particular when looking unline at crew creator) I usually watch in horror as a healthy 16ss spare to buy models disappears with Graves included and suddnly I'm really limited in choices. Now obviously certain models are expensive, but when buying Izamu for Kirai, sure I spent 10ss, but I knew what I was getting and never seemed to worry in the same way I do with Graves. I think honestly Graves is a 6ss model and Tannen a 5ss or perhaps 4ss model. At those prices, 10/11ss for both, you'd see alot more Lynch crews running, whilst not making them too auto-include, because essentially I feel like they should almost work together as a 10/11ss Duo 2. His Defence ... its not good enough. He just seems to die quickly in all the games I've run him. +1 Armour doesn't make up for 4DF against range and Black Blood doesn't make up for 4DF against melee. Yes he has 9 Wds but he always seems to get chipped to death in the first few Turns and once he is down to half Wounds I find he is tricky to automatically throw into melee, which brings me to. 3. Flurry. I have yet to get this off. Again, maybe its me, but its really tricky to use as rarely are Beckoners in a position to lure things towards Mr Graves so that he doesnt need to move, at least ion the way I've been playing them. As a result he always has to move and thus bye bye Flurry. And as I said, he isn't resilient enough to last 1 round against a dedicated melee beatstick to fire of Flurry next turn. In conclusion, I absolutely love the model AND his rules. However it just never really adds up to SS worth of model when I use him. I use him alot, but when running competitive he tends to get dropped for more quantity models, because basically his costs is almost the same as x2 Depleted and they are much better at absorbing damage, getting into melee, giving Brilliance and usually exploding for 2 damage AND getting at least 1 hit for usually weak plus borning token damage whilst giving out Brilliance.

True. Ive never used Oiran, I'm just trying to toy about with possible alternate selections for the crew. I was also eying up Wastrels as I love the models as well and they could be a client at the Honeypot who hasn't taken kindly to all the ruckus being enacted by an opposing crew lol Basically at 35ss Jackob Lynch Huggy (on Table Always) x1 Illuminated - 6ss x2 Depleted - 8ss x1 Beckoner - 5ss That is my base template every game regardless of scheme or strategy. That leaves 16ss to try alternate models out. 1. A Wastrel or Oiran are 4ss options I've been looking at because of the models (I'd only use 1) 2. I love using Graves, but he isn't competitive for 7ss IMO 3. Mr Tannen sucks 4 A Ten Thunder Brother might be a good pickup (don't know much about them) but they look good and sound interesting based on their wiki. I've basically thinking of running Jacob as a 10T most games as I really like the plastics over the metal models tbh ... unless someone knows a reason this wouldn't be competitive in tournaments and such? Therefore I'm just thinking of variou combinations of the plastic models available at the moment. So ideas about that would be very welcome because I really love this crew and am thinking of making them my main unless/until other crews are converted to plastic.

Hey guys. Could someone point me to the page in the rulebook where it explains that you can have your own models draw (and thus be effected by) any willpower duels being instigated by your own models. I.e I want to lure Seamus out of combat with a Rotten Belle but he resists too high on the flip ... where does it state I can draw the duel and thus have him be affected by it without having to resort to cheating in a lower or higher card? Also am I understanding it right that: 1. If it states a model at the end of a push with the one pulling it suffers a melee strike ala Rotten Belles, that I HAVE to do this? 2. You can't draw down attack/defence duels on your own models so the attacks go through, but have to cheat them down? I.e I want McMouring to Kill a Canine Remain. After Attack/Defence flips McMourning is on CB 8 vs the Dog CB 10 I would have to cheat in a higher card for McMouring or lower card for the dog and cannot just draw the combat allowing it to go through at a double negative flip ala Willpower duels? Thanks.

Hi guys, I was just curious what you think of the following idea. Instead of running x2 Beckoners run 1 + 1 Oiran and have them work in tandem? 1. Basically, the Oiran's zero action adds +1 to the Beckoners Wp essientally making her CB7 for Spreading Brilliance. 2. They have a lure ability as well. 3. They need to get close to models to do damage so can pair with a Beckoner, staying in close (hopefully) after luring them out of position in tandem with the Beckoner. 4. They walk the same (not much, still nice considering its a synergy pairing). I can't think of much else atm lol. Its just an idea to maybe save a potential SS as I've found in Lynch crews of 25-35ss accounting for each and every soulstone counts. What do you guys think, I've never really used an Oiran before, as I said, it was just an idea I'd been contemplating cuz I like the models and because every opium den/casino needs a few ladies of negotiable affection lol.

