CapnBloodbeard

@Kyle - the post provides a DB link which it says has the Errata and GG cards, however it only seems to have the Errata cards.  Are the GG schemes/strats online anywhere in card format, downloadable?

Does anybody know of some pdf files for print-at-home tokens for M3e?  I know there were plenty of fan made ones back in the M2E days, anything going around now that would help me avoid having to spend a fair bit of money on tokens?  Being in Australia, postage is usually half the cost of the tokens themselves....

On 11/22/2019 at 7:00 AM, Kharnage said:

For the actual Outcast players out there, what has your experience with Schill been? Do you leave the minions at home? How do you run schemes without freikorpsmann basically mimicking Silurids for 1 HP at a time to keep the Rocket Boots?
I walk away from the vs Levi game mildly annoyed in the knowledge that the best shooting Keyword in the game is likely... TT versatile models. 

He needs to have minions and I think handing out equipment can be okay......but the scout is just terrible in M3E.  Just useless.  

Doesn't have sniper range, is quite squishy - and I feel like a sniper should be better at firing that Sh5.  Unless i particularly wanted From the Shadows or ignoring friendly fire for a particular match, I can't see any reason to take him.  

Last list I played:  

Viks vs Lady J

Viks x2

Ronin x2

Student of Conflict

Midnight Stalker

Bishop

Desperate Mercenary

Big Jake

Wedge deployment, Turf War, Hold Up, Breakthrough, Claim Jump, Detonate, Power Ritual.  Took Break and Claim

I misread the text and though you could use Jake's 2nd appearance for Claim Jump.  But he's so low wounds that didn't help anyway.  

I was worried about Lady J tearing through my crew, so I though Bishop could help control her with Challenge, and Midnight Stalker could help with adversary.  Didn't end up using either of those on Lady J because I was able to take care of her in Turn 3.  Midnight stalker had the 2nd purpose of being my scheme runner - he did fine at that.  

Bishop didn't really do anything useful.  Desperate Merc was there just to be another body, but it's useless having him in a corner by himself in Turf War - he dies too easy, then I have nobody nearby to flip that marker back.  Still, he took out the Scales of Justice - Scales has the ability where damage he cops he deals back.  At least with Jake I'm like 'so what?  I kill you, I die, I'm back in 2 turns'

Student was utterly useless.  I think she managed to land fast twice on Big Jake or something.....big whoop.  Probably could have taken another desperate merc instead.  

Ronins did precisely zero, as always.  One was supposed to run up along with Bishop but got killed early despite being in cover, oh well.  The other lasted a little longer, but didn't really do much.  Having said that, they ignore armour and my opponent had a peacekeeper which was his claim jump target - therefore, my Ronin's became a priority.  So, I guess they helped a little in that regard.  

If I want her for fast, would probably be better if there's another big hitter like Taelor.  As it stands, the big hitters all had 3AP anyway, so she's stuck giving out fast to the weaker models.  

Ended up being a draw.  My markers in the backline were flipped by models dying and nobody was near enough to flip them back, and it was low scoring overall.  Stalker got himself engaged in Turn 5 and couldn't leap out, so I couldn't drop my final Breakthrough scheme markers.   

I don't really feel like I missed Vanessa too much.  Never been a fan of her.  

Yeah, I was thinking a gun line probably would have worked better.  Or run my Viks around in the corners and do scheming and let my opponent figure out how to split his forces.  One of my weaknesses is that I always go to my opponent

I had a hard time dealing with Nekima in M2E, and just got wallopped in M3E

 I was running

-Viks

-Schill

-Vanessa

- Taelor

-Ronin

-Ronin

Opponent took 

Nekima (inhuman reflexes)

Mature nephilim (inhuman reflexes)

Lilitu (Ancient Pact)

Blackblood Shaman

Blackblood Shaman

Strat: Cursed Idols

Scheme pool: Assassinate, outflank, Power ritual, take Prisoner, Hold up their Forces

Flank Deployment

I took Assassinate and Outflank, opponent took Outflank and Power Ritual

I lost 6-1, only had 2 models on the table after Turn 3, got tabled Turn 5 - making it impossible to score any further on these strats and schemes.  

