Helm

Theoryfaux Warning: While I've played a couple of games with beta Nico, I didn't use what could be described as a "swarm list" or face off against the tactics that I'd personally recommend. However, it seems to me that it's not so much a matter of big models "culling" a swarm as it is them controlling the swarm. I can take Lilith and Taelor with Nexus of Power (one of my few gripes about M2E game balance) and basically have a 15" stripe where enemy models can't Interact. If you try to hit Df7 Lilith with weak "swarm" models, you will get nowhere. If you do the same to Taelor, she can burn a SS for every 3 Wds she takes and get all those Wds or more back, near-guaranteed. They don't actually have to kill the little guys, so Nicodem won't necessarily have an infinite supply of corpses as fuel. What if Nicodem drops more minions? They can't just spend AP and drop counters anywhere for the win. I suppose Crooked Men are a method of dropping Scheme markers within enemy Ml range (if Chunky McBigguy decides to kill them), but none of their friends can. This kind of area Ml control can get really, really silly too. Taelor with Nexus, Candy and Pandora can cover a ridiculous area for about 25ish stones. It's a lot to pay, but it's powerful area denial and Nicodem would have to think hard about where to drop in reinforcements.

Not sure that I could count as a "usual suspect", but i'll gladly jump in. You sum it up pretty well; time, business, priorities etc. Gencon's a really big event, but to take what happens on the tables as some kind of "new Malifaux standard" is pretty strange. Demo games in a crowded hall are always going to be a bit rough-and-ready, with drop-in/drop out and some rules just not being prioritised as much as others. As for events for a game system where the rulebook wasn't available until that very weekend, they're clearly not meant to represent the highest point of tournament play. If the terrain on a table at such a big event contradicts the terrain as outlined in the rulebook, why would anyone assume that it's some kind of official stance rather than a matter of practical limitation? Something I was thinking about touching on earlier; it's not necessarily a binary manner of Shooting vs Swarm. Something like Lilith with her 3" Melee range can tie up and even dispatch a whole lot of cheap minions with impunity while the rest of the Crew deals with objectives. The ability of swarms isn't necessarily tied to the amount of terrain on the tabletop.

Not only that, but any table that you set up from now on is automatically the Official Wyrd Stance on how a Malifaux table should be. So, you know, be careful. My Kade/Candy/Terror Tots combination is going to be in real trouble if you decide not to use much cover next game.

It's been said for some time that hordes are going to be a problem in 2E, but it seems to me that there's plenty to balance them out. Like Sonnia (full stop), the Viks, Huggy... and that's just a quick list of Master-level choices rather than individual models (Taelor in particular is available as a Mercenary). And that's just a matter of killing them; on a board in a real game you can funnel your opponent, assuming that a crowd could all reach where they needed to be in the first place. As to five turns leading to "artificially close" scores, the closeness only comes about if you compare the numbers to 1.5's scores. Which were gained in different ways with different models and so are basically incompatible. Firstly, there's no need to hammer in the point of who has won; massive gradients are offputting to new players and give no indication of how to improve. You could make the point that the 1.5 system made it more clear who had won by how much, but if the game kept hitting the 8-0 ceiling (and it did this often for my housemate and I, both fairly even players) then the scoring wasn't very good for that either.

Out of interest, does anyone have some idea of when these releases could hit the UK? I'm fully aware that specific information is probably right out, but having not paid attention at previous Gencons I don't know if there's a significant lag between things arriving in American stores and UK shops.

For me it's really not thinking outside the box; I find that Taelor improves any situation!

It's one of the few things that I've been worried about in 2E; Bodyguard on Taelor for Neverborn seems like a bit of an auto-win Scheme. Mind you, Bodyguard won't always come up. And Taelor's expensive, and a supply of Soulstones is even more so. There's plenty of stuff to cushion the blow, but it still seems a little ridiculous to me.

/post. Taelor is the only model you will ever need!

On one hand, plastics are fantastic for the conversion opportunities and the fact that they just won't chip. Transporting plastic models is a dream and I always feel secure using them on the tabletop. On the other hand, they also feel like computer-generated toys by comparison to a lot of the old metals. Original Lady J in particular feels like a sculpture to me, and the weight gives the piece beauty and significance just as much as the mark of the sculptor's tools and the slight differences that make every metal model unique. Right now I'm a travelling student just about to leave uni, and plastic models are brilliant. Soon I will have an actual place to live and store things, and metal models are what I'll want. It's just a real shame that the world has chosen to bring them out in the opposite order.

Not to mention that with no "core" rules in a hypothetical Wave 2 Book and with all rules and character art already presented in the faction decks and boxed set covers, it likely wouldn't sell too well. Far more profitable (and possibly honest) to release the fiction in Book 1 and Wyrd Chronicles. After that, it seems like free game in terms of new book releases.

If "this spell" refers to "all spells of this name on all cards", "this model" would surely refer to "all models of this name" too. Apart from the ridiculousness of Seamus vs Seamus, it sounds like Illuminated just got a bit of a buff. (Yes, I'm stirring, but this really could do with an FAQ. Despite the potential embarrassment of FAQing close to release.)