Having played him a few times now I can say that a 6ss cache would be the best number for Lynch crews. That is 3ss for Lynch's defence/healing flips as necessary (probably never offensively unless conditions force you to do otherwise). More importantly, that is 3 SS for Huggy's offense. He needs to hit and smack around things quickly and move onto the next target IMO. He also has 2 great and one average trigger on his tendrils so burning an extra soulstone to get those off (or buff up the cb when you have a low trigger causing card) is probably needed. As a side note I still don't really know how to use Illuminated. They seem like a very weak 6ss investment. Does anyone have tips for them? At best I use them to walk with Huggy and take a wound from him as necessary and then regenerate. I don't really need them to spread brilliance as Huggy has casting expert and one of its few uses (outside of manipulating already brilliant models) is to give brilliance + that's what Beckoner's absolutely excel at ... oh and exploding Depleted . The other idea I had for a Lynch crew is what to do with Jacob? He has mostly hid in the back and did nothing in my games (can't even use dead man's hand as need to target an enemy). Now I was thinking of always walking him right up close with Huggy because: A. Huggy blocks line of sight on Jacob. B. Anything entering melee with Jccob will more than likely enter Huggys 3" Tenrdil bubble of death C. His Pistol works in melee anyway D. They can sort of support each other this way as needed E. It makes Lynch useful What do you guys think, any tips on Lynch and Illuminated? Cuz apart from both of them, Beckoners, Depleted and Huggy all work an absolute treat.

Hi guys. I recently picked up an Alt McMourning and outside of a few games when I started I've never gone back to the good Doctor, even though I probably should as he is awesome. In fact one of my favourite things about him is that he really can have all sorts of crews builds. This allows for all sorts of build, combo's and shennanigens. Anyway I was wondering if you guys could please help me try and theory maximize the potential of including Rafkin in McMourning's Turn 1 Flesh Construct Summoning? The following is a template 25ss crew I was toying and can be built upon for higher SS games or used as is in lower ones (Note I'm willing to adjust it as necessary): 25ss Crew McMourning - 7ss Zombie Chihuahua - 1ss Rafkin - 7ss Sebastian - 6ss Rotten Belle -4ss x3 Canine Remain - 6ss Goals 1. (With McMourning) First Turn Summon Flesh Construct in the most efficent and reliable way possible. This is non-negotiable, this has to happen. 2. (With Rafkin) Off the back of McMourning's summoning OR by being included in the process, leave yourself ready to summon 1 or more Guild Autopsies in the future or be setup with Posion Tokens if they do something aswell. 3.. (Optional) Try and sacrifice as little SS fodder as possible. Preferable just 1 Canine Remain + Zombie Chihuahua as materials as it would be nice to be able to still run two dogs with Sebastian for objective grabbing and utility purposes. Its not a deal breaker though and feel free to suggest a better initial base template crew if necessary. Rafkin Stats? I posted a topic on Rafkin before ( http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?38930-Rafkins-Stats-and-Abilities ) and had bought the model cheap on ebay but the sellar never sent him, so I have yet to see his card, hence someone with Rafkin experience is porbably needed for this topic. Initial thoughts/Queries are : 1. He does something with Posion Tokens (heals himself???) so maybe it would be good to get a few? He could maybe Blast damage 1 or more models in base contact with himself to kill them off and net some Poison Tokens. 2. He gets BP's off melee like McMourning, correct? He needs 4BP's for 1 Guild Autopsy, correct? So maybe this conflicts with using Posion Flask splash damage for himself as gaining BP's from melee might be better? 3. He gains 1 BP when corpse counters are discarded, correct? So having a Canine Remain give 1 or more to McMourning nets Rafkin 1BP, correct? What is the most reliable way to gain a flesh construct with McMourning that: A. Uses the minimum amount of SS fodder B. Tries to incorporate at least 1 6"movement (via Scalpel Slingin) C. Incorporates Rafkin into the Bargain I honestly don't know, I've not done many Flesh Construct summons on Turn 1, so I'm still trying to figure out the most reliable way myself lol. I do have an attempt at the end of this post though, so please leave feedback on it. What Suits/Cards + Body Parts Needed?: A1. McMourning is definately going to need a 10 Crow + possible SS flip. He needs a 10 of crows to summon, butI feel that 6 of crow upwards + a SS flip is relaible enough, and that a 9+ of crows might better saved for Rakin. A2. McMourning Needs 5 Body Parts for a Flesh Construct. B1. Rakin needs a 9+ of Crows but crucially cannot alter a low crow with use soulstones, so one of these in the control hand is probably worth saving for him. B2. I think he needs 4 Body Parts for 1 Guild Autopsy (someone with his card please check ) Some Thoughts: 1. I think Rafkin is going to have to do the killing of the SS fodder in order to maximize BP. I think firstly it needs to be decided if poison token blasts should be incorporated at all ( what the heck do they do lol!) or if he should straight up melee something in base contact First Attempt At Summoning Process: 1. Zombie Chihuahua activates in base contact with Rafkin and Canine Remian A. It then casts Wracked with Pain on Canine remain A netting 1 BP. It uses Fetch to give this to McMourning. 2. Canine Remain A activates and strikes Zombie Chihuahua weakening it down a bit off its 4wds. 3.. Rafkin activates and Melee Strikes Chihuahua to death netting 1 Corpse Counter (and 1 BP for himself?) and then finishes off Canine Remain A with his second action to get a 2nd corpse counter (and another 1 BP for himself?) 4. Canine Remain B picks up both Corpse Counters with its 1st action, uses its 0 action to give them to McMourning and moves up the board normally with his remaining action. This nets +2 BP's for Rafkin. 5. McMourning now has 5 BP (1 Wracked with Pain Chihuahua + 2 CC's) and can Summona Flesh Construct with his 1st Action, then develops normally. 6. Rafkin now has 4 BP's which is good enough for one Guild Autopsy? Summary There you have it, that's my first go at incorprating Rafkin into McMourning's summoning. Its not particularly inefficent and exchanging 3ss for a potential 10ss is no Joke, especially in smaller games. You sacrifice a bit of early movement, but not much, only Rafkin remains where he started on Turn 1. Bascially, everything else moves normally, McMourning, Belle, Sebastian, even the dog that picks up the counters advances with his 1 remaining action. Its also not very card dependent at all, basically 2 high crows (1 for McMourning, 1 for Rakin) and technically you don't even need these immediately, so you can actually not summon if you have no crows, yet still keep the potential to summon in future Turns when you have a crow. So what do you guys think of this? I love fluffy lists, but this genuinely seems competitive enough to me. Am I missing a better, more efficent way to Summon using McMourning and Rafkin? Please feel free to use different setups on this thread that use McMourning and Rafkin together in a summoning process. I would love feedback on my goals as well (getting a Flesh Construct and only using minimal sacrifical models), but if your into summoning Rogue Necromancy or mass killing canine remains for some theory benefit, as long as they involve McMourning and Rafkin please feel free to share. The point of this thread is to try and combo the two models as very few seem to do this at present.

