Nagi21

Just now, Zebo said:

Mmm When you say that Misery should stack, you mean that you think that a model gaining Stunned near 4 woes should suffer 4 wounds by the face? 

That's close to how she used to work in 2e (1e was even more crazy if you can believe it).  Sure it was really strong, but it only was really strong when you were in the short-range misery bubble.  Also, and this is important, opportunist wasn't a thing, so you couldn't constantly gain and lose conditions in the same activation.  Granted misery pinged off failed WP duels (and with pandora, everything was a WP duel), but it's like if you took Toni, and they said her bubble is too strong, so you could only have one grit ability trigger per turn.  Negates the whole theme of the crew. 

7 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

@Nagi21 Iggy and ‘dora would have auto-killed anything in Burning hazardous terrain without the nerf - So it’s probably for the best if not perfect. 😜

Legit question: Aside from Kaeris and Reva, what are you doing where there's burning hazardous terrain around?

Wyrd... seriously, with all due respect: How the hell am I supposed to use that in a 3'x3' 50% terrain board skirmish game?  Honestly please explain.

5 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

I agree on the general Notion that Misery doesn’t need the restriction - it was a last minute panic nerf, they didn’t think properly through. (They realized Iggy would be abusive in Kaeris).
 

This of course had a huge and negative impact on the minions, part of why I only use Sorrows is because, they at least have the ability to trigger Misery themselves, so I agree that Aversions and Lyssa are pretty meh - but Iggy is sworn by by many, he packs a big punch for a small model, he works great in countering schemers, and he’s got three actions.

Bandersnatch could use a little bump defensively, when buried. But the key is to isolate your target, I’ve had the Bandersnatch as key in taking out models like GG0 Yasunori, he didn’t like those negative flips, the distracted the poison the injured and the constant damage, but Bandy needs support. He softens the target up for someone else to make the blow - even if that someone is just a new summon.

God forbid you can't bring a specific keyword into a faction.  Wonder what that must feel like... 🙄 Nerf an entire keyword for a 6ss model.

Anyway enough half-sarcasm.  Iggy's OK but again, stiff breeze = dead, and his defensive trigger is easily ignored by your opponent (you don't have to do anything with said trigger, just declare it).

To be honest I just put Bandersnatch on that list because I've never seen anybody use it.  It seems like to get the most out of him  you need Widow, but since Widow's good on her own and dreamer has better options at that price point, he seems risky as is.  It might be a case of he's good, but the alternatives are great.

I'll limit myself to NVB, since that's what I know.  I'm sure most of this will be dismissed with "wah Dreamer OP wah":

Nekima - A bad model as a master.  Sure she has a stat 7 attack, but it's 3/5/6, which makes it bad vs armor or HTW (or god forbid both... filthy Rezzers).  She has no defenses aside from her mobility, and her kit is all over the place.  She's basically the opposite of Seamus (bad master, great crew).  Why one of her 10ss minions couldn't teach her combat finesse I'll never know.  Not to mention the IR nerfs (which I won't mention beyond here since it affected everything in the faction badly).

Lelu/Lilitu - Cost the same as a young nephilim, but need both to even consider working, and Lilitu is not good at Df4 and mid-range.  The healing doesn't work due to healing rules, and it's expensive compared to the alternatives.

Terror Tots - Yes I get they're 4ss, but what role do they have?  They're bad as schemers since they have no mobility abilities, and their offensive prowess doesn't exist in the change from 2e to 3e.  Dolls are better schemers, and I'd rather have 4ss than a tot with a crew that eats soulstones by the pound.  Ironically the 4ss model is outclassed by both 3ss options (hounds and dolls).

Blood Wretches - Just... what are these things?  I know you're not selling the 2e starter set anymore but come on...

Angel - Angel isn't a bad model per se, but clockwork rifles are the new fad, and she's outperformed by a bushwacker (stealth vs soulstone use... hmm...).  She's just too expensive for what she brings to the table.

Woes - Grouping them all into one here since it's an overall issue.  Misery isn't really very good.  The reason people think pandora is really good, is that she still devours low WP models due to opportunist and stunned, so her counter matchups look good.  It's rare to see someone play bubble Dora like back in 2e.  The fact that you can't proc multiple miseries at once, combined with the once per activation restriction make it just an incidental ability.  