All of the Belles? *All* of the Belles.

I'm guessing it's similar to the instadeath trigger which can be prevented by the enemy discarding cards or SS; opponent's choice.

I know, and I'm sure it'll work out fine. It's just concerning to me that, between the new Crew using Bury as a main mechanic and the old Crew using Bury as a main mechanic, the old Crew is going to be the one that has to budge if games between the two end up as a NPE. Tara's already out and printed, after all.

I'm obviously not Hypoking, but I think what he means is that the Tara Crew's bury effects (barring those of Death Marshals) depend upon nothing already being buried. This could lead to issues for the Tara player if, for example, she wanted to pull the Nothing Beast out of a bad situation by burying him. A smart opponent may be able to attack and kill Bete on another part of the battlefield. The Tara player will have to have Bete definitely die in order to later bury the Nothing Beast, or have Bete bury and hope that the Nothing Beast survives until she gets unburied again. Then again, Tara can unbury Bete in another part of the battlefield, but will Bete then be in range to do damage? Will Tara be close enough to reach Nothing Beast without that extra AP? Meanwhile, we may see Killjoy starting on the table for opponents of Tara, in case she just chooses to unbury him and beat him to death. I'm actually a little worried about the potential interactions between Tara and the Dreamer's Crew; I really, really hope that that's been playtested sufficiently. Until we get her on the table for a bit, it remains to be seen if Tara can afford to take models that fill up that bury zone; it's potentially a complex issue.

My thinking wasn't so much the necessity of getting Reactivate off, but rather her needing to use Temporal Shift as early as possible. I'm not leaving the Nothing Beast at Df 3 and the Wretches at Df 2 for my opponent's first Activation. Maybe not so much of a problem against all Masters, but my housemate's Sonnia crew would tear me apart in that sort of situation, and it really would only take him one activation; I haven't faced anything capable of decent Chain Activations yet, but I imagine that could be even worse.

Not that I've put her on the table yet, but bearing in mind some of Hypoking's observations in the other thread; Tara (Obliteration Symbiote, Knowledge of Eternity, Dead of Winter) 0SS Karina (Long Forgotten Magics) 6SS The Nothing Beast (Voiceless Words) 11SS Void Wretch x3 12SS Taelor (Tally Sheet) 11SS Ronin 6SS 4SS cache Basically, the plan is to really leverage the Crew's ability to throw cards away for a higher Df and offset this a little with some card drawing ability. Drawing cards mid-turn is the only way I can think of to make Void Wretches and the Nothing Beast workable while keeping some ability to Cheat effectively. Thus, Tally Sheet is on the Crew's main beatstick and a Ronin supplies Seppuku. The Crew's burying capability is really reliant on either Death Marshals in close combat or controlling the deaths and sacrifices of the Crew's models. This makes Taelor and the Ronin a really attractive option with Hard to Kill. Taelor is in there anyway as insurance against opponents that attack Wp, and to get dropped next to enemies with a high Wp in order to flatten them. Having not actually used Tara herself, I'm playing the safe game. Obliteration Symbiote is necessary to control who exits the Buried state, Knowledge of Eternity is the only way Tara can make herself Activate before the enemy Crew does, and Dead of Winter makes the whole Wp-based shenanigans possible in the first place. The Nothing Beast acts as a bodyguard for Tara against Ml-based opponents and helps her control a wider area. Meanwhile, a couple of Void Wretches can act as objective runners while one remains to give Fast to anyone entering the Tara 6" -2Wp bubble. So basically, Taelor gets dropped using the Crew's teleporting abilities, but after that it's just snatching up the odd enemy. With few cards the Crew will have high Df, but Taelor drawing cards and the Ronin helping in emergencies should keep the ability to Cheat alive. Nothing too complicated with no particular Strategies or Schemes to tailor for, just an all-round goodstuff Crew.

If you're referring to the 23-stone list posted by pigi314159, I believe he referred to it as the core of the Crew, not the entire Crew in itself.

Another reason why I want to get this Crew on the table so badly; I want to feel the difference between Tara having to play with a >3 card hand against regular Crews and with a more regular hand against the likes of Pandora. Assuming your opponent has at least a couple of Crews and the game follows the recommended pregame sequence, this will be a gameplay shift on the board itself rather than while picking a Crew.

I'd be more concerned about her card tax. Being at a disadvantage while holding cards mixed with needing to keep a 10 in hand for Bete to remain survivable may not mix too well. This is the kind of stuff that I love about this Crew; on paper, at least, there's a ton of stuff to consider in terms of the interactions with every Crew. I'd be pretty comfortable with Lilith starting next to a Fast Taelor (personally I like her better as a tank and control model than a heavy hitter), but I can't think of any other Master who'd have fun in that situation. Taelor I can possibly see as more likely than Killjoy; when you have fewer cards, SS suddenly look very attractive to use. With my limited M2E play thus far, I can only think of the Guild as this Crew's "natural predator"; Justice would be very happy tearing apart a Fast heavy hitter in an Activation or two and Sonnia loves bunched up Crews and models paying the Incorporeal tax. And thanks so much for pointing out that interaction between Karina and Glimpse, I was wondering why the hell she would ever go in a Crew.