Well, I had my first game with Jacob Lynch and I am pretty damn impressed. Here are a few thoughts. 1. Huggy - Is an absolute Beast! If you know your opponent hs no magical weapons on the board (or limited to one specific model) then you should probably start him on the board everytime. He is ridiculously hard to kill with his healing abilities and spirit half damage. Not only that, but when something gets into melee with him ... it dies. I literally wiped out a Freikorpmann, Freikorp Specialist and Freikorp Librarian during my first game with him. Even better I had the Librarian cast a healing flip on huggy by using Heed my Words which was nice lol. His Casting expert is a little deceptive as I constantly sat around thinking ... how can I use this during every turn? But I think what it is there for is to allow you to cast The Light Inside so that any enemy your about to enter melee with is going to gain Brilliance before they get smacked around pretty badly. Heed my voice is situational, but what you can do is charge an enemy model at one of his own crew (hopefully doing a bit of damage) and then enter melee with the two models thus denying two models shooting. Oh and don't forget to always position Huggy 3" away from an enemy model so they have to waste an AP getting to you to strike back and lose shooting abilities. 2. The Depleted - Are worth every penny of their 4ss. I used two and had I not been facing freikorp I would have down 4 damage extra when they exploded to two other models. They are really fast when walking as you can shoot an opposing model with a Beckoner giving them Brilliance and walk these guys an extra 5" giving them a solid 10" threat range and a great movement of 15" walk. Also dont forget that some of your own models have Brilliance. So walk an Illuminated in front of them first to get that free 5" of walk early in the game. They are also suprising resilient as they ignore Severe hits (reducing them to moderate) have Armor +1 and Hard to Kill. So basically you can let your opponent run up the combat total when your sitting on two wounds and you'll still be around. And even better if you have even a low crow let your opponent smack them around because your blowing up, doing 2 dmg and giving everything within 2" brilliance. The only downside of these guys is that they cannot be made. I really do believe after playing the crew that Hungaring Darkness should have a trigger that allows these guys to be made from his tendril strike. But maybe that would be broken. But it would add to their utility alot. 3. Mr Graves - Well he got shot to pieces. That's it. His defence four is pretty bad lol and he goes down to massed gunfire quickly. Admittly my placement was a bit poor but it wasn't terrible either, I think he is better hanging back a bit waiting for Huggy, The Depleted or even Beckoners to get into Melee were he can approach safely. Plus Flurry is not as good as Melee expert by a long shot lol. Although great when you get it off I suppose. Also, don't forget, like I did, that he actually has a ranged spell that is pretty decent although against high WP like the Freikorp you really wanna get into melee ASAP and out of the firing line. I'm still not sold on his SS cost overall though. He is a weird, probably too good for 6ss and there are probably better options at 7ss minion. But he is great looking model and I will pretty much always include him in the crew as he is just alot of fun and very thematic. On closer reflection he is probably a finesse 7ss rather than an auto-7ss beatdown machine but probably is worth just about his cost. There are models for the same price in other crews that are kind of auto-play beatdown shennanigen dealers, but just because they are ridiculously good for their cost that doesnt mean he is bad for his. It just means he takes a bit more thought than other models do. 4, Mr Tannen - Overcosted. That is all. At 5ss he could possibly be included in 35ss list, at 6ss he is just too expensive for too little return. I'm trying to think of ways to fix him, but to be honest, he is pretty bad. It seems great being able to deny an opponent use Soulstones, but he really can't lol. Against Masters/Henchmen with high WP, you can forget it AND realisticly your opponent will simply burn a soulstone to stop it. You can argue that this has cost your opponent a SS, but its situational, difficult to achieve in terms of positioning on the table AND is dependent on a suit Trigger. Overall your looking at 4 Cards in the deck making this spell semi-reliable basically 10+ of Masks and you might be able to pull it off. But that Mask is competing with alot of other better uses in a Lynch crew, such as Huggy or Illuminated triggers. I think that honestly, in his current iteration, he might actually be only worth as little as 4ss. Even a posion or Paralyze Trigger on his pocket knife might help. Or some other form of defence, Armor +1 or, well, something! Lol. He dies and does nothing. And unlike Graves who i lost due to incompetent play, this guy just isn't all that useful to begin with, even when used properly. 