I was attacker, had Viks, Vanessa and a Ronin left of centre, Schill, Ronin and Taelor right of middle.  First turn I did a fair bit of Concentrate, Schill put 2 equipment upgrades on the Ronin 

Idea was for the 2 Ronin to head for the corners and the rest of the models to take on the scrum.  In hindsight, I probably should have kept both Ronin near Schill to make more use of the equipment.

Viks moved up a bit and hid behind a building, Taelor moved up and across, Ronin did the same.  

My Viks went after Nekima, but due to some poor flipping/poor hands and a bit of bad luck in initiative, They both got torn apart pretty quickly - even after burning 5SS trying to keep them alive.  that left Taelor and Vanessa in the middle, with a Ronin running up to the corner where 2 Idols were, and the other running down to the other corner taking on the Terror Tot then getting into position for Power Ritual

Taelor took on Mature Nephilim, did some damage but couldn't kill it, and died pretty quickly.  

Schill was still in the backfield, trying to shoot Nekima but just not getting much damage at all - I never got more than 3 wounds on her, and with her regen....

2 more Idols dropped in the middle, but only Schill was there.  Nekima moved over to one of my Ronin who kicked an Idol with her dying breath, and at this point there was buggar all Schill and my Ronin could do.  

So.....any thoughts on how I could have played it better?  

I'm thinking...

- Perhaps I needed to keep my models away from my opponent and make his crew come to me.  Put my Viks and Vanessa up to the corner with the Idols, and let Schill and 2 x Ronin go down the other corner for Power Ritual - with Schill and another Ronin to head back if nothing was coming.  Taelor probably to stick with the Viks knowing they'd be the target.  Perhaps I shouldn't have gone after Nekima?  However. it just felt like - if I did that, I couldn't stay away from Nekima and her flight, so if I did that, she'd get in the first charge, thus deciding to attack first

- My plan with Schill was to have him throw models back at the Viks for them to hit.  Clearly, this plan doesn't work if I'm splitting my forces up (I took Schill for fun...really, a midnight stalker and Hans probably would have done better....even Hans, a Ronin and a few more SS).  That plan with Schill wasn't really compatible with my scheme pool, I think....

- Schill may have gotten caught too far back.  1st turn activation was concentrate + 2 x equipment...then by the time everybody was engaged he was still 2 moves + charge away, so couldn't hurl enemy models away

- Movement tricks of being able to pull models out of combat....they didn't seem to achieve anything; after all, the other model can just charge back at them

- black blood was hard to deal with

Once I lost too many models, I didn't stand a change in this strat/scheme pool

As well as being able to destroy destructible terrain with equipment 

I think that resilience is still one of the strengths of this crew....perhaps even more so.  So, I imagine making them very difficult to kill is valid.  Do you have any engineers?  

One interesting thing I find about librarians is that people seem to put a lot of effort into taking them out.  

14 hours ago, Zebo said:

Don't forget that in that list, VS can only give upgrades to Ronins and himself. 

I hadn't missed that - but thanks for pointing it out

21 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

The Terrifying Ability happens on Minions, sorry.

 

Ah, missed that though.  Well makes that choice easier then

EDIT:  Welllll.....I got slammed.  

Played against Nekima.  

End of Turn 1 my Viks got into engagement, didn't do much.  Opponent won initiative, and that was the end of the Viks.  Kind of went downhill from there....I just couldn't do anything at all about Nekima beating the absolute snot out of my models.  A lot of her crew hits hard.  I got tabled Turn 5, lost 6-1

Schill probably wasn't worth it, but he wasn't terrible.  The 3AP worried my opponent and he hung around until the end.  I didn't get to throw anybody at the viks like I planned, and the Ronins didn't really make much use of the upgrades...mainly because only 1 Ronin was close enough to him, and the only thing that one did was take on a terror tot.  

Running Hans and...maybe Johan....instead of Schill would have been better, probably.  

Ronin, I never liked them in M2E but they went alright.  Taelor wasn't too bad, caused my opponent some problems but could quite kill anything before dying herself.  

Black Blood is a real issue to deal with.  

All the bonus mobility is really nice.  Being able to use charge as a basic movement without targeting an enemy model is good for taelor - and it occurred to me it even allows Schill to just leap over terrain just because.  Schill in particular, he has total free reign to charge models that are completely out of sight.  

