Forar

Oh, I'm certainly not expecting a response today. But, y'know, it's not like I'm unaccustomed to it taking a while to get an answer either. *ZING*

Justin has noted that he's not up to speed on the status of the shipments, and Nathan hasn't posted in nearly 5 weeks. We're nearly at 2 months since the last update, and are down to just over 5 weeks until Gencon, with an estimate of a week to ship out the backer's boxes. Presumably everyone (Wyrd and Backers alike) want this done before the nightmare that is Gencon's order period, along with the con-crud that seems to follow them home each year, and presumably with some space in between the estimated week to get all the boxes out and the weeks of work that Gencon generates. So, might we get some information clarifying what is going on? Are the books even on the ship? Has the ship been held up in customs? Has the warehouse situation complicated matters? Did the shrink wrap machine explode in a fashion that left everyone unhurt because they hid behind armoured boxes of books (which are unfortunately now all ruined)? It is hard to reconcile that the books were supposedly being completed back in January, to the point that PDFs were sent out 3 months ago, and yet another quarter later we still don't even have a tentative delivery time frame. That distributors and the Wyrd Chronicles tentatively note this as an August product at retail, but we're a already into July without any better idea when it'll be going out than we did at the start of the year. I'm also aware of there being other threads on this matter within this very subforum, as I've participated in several of them, but continuing conversations don't seem to be attracting any attention, and so it's time to try a new approach. And I do recognize that with the warehouse move, the issues with the shrink wrap machine, the delays with Malifaux products going out, and surely untold other business projects, concerns and considerations, this is merely one aspect of their day to day operations. However, with a dwindling time frame, the silence is speaking volumes, and it'd be nice to see some efforts to keep the backers in the loop. And before anyone comes back with the usual "we don't want to send out 'nothing to report updates'", I dare say that at 2 months since the last update and theoretically mere weeks from delivery (again, assuming they hook us up before Gencon), surely there must be SOMETHING worth saying, and if there isn't, surely there must be something to say why it remains such a giant question mark.

We don't even know that they've received the books. It'd certainly be nice if someone took a few minutes to bring us up to speed, because the last update was around 7 weeks ago. Monday? At this point I'm not optimistic we'll hear anything in July. And that's for a product that, last we heard, had a tentative August retail release date.

Seems awfully optimistic. Far as we know, the books remain missing in action, as they haven't said anything about them since the update noting the proofs had arrived. Which was 7 weeks ago. 7 weeks with zero word on the matter? Seems like something may have gone drastically wrong. Maybe when the shrink wrap machine went crazy it ate the book pallets. And the warehouse. It totally happens, read it in a Stephen King short story once.

Still a shame that we need secondary sources for such info, but thanks for sharing. I suppose one could read between the lines and assume a tentative July delivery for Backers, August for retail, assuming that information remains good, and the warehouse move/shrink wrap shenanigans/potential longshoreman strike haven't shifted that back further. Then again, Nathan hasn't posted in the forums for a month, so maybe he's setting them on fire for entertainment like that one creator did. (not a serious concern, though someone should probably check in and say hi...)

Apparently there's a looming longshoreman strike that might be affecting some ports in the near future? I wonder if the books are literally still on a boat. If so, they might be there for a while, depending on where Wyrd was having them arrive on the continent.