5. Illuminated - These guys need +2 Wounds or -1ss cost. They are not as bad as some people think, but they are just missing that tiny bit of survivability necessary to make them useful. Even a defence based around models with Brilliance getting -2cb against them or something like that. They are close to being perfect, but are just too squishy for 6ss. I used mine to allow Huggy to suck a Wound every turn and have Regnerate 1 compensate it which is useful. They are a nice source of magic damage if that is needed, but the CB of 4 on their gun makes them very unreliable. Maybe a buff to their CB via Brillshaper would be helpful or better yet an automatic + Mask on their melee giving them auto Flay. They just don't seem to have a role that is effected by Brilliance, sure they can give it out ... but so do Beckoners. An Auto-Flay against models with Brilliance would be very, very intersting, as would buffing them to either 8 Wounds, Armor +2 or healing off of Brilliance or CB bonuses. Just something more than they have at the moment in order to fulful their high cost, yet average abilities. And seriously, I know I'm labouring the point, but not interacting in some way with Brilliance despite dishing it out is pretty bad. One can probably always be include, but two for 12ss?I'd rather have three Depleted to be honest. 6. Beckoners - They aren't as good as you've read about ... they are even better. They give out Brilliance like its candy, they lure like rotten belles, they keep the Brilliance Party going and get into melee with something covered in Brilliance and he is doing nothing to you. Oh and did I say Red Jokering Non Master - Misaki in one shot? Situational, a one off, but these girls can pack a punch despite their luring/brilliance giving primary role and their Poison 1 on Nail Rake is absolutely nothing to be laughed at, as your opponent is not going to be hitting you back in melee if he is Brilliant anyway. Always start a lynch crew with 2, everytime even in 20ss games. They make up their SS cost in spades. If anything they are too good for 5ss lol!!! I'd pay 6ss each for these girls (provided they added one to Lynch's cache like Guild Hounds ). But still, they are that good. 7. Jacob Lynch - Jacob is pretty hard to use to be honest, but has alot of really cool abilities. Why is he hard to use? Well not because he is bad, but simply because you never ever want him to die, so that Huggy can keep tearing enemy crews apart. Because of this you tend to be quite fearful of exposing him to anything as with only 8 wounds, one Red Joker and he is probably gone for good along with Huggy. Now, a useful tip I did during my game is when a Freikorpmann was engaged in melee with a Beckoner was, discard a card to gain fast, walk, walk, shoot an opponent in melee (via gunfighter) then use my zero action to push 4" away again. Now this move was Terrain dependent (as I ended back behind cover after my final 4") but just shows how much movement and threat range Jacob has. Oh, and my best moment with Jacob. Red Jokering Von Schill on one shot for Severe + moderate damage and then ... yep you guessed it ... using my Ace of Masks to Red Joker Von Schill again for Severe + Weak Damage. Two shots, one dead Von Schill. The only thing I found bad about Lynch, aside from my nervousness about placing him anywhere near the action (hence why Bodyguard might be a great scheme for him as you really will try and keep him alive anyway), was that Dead Man's Hand is not as easy to use as people would make out. That clause about tageting an enemy model with the spell can make it suprisingly tricky to use the ability. Other than that, The Source should be a 0 action or built in like Belle of the Ball of Seamus. +1 inch movement isnt a game breaker, so having it as a 1 action is never worth it tbh. If it was 2+ inches maybe, but 1 ... no thanks. So there you go. That is my first thoughts on this crew. Overall, they are beautiful models, a boatload of fun to play and all the models work excellent with each other (with perhaps the exception of Mr Tannen and Illuminated not seeming to benefit from Brilliance being given out which is pretty strange). I can honestly say I would consider making these guys my primary crew over Seamus, as they are competitive, fulffy/themed, loads of fun to play and great looking on the tabletop. What I'd like to see in the future is: 1. An Avatar for Lynch that is some sort of mixture of Lynch and Huggy. I actually can't wait to see an Avatar for them lol 2. Some form of themed crew healing. Sure you can bring a couple of high cost neverborn models for healing or maybe Brutal Effigy or maybe Yamaziko but they dont going along with the honeypot theme. That is one of the few blind spots of the crew. Pretty weak with no healing (outside of Huggy). 3. A few more Honeypot models. This crew really does feel like a self contained crew IMO. They are more neverborn than 10 thunders and they all pretty much sync up with one and other. So a couple more Brilliance benefitting models will be great for alternate crew selections. 4. Fix Mr Tannen and maybetweak Illuminated. Tannen sucks, thats all there is to it, he is practically unplayable (in a Lynch crew at least) both from a theory and practical look at him. His 6ss is just not worth it. The Illuminated as mentioned need either a bit more survivability of someway to benefit off of Brilliance, both of which they currently lack. Other than those minor thoughts this crew is close to perfect. Great models, great rules, great theme and unlike some of the other 10 Thunders, rarely do they cause opponents to cry foul of shennanegins being pulled. The Dark Debts is a really tight well syncing crew that is absolutely loads of fun to play. Hope some of these thoughts on my first experience with the crew helped or was useful to some of you .