Got a game coming up tomorrow....thinking I might try Viks with Schill, Vanessa, midnight stalker and 2 x Ronin.  Schill will hand out Rocket launchers, maybe grenade belt to the Ronin.  Midnight stalker for the extra AP and he might be a pain to put down.  Schill to throw models back to the Viks basically, and letting somebody take a shot.  

There's probably a way I could optimise that more, but I'm okay for now.  

I'd LIKE to take servant of dark powers on a Vik, mainly for the terrifying - just for card drain really, but getting up to 46SS doesn't leave me with much....

Similarly, Hans would prob be a good replacement for a ronin....but another 2 SS.  

15 hours ago, NAX3011 said:

Sarcasm?

No, just seems to me that Tara has the capacity to be highly mobile.  

well,  there's Karina's necromancy savant....but surely Tara isn't going to often be within 8" of Karina?

21 hours ago, ShinChan said:

It's good when your crew leader is a henchman

yeah but....why would you ever do that?

So, what does the brains trust think about the Effigy upgrading to the Emissary?

To do so, it needs a 2SS upgrade - and you have to wait until the start of turn 3.  This gives you a half-dead Emissary (ie on 6 health). 

It also means that you're running a 6SS effigy for 2 turns, so you're really wanting him out of harms way because you'd hate for him to have died costing you 6 SS.  

In 2 turns keeping him out of harms way isn't too much of  a problem for most deployments, but basically the only thing he gets to do is a little bit of healing, if needed.  

So, what do people think about the worth of doing it this way rather than just hiring DonkeyMan to start with?  With only 3 Trinket options, does the Emissary do enough anyway?

Yeah, even Hans is only 14".  Last time I played my sniper, he literally did nothing for half the game, couldn't even shoot.  I seriously question whether he's worth taking now.  

Also, can't handle Schill not ripping off his shirt.  It was just one of the greatest abilities in the game - the idea that in ripping off his shirt Hulk Hogan style, his sheer machismo not only heals him but makes his enemies too terrified to move.  

Oh well!

has anybody put much effort into the 2points damage for activating with fast near certain models?  Seems like this could be abused to give a model a fair bit of damage just for waking up.....

Although perhaps it's more situational; the opponent can just avoid activating that model, and in the meantime you're probably better off letting your models wander off and do something more useful.....

I think Schill really came good after Book 5, when he could single handedly throw models around the table and beat the absolute snot out of them.  

Until then, he never really seemed to quite have a place.  

These days under M3e, I actually feel like the synergy with his crew may be more important and I think he may be a more subtle master - and I think there's a lot of denying the opponent going on.  Can still throw models around, but I don't feel like he wants to being in the middle of the enemy like he used to be.  I sort of think he might want to hold his Freikorps bubble and charge in to a problematic enemy model to throw them away so his crew can shoot at them.  

Lazarus, I'm not liking so far.  I've only played one game, but shockwave was meh.  Laz has gone from a big terrifying monster, to somebody who can kind of maybe cut you a little bit at a time if your flipping is bad.  

I think Schill and his crew are a lot more nuanced these days with all the equipment handouts.  

As for the Scout.....with only 14" range he's now a very different model.  No longer can you just plant him anywhere knowing he can hit almost the entire table - he actually needs to be somewhere the enemy can get him.  

I think with the engineer, the crew can become very hard to remove.  

And given that non-scout models also have 14", or 12" on their guns.....I'm actually not really seeing the point of snipers in this edition.  

I'm only just starting to check out M3E now....Levi no longer has the expanded hiring pool, is that right?  Seems like inter-faction hiring / summoning is gone from a lot of models?

Yeah, I rarely used Taelor in M2E - I'd only consider her if facing a summoner.  I used her so rarely I was considering getting rid of her....but now, I like her, and I think she'll do well in the Viks crew.  

I'm glad that Outcasts have more constructs these days.  It means that Lazarus can actually interact with constructs rather than having an ability you can probably never use.  

On 1/24/2019 at 9:17 AM, Davos said:

Fellow Freikorps Enthusiasts, how do we feel about the changes to Arik? 

"Arik Schoettmer: gained Construct characteristic. Increased Armor to +2. Lowered Health by 1. Charged Fists now Pushes enemies."