Echoes can only be used on enemy Buried models, and its equivalent for friendly models would count as that model's Activation for the turn. I'm actually thinking the opposite. On one hand, posts like Hypoking's reminds me of the old Rising Powers Activation sequences that could be learned beforehand and fired off to great effect. On the other, there's only one ranged effect in the Crew that can Bury models, and all models Buried by Tara-specific effects can be unburied by killing something. That's really damn good interactivity and one of my favourite bits of the design. In Hypoking's example setup, Tara can Activate once and Void Pull a secondary threat (let's say Taelor). If I'm playing Lilith, I could murder a Terror Tot in my own deployment zone and have a bash at Taelor before she even Activates. Sacrificing a model to essentially teleport the foe sounds pretty cool to me. Likewise, if something of Tara's buries one of my models, I can kill a Void Wretch or the like to drop it back in a particular place. Sonnia in particular would love to be doing this at range. The more I read about this Crew, the more I like it.

Tara's Crew needs few cards in order to have any kind of workable Df. To dump cards she needs to Activate before anyone, so it seems Knowledge of Eternity is a must. However, having no cards at all is Bad. Tally Sheet would probably help, and Taelor would probably be the lady to hold it, possibly in conjunction with Tara. Bury her at start of game, drop her as close as possible to enemy Crew? Meanwhile, I can't necessarily see Tara surviving in the middle of the enemy, especially if she's activating first to get Reactivate and buff her Crew's Df. Knowledge of Eternity seems to solve this to an extent, but I can't see the Peacebringer killing much. Dead of Winter would seem almost vital to help Knowledge go off in the first place. All that being said, with only 5 turns per game nowadays, any kind of Burying (especially at range) is probably very strong if it can last out the turn. I know it's really early days, but as someone who can't play at the minute; has anybody tried Tara on the table yet? I'm getting pretty frustrated with the ideas bouncing around and no opportunity to deploy them!

If you're making a themed board, why would it be *anything* but Neverborn? If it's the Quarantine Zone, you can have your buildings, ruined at that Weird twisted magical phenomena Trees growing up through rubble So much by way of creative possibilities with Neverborn.

I'm sort of in this boat. I can still remember standing in the FLGS debating which Malifaux boxes to start with; it was a hard bloody choice because while the small black boxes looked professional, I didn't actually like any of the art. Eventually I went for The Dreamer because of the box back description. The idea appealed to me and the art wasn't as offensive as the likes of LJ. However, at the end of the day, those pieces of art were turned into some of the most fantastic models I have seen on the tabletop. I don't mean to offend the artist, but Lady J's art was of some kind of twisted skinny breast-monster with a hideous pose. When the original sculptor took that idea and translated it to tabletop, the end result was intimidating, calm and ready to break faces. The immensely caricatured art was toned down into someone I could just about see existing; still a bit exaggerated in some areas, but someone that could exist in reality. Honestly, while I don't know the background of the artist, I think the big problem with the new art and sculpts is that the sculpts are made to fit the art incredibly closely. The person who is actually making a physical model to put down on the table doesn't seem to have much input. It could be that the sculpts are being made first and then being translated to art, but I'm not convinced that this is the case; I can't see Lady J's pose or Misaki's pose ever coming from a sculptor, because that person would have to build up the model from the basic skeleton and would quickly realise that such a pose could never exist in real life. Maybe even fantasy life. I appreciate that Soulstones let you do a lot, but without Marcus' powers of transformation LJ is cutting *nobody* from that weird squat pose. Seriously, we do something similar to that stretch to warm up for Kendo sessions, and you are utterly immobile while doing it. The 1.5 Rules Manual was my first rulebook; the alternate Master versions were some of the first Malifaux pictures I saw. I can therefore say that, with a complete lack of nostalgia and with no exceptions barring possibly Seamus, I have always preferred the original Masters to alt sculpts. My thoughts were "It's really cool of Wyrd to have these alternative Master sculpts, and I like the idea of including action poses as an option. There's a sort of anime-ish vibe here. Thank God I can buy the originals though; why is Lilith standing like her hands and feet are being stretched apart by some invisible giant?" Now Invisible Giant Lilith Mk 2 and Sports Stretching Lady J are going to be what new players first see of Malifaux; the reason I keep mentioning LJ, apart from me loving the original sculpt, is that I've always thought of her vs Seamus to be the "standard" Malifaux introduction. It's really cool in a way to have the whole game brought together under one art style. I just wish that the original sculptors were still around and having a say, really.

Not that my opinion would have any impact on the process itself, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm actually quite hopeful about this occurring; Wyrd isn't aiming for a "hard" release that they rely on to bring in sales (like Gencon or possibly Christmas) and have shown that they're happy to dely things like Leveticus that they feel haven't quite worked yet. A slow and steady second wave would be perfect, considering how many models there are to be worked through and how many existing models they're going to be interacting with.