Thanks for quick response. I knew I had it right . That's why models like HD or Izamu are great as you can beatdown an opposing model from a distance which causes them to waste an AP getting closer AND locksdown their shooting. Thanks

This question came up in a game I was having this week. I'm 99% sure I got it right, but was just looking for confirmation as it was debated during the game. Hungaring Darkness has a 3" melee range on his Tendrils and was exactly 3" away away from a Freikorpmann. I used a Tendril strike on the Freikorpmann which killed him. He recieved slow to die by being next to von Schill. So my opponent couldn't use his Hunting Knife strike as his S2D action as he only has a 1" range and was 3" away. But ... and this was the debate ... he cannot use his ranged strike either because even though he isn't in range for his own melee, he is in range of MY melee and as the Friekkorpmann doesnt have gunslinger her cannot use his ranged Clockwork Pistol in melee. So he could do neither attack. Correct? My opponent argued that he should be able to shoot as he wasn't in melee ... but I argued he WAS in melee ... MY melee of 3" tendrils. That's why having a higher melee range is useful as you can strike from a distance and prevent shooting, meaning that an opposing model with a melee of say 1" will always have to spend an AP in order to strike back and cannot target you with shooting. What do you guys think? Did I interpret this rule correctly? Edit As a seperate question, because as I said I'm 99% certain I'm right on that question, how does casting work when your within melee range? Can you cast out of combat at another model even if your locked in melee? Because I'm pretty sure spells with a gun symbol cannot be used once in melee?

If you want a laugh, what actually happened was that was the end of the Turn. He got the got to start first in the next turn with a flip of 12 or 13 (so no point cheating a SS to steal it) and simply pulled her straight back out of there lol, was truely ridiculous stuff lol. On the otherhand I do realise that without the Suit triggers he probably would have killed neither model and without gaining first Turn on the next Turn he was dead meat. Was funny after the fact, but in game it was pretty damn demoralising watching what other crews can do as a Seamus player lol. Edit But thanks to everyone for taking the time to clarify the rule for me.

Wow guys, thanks alot for the quick replies. Basically the situation was Seamus has hulked out into Avatar and had caused a Ronin to flee, and had Paralyzed Gun Vik and was in melee with her. What my opponent was doing was using the ability to move Viks around to pull her out of the combat she was paralyzed in so he could shoot Seamus reliably (no flipping for who is hit) and stop him getting the +2 armour he gets when in melee with something. Wow, you know I never actually looked at her stat card so maybe it isn't allowed. As you say, maybe you can have Vanessa slingshot to another Vik but cannot slingshot to her. I'll check this out. This would have made a world of difference if true as he was able to use the three Viks to slingshot into my crew and wipe out a Belle and Gunslinger. It was absolutely crazy movement from them lol. Edit Thinking about his first turn decimation of my crew and know that rule now I think it went something like: 1. Nimble Vanessa then double walk 2. Switch her with Gun Vik and walk 3. Sister in Spirit Sword Vik to Gun Vik 4. Charge and strike 5. Use melee expert to strike again 6. Then get his Mask triggers twice for 4 strikes total against my Belle and Convict Gunslinger, thus killing them both. 7. Oh and me having my Slow to Die action on Belle be Teeth and Nails which went through and cause a whopping 1 damage. Take that! 8. Stare and my wrecked crew that just lost 16 wounds and two models dead in turn 1 and contemplate selling Seamus on Ebay for a competitive crew lol. On the other hand, whilst that above is possible, there is no way he could have pulled the Gun Vik out of combat as it would have required that Vanessa be a bouncing point for the Gun Viks casting of Sisters in Spirit and she was Paralyzed and thus unable to activate to do that. Thanks alot guys. I think I understand this alot better now. It still seems like alot of ridiculously unfair, unstopable movement that is absolutely guaranteed to work everytime you want it to. No Casting, no suits, no triggers, no ability to stop it, no line of sight requirment and no minimum or maximum distance. A bit ridiculous if you ask me when you consider they both have melee expert so can double walk and stil strike AND have a trigger that allows more strikes.