Sorrows/Lyssa/Iggy/Aversions - The low cost Woes lack... something.  They die to a stiff breeze or any kind of focused attack from a model, but don't really provide anything other than Misery auras (see above).  Unless Misery gets buffed, the low cost woes need something to make them a good alternative to Elite Dora crews.

Waldgeists - These really need a cost reduction I think.  Mv 4 is painful and they don't do anything but sit around and tank, which is fine, but at 6 I could get just as much tankiness with offensive power included in an Autumn Knight for 1ss extra.

Bultungin - I've used these once, for condition removal, vs Collette.  It was CLL so some condition removal plus lodestone movement was helpful, but these things are just... not that good, and everyone knows it so I won't get into it much.

Rougarou - Expensive and squishy.  Yes they're fast but they're built like anti-schemers, which is fine, and priced like frontline beaters.  Either a cost reduction (which wouldn't work since then they'd be the same as knights), or some kind of defensive buff to make them more able in a scrum (I mean is asking for Df5 such heresy?).

Killjoy - I've seen moments where Killjoy does work, but it's few and far between.  He just lacks AP efficiency.  Without something to pull him up the board, you'll be lucky to get 2 attacks out of him by the end of turn 2.  He also struggles vs HTW/Armor targets, which makes him a deceptively inefficient beater.  Sure he can keep coming back but at the cost of another model, which isn't fantastic.

Bandersnatch -  I keep trying to make this model work in my head, but it's just so, so squishy.  It can't pick a fight with something in it's own weight class since they can target it even while buried, and it has no good way to stay alive.  

Euripides - What is it with NVB and bad defensive triggers?  The on success means his defensive trigger will rarely go off, and even if it does it's not the most useful thing in the world (Luci has a better thing in a bonus action).  Also... why doesn't he have his faction ability (frozen vigor)?  He chucks pillars, or hilariously tries to go hit things with his fist (which usually ends well... for your opponent).  Underwhelming to say the least, but not useless like some on this list.

Savage - In general, the entire keyword suffers from the same squishiness that the Nephilim do, only instead of regeneration and flight, they get Hard to Kill and Old ways.  I feel something was lost in translation with the crew.  In theory, the large models can be targeted, but should be able to get cover from their massive ice pillars and be hard to take down between shielded and healing keeping them over 1hp,  In practice, they have issues moving around, and a very significant amount of ranged abilities ignore cover entirely, leaving them with no defense other than HtK.  Old ways also takes 1 dmg to proc, so it doesn't become useable at 2hp or lower (since if you use old ways at 2 you go to 1, and at Df5... you can be hit for -- pretty easily).  IR also hit this crew hard (I know I said I wouldn't...), since it makes Geryon's extended reach a much worse proposition, and the repositioning was important to this crew.  They really need something keyword wise to not make themselves giant, clumsy, targets.  You gave me Cyclops with min 3 damage... now let me be able to walk out of my deployment zone with them and use it!

On 6/1/2020 at 3:11 PM, GremlinDaycare said:

Hey Everybody! My girlfriend has been playing Nekima and Pandora! We do role and lore heavy matches, who would Nekima and Pandora fight more than anyone lore wise? Who would the neverborn fight most lore wise?

Nekima will pick a fight with literally anyone.  That's part of the reason I don't like her.  Lilith had some subtleties and was actually interesting.  Nekima would try to 1v7 the Ortega's in downtown Malifaux given the opportunity.  Fun Fact: She's the one who threw the body through the first breach that had "OURS" carved into it.

Pandora has a bit more lore, but it's less murder (though she does prey on humans), and more personal growth between her and Candy, and the relation she has with Lilith and Zoraida (which is on hold for various reasons).  She doesn't discriminate much as far as having a bone to pick with any particular master, although I don't know where she stands in 3e as far as relations.  

Sadly, most of the classic fights were Lilith v. X (Lilith vs. Seamus, Lilith v. Rasputina).  Recently Nekima has picked Lynch as her latest vendetta (explaining why Lynch is TT only now).

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Since speed is relative, question: if leap was nerfed to 'within 4 inches', would Neverborn have a large (relative) boost?