Well yeah. Some of those were basically $1-10 'tips' towards projects I thought looked cool but wasn't interested in funding at a significant level. But one like this, where I put in $100-300+? That's something else entirely. And you're wrong. Kickstarter is very clear that creators have an obligation to deliver or refund the money to the best of their ability. Sometimes the product takes a long time (see: Ogre), sometimes it means getting pulled through the courts or having to admit massive issues (happened a few times), but while KS may not be a form of investment, it's not a charity either. It's good that you and I can look at a $10 contribution as a "whatever, enjoy!" amount, but that doesn't mean campaigns are free from critique or obligations to those who funded them. It's definitely going to be different for everyone, as each persons financial situation will be different, but man, if a project that raked in 6 figures and I personally gave $300 to said "oops, yeah, not happening, oh well", that wouldn't be something I'd just write off. And while I agree that we will see TtB packages some day, that is basically what you're saying. And I disagree. Luckily, Kickstarter also disagrees. I'd never bother 'fighting' for a fridge magnet if I pitched someone $10, but if Palladium Books announced tomorrow that 'omg, making minis games is sooooo hard you guys! Yeah, sorry, not happening', my friends and I wouldn't just shrug off the grand and a half we contributed to their project between us. Late edit: before anyone bothers saying it; yes, like gambling, one should only use funds for Kickstarter that one is prepared to lose. Just because the $300 I tossed Wyrd for TtB doesn't cripple me financially, that doesn't mean I'm willing to consider it essentially a gift and quietly hope someday maybe I see something back. KS isn't a store, and we aren't investors, but as noted above, it's not a charity either. This grey area makes it LIKE a lot of things we're familiar with as consumers, but lacks the protections many of those things posses. This isn't a perk or benefit of the system, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was eventually legislation written to attend to those shortcomings. And frankly, there is a difference between accepting the failure of "Jane who lives in her parent's basement wasn't able to finish the 2k project she ran" and "a company that has been around for nearly a decade and presumably has some decent operating capital through a successful miniatures line". I'll cut truly small/independent groups more slack. But even small companies like Wyrd and Palladium? Still have access to more resources (money, people, experience, connections) than probably 90%+ of the creators on the site, and are thus held to a higher standard.

Um, you might want to check in on those. I've been involved in over 2 dozen projects so far, from those that raised 1k to the RR one that's pushing 4m right now. Not one of them went more than a month and a half without touching base with the users. Weekly updates are generally unnecessary, but one a month or so seems to be the baseline. Half a year? Man, that sounds like they ran with the money. I'd be inquiring about a chargeback through my credit card if that were the case, at the very least. Edit: though funnily enough, at nearly 6 weeks, TtB may take the honour of the longest period between updates for me.

Well, they did say they anticipated it taking the warehouse a week to mail out the backer boxes, so it's not impossible... But yeah, I'm not feeling very confident either. Especially with the warehouse move, delays/issues with getting that finalized, and the fact their normal releases are getting pushed back, I'm not particularly optimistic. I've asked for an update in other threads, given that our last one was over 5 weeks ago, but it seems they have nothing to share.

And luckily once we're a week into July, both "a matter of weeks" and "hopefully June" will have ended. That's efficiency!

So. How's June looking these days? Apparently the warehouse has moved, has this impacted delivery? Are the books still on a boat? Being held up by customs? Are they the last piece being waited upon? Edit: "All that is left is the (hopefully quick) boat ride for the main shipment of books to get to us, and then we will turn around and get them into your hands as soon as possible! It should be only a matter of weeks now." That's from the last update. Emphasis mine. That was 5 weeks ago. Evidently there has been a hold up of some sort. So, what's shakin'?

I doubt they're particularly threatened. Aren't they the big dog by, like, an order of magnitude? Could just be fan/unofficial forums dedicated to said product line/s want to keep the focus on that. Though that can be achieved simply by having sub-forums available. I know one of the biggest fan forums for said company has several other-game related subforums, including one for Malifaux. Though that one doesn't really see much use these days on that particular site.

As the link notes, June is the current target, but remains at the whims of fate. They've said that they expect the warehouse to take a week to knock out the backer boxes (and given that there's only 4 variations to work with, that shouldn't be too difficult, minimal QA and whatnot), so if the stuff arrives in the next 2 weeks we should in theory still be on schedule. Note: extenuating circumstances may happen, but until they tell us what's going on, we can't know what those may be. Hence the desired open communications. Which is to say, no, I'm not doing exactly what Nathan dislikes and holding them to the June target as an absolute, but if they're going to miss it, it'd be nice to hear about it and what's holding things up. Barring new information, there's no reason not to take them at their word, even tentatively.

"Number of updates" by itself isn't a particularly useful metric. How informative those updates are is, in my opinion, vastly more important. Note that "informative" doesn't necessarily have to mean "long". One of the best campaigns I've participated in had a gift for brevity in their updates, but they also included hard details of the process and pictures of things moving along regularly. The quality of the updates has improved recently, which is appreciated, but at the same time, we're still in a holding pattern 8 months after the delivery target (and entering our third month since the revised target). Note that is not said in an accusatory fashion, it's merely the fact of the matter. thewarstore and a few other retailers I've glanced at are still showing a June release for the products, though unless Wyrd receives the crates soon and begin shipping out in the next week or two, I suspect that's about to get pushed back (if it hasn't been already, it's possible those sites simply haven't updated yet).