Hey everyone. I played the Viks for the first time yesterday and with Avatar Seamus I cast Gorgon's Gaze on the Shooting Vik (my opponent was using Vanessa and Shooting Vik as the other had died by this point) which gave her Paralyzed. In his activation he activated Vanessa and did a one action Sister's in Spirit in order to 'push a friendly Vik to within 3" of this model [vanessa]'. I argued that this simply wasn't possible as the Shooting Vik he was attempting to slingshot across the board to Vanessa was Paralyzed. Now, my opponent was nice enough to play it the way I described that the Paralyzed prevented this action, but looking at the 'Push' rules it states 'it is pushed, ignoring movement penalties'. So I think I botched the ruling and he should have been allowed to move Shooting Vik to within 3" of Vanessa as the rule on their card states. What do you guys think? On a sort of related note, how broken is this damn rule? Because with Sword, Shooting and Vanessa Viks my opponent was able to slingshot into my crew in turn one and take out a Belle and Gunslinger. Now he got some very lucky mask trigger to keep hitting, but its still pretty ridiculous movement that AUTOMATICALLY works, requires no line of sight and simply ignores distances. To think Seamus is supposed to be Fast when crews can do this kind of stuff, sigh.

Hey everyone. I was just wondering has there been any news about when and if the older releases will ever be transitioned over to the newer plastics? Also, now that we have had them for a while are you looking forward to a switchover (if there is one) or are you going to stick with metal models and probably end up scouring ebay for older metal models once/if they run out of production? I personally like working with plastic as its much easier for me to assemble (sometimes I cry when a metal model arrives in pieces that require assembly so I would welcome a complete switchover. What do you think?

I'm thinking of adding the Brutal Effigy to the crew myself. As I mentioned the only real weakness of the core dark Debts crew is its lack of healing/resurrecting anything. I know Huggy can heal and come back again, but the rest of the crew is very vulnerable IMo even with alot possesing Armor or Hard to Kill. Therefore Brutal Effigy can stand with Lynch and shoot with him and heal him as necessary, and then if Graves or perhaps a Beckoner or Illuminated need some healing he can help as necessary. Another Effigy I was considering was Mysterious, but only against shooting crews such as the Ortega's as his 6" aura gives 2 to models df against ranged attacks. This allows the models to approach and get into position safely to start spreading Brilliance which helps everything from then on out. Overall, just looking at the stats (my crew hasn't arrived yet) My main thinking is this: 1. Some crew healing will be useful? 2. Do you need x2 Beckoners in games below 35ss (where you are able to fit them in without sacrificing much)? 3. Should Huggy start off the board? The general crew I'm thinking of running atm is: Lynch - 4ss cache Huggy (off board at start) Mr Graves x2 Beckoners x1 Illuminated x2 Depleted Brutal/Mysterious Effigy Then Mr Tannen will come into play when going for a Melee orientated crew as he can follow very close behind models aiming for melee and debuff whatever they come into contact with: Lynch - 4ss Cache Huggy (off board to start) Mr Graves Mr Tannen x2 Beckoners x2 Depleted Mysterious Effigy (or maybe another Depleted or Huggy on the board) Also because of the crew revolving around the mechanic of Brilliance I find it very hard to justify bringing in many other outside models bar something for healing as tbh most other models would probably work better with masters other than Lynch. But then again, I'm also a bit of a thematic purist. The only one I considered was an Oiran (which is thematric as what casino doesn't have women of negotionable affections) but I think Beckoners pretty much cover most of the same things they bring to a crew. Bringing along Henchmen like Collodi, I always think, why bother cuz Collodi probably works even better with another Master so why play Lynch if you don't focus on his core models that revolve around the theme and rules of brilliance? Edit As was mentioned why Arcane Effigy over Brutal or Mysterious?

Cool, did you start with Huggy on or off the table? I'm guessing in that list ... on the table? I'm inclined to keep him off in all the lists I make using the core models as i usually run it close to the ss limit and buffing Lynch cache from 2 to 4 is nice for something that can be (hopefully) brought in off an exploding depleted or a dead enemy with Brilliance.