I would say it would help but the mobility alone isn't the issue.  It's the mobility, plus the tankiness, plus the damage.  I mean look at VS (I know but he's the best example right now).  You nerf leap and that still leaves fast val, teleporting undergrads, and unimpeded Viscera, along with all the tank and damage that comes with it.  I mean let's be honest, would anyone think Seamus is a balanced model in and of himself?  No, but since Redchapel is weak everywhere else, nobody bats an eye.

10 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

Yes, ressers are overall a better faction. You’re right. 

Now that you’ve gotten that out of your system, you’ve got two choices, either :

Get on the gravy train, load up on zombies and win (although you might want to check out 10T or bayou instead).

Or

Buckle up and play some more Neverborn. 

Simply whinging won’t improve anything. That time is better spent painting, ‘cuz ultimately having the better looking crew is the sweetest victory. 

I will never play Rezzers.  I have standards.

Outcasts on the other hand...

Maybe I'll dust off my NVB again when Wyrd gets over their addiction to making sure they don't actually do anything useful compared to other factions.

8 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I wonder how much of it is just that Ressers have 8 solidly playable masters, and Neverborn do not. We have two players who swap between resesrs/Neverborn here (myself included), and Ressers just seem a lot more powerful in general.

There's also the issue that the two 'themes' of the factions has ressers coming out on top. Fragile glass cannon is going to generally lose to melee tanky faction, even if both are equally good at what they do. In general Neverborn solve the main problem Ressers have for them (Ressers want to be in melee where they can actually hit you with their powerful attacks, and Neverborn typically have to do the courtesy of getting into melee range). Normally Neverborn manage the risk of getting into melee range by exploding whatever they're fighting, but Ressers are too tanky/grindy for that.

So agree that overall Neverborn feels perhaps a bit weak when facing Ressers.

I mean honestly I think one of the big issues is that people keep calling NVB a "glass cannon" faction, when in reality it's more like a glass handgun.  Yes it can still hit hard, but if you have even a little bit of protection, the NVB player has to outplay you to not get run over.  I mean I look at someone like Von Schtook and his crew looks almost pound for pound as murder-y as a Nekima crew, but he has absurd tankiness behind it and summoning.  If NVB are a glass cannon that's an M1A1...

Also I'm not saying that you shouldn't have to slightly outplay your opponent to win.  My issue is when you have to massively outplay your opponent to try and squeeze out a one point win if they make a mistake or two, or don't bring an ideal comp.

So I've been playing 3e since just after beta, and something that has become apparent to me, is that aside from Dreamer (possibly with zoraida), all of our crews are hard countered by at least one thing in Rezzers hard enough that the matchup is borderline unplayable.  Even if you take out the bad crews (Reva, Seamus), they seem to have an answer for everything we do, and do everything we do better.  Examples:

- Pandora loses terribly because the Daw bubble beats hers, and the other options in the faction outmanuver her easily (looking at you molly...), plus there's Archie.

- Titania can somewhat keep up, but the lack of mobility and lack of damage means that they continually heal and outlast you.

- Nekima doesn't hit hard enough to get through the main beaters of the faction, and is not tanky enough to last (Von Schtook is basically the Rezzer nephilim crew but better since they have actual defenses and card draw)

- Euri is a non-factor since the most popular crew right now (VS) eats his models easily for free summons.  Also Kirai and Molly give 0 shits about ice pillars.

- Lucius dies to Anna and company.

Call it ranting if you want, but while there are some matchups that aren't bad, the possibility of blind picking an unfavorable match-up makes anything other than Dreamer too risky to play into Rezzers.

7 hours ago, LeperColony said:

First, between cheating or, if you know you can't cheat, paying 1 health for stones (or stoning for suits) it seems rather rare where it'll just happen.

But also, the timing on it is immediately.  This means you can declare it even if you're losing.  So if you can't win, but you have a low crow?  Get a soul stone.  Sure, it ends your activation, but if it's already your last action, then it just turns a failure into a stone.  

It doesn't end the activation, it ends the action.  You can do this constantly per turn if you have the AP.  Get something to give him fast and you now have someone who looks impossible to kill making 3 stones a turn...