Since it seems to be a topic of discussion, I backed at the Gaming Room tier myself, and will have parts to sell off as well. I intend to keep one set of books, a pair of the MPMs and a fate deck, but it's likely the rest will go up for sale. Preference will likely be shown to locals first, just so I can avoid having to deal with Paypal and/or shipping. I'd really looked forward to having some new/rare figures for the collection, but since my group only plays Malifaux a few times a year at this point, I'd rather the models ended up in good hands rather than collecting dust (in their boxes) on a shelf somewhere. Edit: which is kind of funny. Give or take, that's basically what the starter tier is getting (well, minus the MPMs I suppose), and had I gone in for that ~$88 instead of $270, I probably wouldn't have been nearly as concerned or cranky about this all. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 and all.

Good to know. Assuming delivery is likely in the next 7 weeks, it definitely won't be a problem, and even a bit past that I'll probably have a contingency in place, but hopefully it won't be an issue.

You joke, but I may be moving at the end of June. While it's not a huge consideration, a couple big outstanding kickstarters (of which this is one) is actually causing me a bit of stress in conjunction with that.

When I changed my address last year, I messaged them through the "contact me" function on Kickstarter and they messaged me back to note my information had been updated 2 days later. So that seems like a good place to start.

*facepalm* This is a perfect example, right here. "Not everything has shown up, but we're pretty close." You know what would be awesome? Just telling us what that list is comprised of. "So, the books should arrive today, we've had the minis eating up warehouse space for the last two weeks, and the rest of the print stuff is due in next week." I simply don't understand why this needs to be so adversarial. Yes, it's natural to respond defensively with the tone some people have taken over the last year and a half(ish), but at the same time, providing this sort of information once or twice a month without prompting would go a hell of a long way towards building backer confidence. The way that post reads, it sounds like they're about to start shipping in a week or two, which is awesome! So why the hell are both sides apparently nothing but angry and frustrated about it? That alone would make an awesome update; finally knowing that it's not all sitting in some print/production queue on another continent.

A local store has Through the Breach listed on their site now, though no date is set for when it's due out on their site. So I asked them. They said June. I think it's more than just a coincidence now.

Agreed. Getting Hannah pics 3 weeks ago was nice in a "whelp, they're still alive" way, but we're now over 2 months since the "we're on someone else's schedule" comment. I'm seeing this on more and more sites with a similar target date of June, which leads me to believe that either they're all just copying the same original source that may have been made up (entirely possible), or they share a distributor and this is what they've been told. If TtB is intended to be at retail in less than 2 months, then presumably the backers should be getting their packages shortly? And if not, it'd still be nice to hear what the time line is looking like. Yes, this information is being gleaned from outside sources and based on assumptions, but lacking anything else to go on, it's all we have. It was ventured back in March that 'giving estimates just makes people cranky so they don't do it', but surely after said 2 month time frame, *something* has firmed up along the way?

Unfortunately, "Summer" officially ends in late September. So even with a Gencon early release, it might not be in stores for another 5 or so. Edit: Never mind, The War Store has it listed for a June release. http://www.thewarstore.com/wyrdpreorders.html While they have had things slide back in the past, back when I used to pay attention to such things, they were a generally reliable source of information.

Well, it's up for preorder on the miniatures market. Not that this necessarily means much. I can point you to several shops that have had products available for preorder for the last 9 months that won't be available for at least another 3-6+. Might even just be that MM got word of the MSRP from their distributor (or hell, just reading Wyrd's own chronicles) and decided to get the word out early (and at a notable discount at that). But, well, it's something. And if it is indicative of an official word, hopefully it'll be followed shortly by updates noting when the backers should start expecting packages, and when non-backers can expect retailers to start receiving stock.

Thank you for the update. Those are some damned fine Hannahs.

I believe it was noted to have been the wrong cover mated to the book contents pdf. Far as we've heard, that will not be the final product.