Well, after re-reading this whole thread (I have no life lol) I decided to take the plunge and buy the core Dark Debts models, so that means, Lynch, Huggy, Illuminated, Depleted, Beckoners, Graves and Tannen. I must admit i'm really excited about getting them on the tabletop ASAP so I'll do my best to write a couple of battle reports and see if I can contribvbute to some of the existing knowledge out there for this crew. I big thank you to everyone who contributed (and even just read) this thread as it helped me make up my mind about purchasing the crew. That's also code for you all cost me money ... thanks ... *sigh*.

Hey guys, I just wanted to revist this topic now that Lynch has been out a while. He barely gets talked about lol! Are you guys finding it possible to play this crew with just the core plastic models? Lynch, Huggy, Beckoners, Depleted, Illuminated, Graves and Tannen? I would only really want to purchase the crew if they can be played using only various compisitions of these models and still be reasonably effective at winning games (I'm not expecting Hamelin, Dreamer or Kirai levels of power, just decent and fun like Seamus crews lol). What do you guys think, how are you finding your Lynch crews performing??? Also, could someone be nice enough to give me the base sizes needed for all the plastic models as I would need to order custom ones and would like to know how many are 30mm, 40mm and 50mm thanks.

Thanks guys, we actually had our first game using Leveticus yesterday. 25ss Seamus vs Leveticus. He had: Leveticus - 5ss Hollow Waif Rusty Alyce - 8ss x4 SPA's -12 vs my: Seamus - 3ss x2 Rotten Belles x2 Crooked Men Outcast Gunslinger Desperate Merc It was shared Line in the Sand and for the purposes of the encounter I decided that having two SPAs beside one another could make them significant (this should probably be a rule anyway!) otherwise he would have barely any models for objectives. I must admit I was very, very impressed with the crew. Although I think he needs to learn that the crew is supposed to die so just be casual about throwing Leveticus to the wolves and coming back again and again, but that'll come with practice. But he did manage to turn a Rotten Belle into an SPA on turn two much to Seamus' annoyance (grrr lol) Overall I think a single Rotten Belle should definately be added as his crew as Leveticus has a hard time moving places, so it would be great to have things come to him so he can focus on nuking them with spells. After that though I'm a bit confused about what to get him for the 25ss level he is playing. What I was wondering is, do you keep Rusty Alyce in when using someone like Ryle or Lazarus and so pay 16ss for two models, or do you think it should really be one or the other? I was tempted with getting him to try this list: Leveticus - 2ss Hollow Waif Rotten Belle - 4ss Rusty Alyce - 8ss Ryle / Lazarus - 8ss Watcher - 3ss It would be small, but the damage output would be staggering IMO. I guess I'm most at a loss for what is Leveticus's goto cheap significant minion is i.e. Belles for Seamus, Death Marshalls for Lady J, Freikorpmann for Von Schill etc. Something that can go out and interact with objectives and not have to worry to much if it dies doing it. That's why its such a shame SPA's dont become significant in groups lol. You could start or summon a few up and still keep rolling for objectives.

Hey everyone. Basically my nephew started Leveticus so I was just wondering how this crew looks for 25ss? That simple really lol: Leveticus - 3ss Rusty Alyce x1 Canine Remains (to kill to get 2nd Hollow Waif) x4 Steam Punk Abominations (1 Desolation Engine model in reserve to be brought in to replace the 4 SPA at the right time) Basically that's his pool of models starting out. I was just wondering is that ok to learn Leveticus with, or are there one or two models that would be worth getting to add to his potential pool of crew members. Thanks.

Could we maybe all agree that is is Molly is pretty much unplayable as Master of her own crew? I know that might be pushing it in some peoples eyes but she really isn't good on her own. As someone mentioned, throwing in Bete Noir to the mix would make things a little more interesting, but still wouldn't really compensate for the crews poor pool of model choices. When I read things about 'Getting the most from Molly' I actually always assume her as a Henchwoman (PC term lol) to someone. Seamus is the natural Master for her, but I'm always curious abbout how she could be useful for Nicodem, McMourning or Leveticus? But I'd really love a full Seamus tactica for her because she baffles me whenever I try and use her. 1. She costs an arm and a leg i.e same points as Bete Noir and only 1ss cheaper than Dead Rider and now Izamu, its just too much. 2. She needs Soulstones, and Seamus doesnt have ones to spare lol, that's why her and McMourning always fascinated me as a potential combo. I always feel like all I needed with Mcmourning were a few Canine Remains to chop up and we were good to go lol. So that left plenty of spare SS for hiring Molly and he has a large cache to share with her. Win + Win but what does she do for him, that's the question? 3. Leveticus can take her, and as my nephew started using his crew I'm just curious is she ever useful for fielding with him? Love Molly, and would love her even more if she was a little cheaper and less suit dependant. Also, one Belle from two Corpse Counters ... you gotta be kidding me.