 

I'll admit, however, the change to Charged Fist seems....strange.  Arik appears to be a Battletank, dealing insane damage and tarpitting your opponents, so pushes them up to 2inches away just seems counter intuitive, when his reach is only 1inch.  Yes, you can "push" the targeted model by .00001 inch  and call it a day, but it still doesn't feel synergistic.  

 

Given that killing is less of a thing, I'm wondering if those little pushes are going to become more potent in moving models away from schemes/strats....I dunno

It's only up to 2"  (as opposed to 'pushes 2")- so you don't have to push them.  And they haven't taken anything away.  So personally I think this makes him more powerful.

Edited the first post with corrections.  

So why is he now an outcast?

10 hours ago, Jingizu said:

Did you print old card versions or something? Because Viks don't have Companion but Synchronized (like Companion, but only for the other Vik), Sisters in Spirit doesn't change the leader but put the other Vik in B2B, Whirlwind does 1dmg to all enemies in pulse 2, there is no 4" push or twin strike.

That's what happens when I rush a post.....lol.  Thanks for pointing that out.  i'll fix it tonight

So what do we think about M3E Viks??  

I didn't play the closed beta so perhaps I'm missing something.....but I'm wondering about how they fit in.  

M2E, we know what they were.  Glass cannons that all buff each other with lots of craziness, but don't really synergise with any non-sisters.  Giving out free melee attacks and so forth.  Bonus melee attacks with bonus positive flips and bonus dmg and stuff went away almost as quickly as you would burn through your deck.  

Now?  

EDIT: Okay, was quoting the wrong abilities.  Rebooting this topic:

Some more movement tricks - built-in  sisters in spirit, battle tempo looks like it could be pretty powerful too.  It's just enough to get them out from a corner and into a charge line. 

Built-in synchronised is nice - and if they can pair up to get some kills, you get some real activation advantage with existing pass tokens

Into the fray....auto heal 2 after a kill.  Reasonable replacement of the M2E version

When 1 Vik dies, the other gets + to Df and Wp.  Pity it's not on attack as well, but it's something.  

3/4/6 ml7, so still quite a potent attack, and have to consider that stuff is supposed to die less in M3E.  Whirlwind is seriously nerfed, just 1 dmg to other models in 2".  In theory you could deal up to 4dmg in an activation (if you accomplice in the other Vik), but in reality you'll be lucky to hit 1 or 2.  Has some tactical benefits, but mostly it won't be more than slightly annoying I think.  3 triggers means you're probably either getting a free Ml to another friendly (but only targeting the same model - so highly situational), drawing a card, or the 1dmg.  

Custom firearm is okay..2/4/5, possible push for a friendly minion

Tacticals...both Viks can get shielded, there's the + to all duels if not within 6"....although only for Sh, which kind of sucks.  And can push all friendly Viks into base contact and possibly hitting a Melee

So, it looks like you really want to keep both Viks close to maximise the attack.  They have decent melee still, but you don't have the tactical choices of how to buff them with each other anymore, and they're not stacking attacks on top of attacks.  

Still squishy.  Be interesting to see how their place compares in M3E.  They look a lot simpler to play, if nothing else.  I suppose with M3E, we need to think thematically - Wyrd want you to bring Taelor, for instance.  I didn't like Taelor much in M2E, but I want to field her with the Viks now.  

Vanessa...I wasn't a fan of her before, less so now.  I guess she can do healing better (doesn't take 2AP), but sisters isn't a thing so she doesn't buff anymore.  Suprisingly, Arcane Staff is even worse than before.  

At least both Viks can now take Hard to Kill on the 'hired mercenary' upgrade, although 2SS is pretty expensive, especially as there isn't a lot more of use on that card to Viks.  

Servant of Dark Powers could be interesting - 6" move first turn, Heal 2 after a kill.  So wouldn't that stack with the existing heal?  

I haven't thought too much about other crew choices of versatile models....

With Viks, previously you needed to ensure your hits killed because they probably wouldn't withstand a counter.  Now, it's still less likely to kill on that first hit - but can they withstand a counter?  Hmm, I wonder...

22 hours ago, Colin McLeod said:

The hodgepodge effigy is completely useless for points cost nuff’ said

Not 'nuff said.  Make an argument or this thread is just pointless trolling.