No I disagree. The point I as making is that models such as Seamus himself, CCK, Madame Sybelle, Molly and Dead Doxies are almost as they should be. All those models as is need are point altercations Sybelle 5, Molly 8/9, Dead Doxies 4, and Seamus Cache upped to 4. CCK is probably the only one that needs a complete overhaul, but even then, if Mistaken Identity were a little easier to pull off and required no LoS then he becomes useful. What the others need isnt a complete reconstruction, rather they just need a few amendemnts that upgrade or alter their abilities enough to keep up with the current metagame and a kind of new sheen or gloss that allows them to work closer together. ATM with the exception of Seamus and Molly giving Belle's extra movement their is nothing that makes these models feel like they are working as a crew. Sure Belles can Lure models to allow Seamus to Flintlock them and other shenanigans, but that isn't exclusive to him ... they Lure models so anything can benefit from it lol! As I said at the start I've gone back to my roots and have been playing Seamus non-stop recently (probably to avoid the mountain of models I've bought recently that are unpainted and unassembled lol) and what I have found is that he is functional in competitive play but not when using his core fluffy models. Molly, CCK, Dead Doxies and Madame Sybelle aren't competitive picks at all. Molly can be useful on occasion but she isn't priced correctly (she should be 8ss as she corrently plays IMO) and could maybe use a suit or two other than crows to mix things up a bit and stop the crews utter dependency on them (she is superior undead afterall!!!). The models that Seamus now uses IMO are just solid models all round whether he is Master or not, so Convict Gunslinger, Night Terrors, Rotten Belles, Crooked Men, Grave Spirit, Jack Daw, Bete Noir, Dead Rider are all great options ... but they are great options anyway, whether Seamus is in charge or not ... and that's whats wrong with him competitively IMO. He has to use models that arent particularly his (with the exception of the great Rotten Belle) in order to make himself competitive. What ths obviously leads to is a lack of interaction and synergy between models in the manner in which Book 2 crews and the recent Ten Thunders play. Hence what Seamus needs is his 'core' models to get a new coating and updating to make them 2.0 version models, but at their core, still mostly the same as they are at the moment.

Yeah I think this is pretty much what I think of her as well. She feels like she is worth the TWO corpse counters needed to get her on the board unlike a regular Rotten Belle (two corpses from Molly Seriously?) Anyway, I think she would be worth 5ss as is because then her and Grave Spirit would only be 6, but even then it would be of Marginal benefit. Has has been said on this thread and others regarding alot of Seamus crews main models, they need a cosmetic overhal to make them interact with one and other better. No MAJOR changes, just a few things to touch them up and help them sync up a bit more and I think the crew is golden. Still my fav crew though lol by a big margin as well . As for now Sybelle is definately getting dropped in favour of Convict Gnslinger or two Night Terrors pretty much always being in my lists.

Personally I like the face, here was a pic of mine with face in it: I just think it looks alot better. Then again my Izamu is being used exclusively with Kirai, and I do all the spirits in her crews skin this colour, so it matches well IMO. Anyway, long story short, I think it looks better with the head in than head out.

Hey everyone. I've recently bought a whole host of new models both for ressers and other factions and of course somewhat ironically I have played more Seamus games (my very first crew) in the past few weeks than I have in a long time despite all these new shiny crews waiting to be tested. Anyway, recently I have really been refining my Seamus tactics and have started to try and be really competitive with the crews and in 35ss I have kind of settle on the following opening foundation: Seamus Avatar of Dread x2 Rotten Belles x1 Crooked Man Then from I usually draw on my pool of models such as Convict Gunslinger, Night Terrors, Bete Noir, Desperate Merc (and can't wait to try out Jack Daw when he finally arrives ) etc etc. However, in the olden day I ALWAYS used Madame Sybelle as I thought that not only was the model great, but for 6ss (7ss with Grave Spirit attached) she was a great, tough, source of moderate damage. But lately in all of my games were I am trying to be as competitive as possible she has done absolutely nothing for me at all ... as in zero. Worse, when I start to think about it, she is either a pair of Night Terrors for objective grabbing or a Convict Gunslinger for raw ranged damage output in terms of price AND actually a bit more because of the almost mandatory Grave Spirit. So I was just wondering if anyone else uses the Madame Sybelle because I'm thinking of dropping her completely from my Seamus crew as she just isnt a reliable source of damage and does little else except allow that theoretical Seamus Belle Alpha Strike that is of absolutely no use bar a few minor instances (I've never bothered with it lol). So what do you think, because of how the game has evolved is Madame Sybelle better left back at the Bordello than brought out to the Streets of Malifaux with Seamus' crew?