2 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

I'm amazed how often people bring new crews to tournaments. Like, of course you arent going to make it to turn 5 if you've never played the crew. Of course you are going to run out of time if you own 7 crews and only played each twice. A big reason I can finish my games is because I own 2 crews, I've played them dozens of times, and even now 4 months into Rona I can tell you nearly everything about my Chimera models, and absolutely everything about my Foundry models, w/o looking

I mean part of it's that, but also part of it is the fact that there are 48 different crews in the game.  Sure I know what all my stuff does, but my meta is limited to Arcanist, Bayou, TT, and NVB (which I play).  I sure as hell couldn't tell you what a Reva or Basse crew could do, and if I end up playing someone who brings that, now I have to spend time trying to figure out a rough idea what they do and how to work around it so I don't walk ass backwards into an 0-8.  I mean sure you could say that you shouldn't be playing if you don't know how to deal with x, y, or z, but at that point we throw any kind of "anti-gatekeeping" argument out the window.

11 minutes ago, dannydb said:

I think at end of day thought players and TOs should be trying to ensure 4 turn minimum are being played and people who are regularly not getting to that should be penalised. 

 

Slow play is cheating and as much as bringing iligal crews or miss quoting stats it needs to be punished as such. Just starting the game with plan not to get past turn 3 is just poor sportsmanship at end of day in my mind and should be dealt with as such

I mean yea but then you have TO's put in the position where they have to be tough to new players or use a bunch of discretion which can lead to issues with other players and such.  Similar issue with players leaving tournaments early for whatever reason.  TO's don't like to set hard rules that they might have to break depending on circumstances.

The TFW area meta is fairly thick with players that play a lot of aura/summoning crews.  Arcanist is big here and they usually have a TON of AP to burn in the early turns so I can see that skewing things.  But the main issue is that slow play is tolerated more than it should be due to TO's trying to not look bad publicly by cracking down on it.

Honestly something like a chess clock rule might be interesting.

54 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

It does look like they are working hard to make the models playable (and perhaps overshooting), but spamming suits is going to drain health pretty quickly (which makes the soulstone spamming pretty inefficient, not to mention takes an action which does nothing but gain a stone).

Red and Black seems like scary design for sure. Slow AND obey in a single AP? Depends on how good the crew is at draining hands, but combined with triggers on demand... Yeah, very scary.

And that is a lot of amazing abilities on the front of the card too.

He doesn't have to spam suits much since he has a better form of Intuition AND a move built into one action.  Easy setup, god forbid if he gets fast somehow.

21 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, it is just a bit weird. Are there many other models that have their in-game ability influenced by what faction they are?

Speaking from the NVB side there's a bunch of models that DON'T do what you think they would do based on the fluff and their faction.

Non-terrifying 9 foot tall monsters that are afraid of dead hookers, 2 ruthless models even though we're the faction that slaughtered literally everyone during the first breach, etc.

This guy is way too strong.  Like... way too strong.

First off, how do you even kill him?  He has 6's across the board, which means that aside from a handful of models, you can't outstat him when attacking.  His luck ability means focus is worse than useless, so you have no way to improve your attacks.  If you do hit him, he's also a henchman so he can stone to just reduce.  He has an ability where he can just attack and get whatever suit he likes... and has a suit that lets him get a soulstone... which isn't once per activation, so worst case scenario he can just gain back spent stones to stay alive.  I mean... what?!

Secondly, Red and Black is obey with zero restrictions.  Good luck anyone who has negative abilities like Ronin, or Killjoy upgrades, or god knows what else.  Not to mention the inevitable rules chaos when things like summoned models come into play.

I mean... seriously this is GW levels of power creep happening.  Wyrd do you even play your own game?

On 5/5/2020 at 10:24 AM, Jesy Blue said:

1.  NOT A$AMI! 

2.  Top UK player Jamie "Fucking" Varney took the half of a crew that exists from the Wastral keyword and won a tournament.... so, it's possible (half of the actual models are not out yet, so there's that).

3. Foundry has a lot of models across 3 factions, I'd rule them out too.

4. Honeypot has has only a handfull that you need... but then you have to explain why you're playing a gang of gambling, drug addicted, prostitutes to patents.

5. Qi and Gong is not a keyword for beginners.

6. Yan Lo might work.... however his 3rd Edition box is not be out yet, and good luck finding the 2nd edition one.

7. Misaki & The Last Blossom is viable.

You forgot Monk.

3 hours ago, Chris Rivers said:

I don't think Myranda can shapechange into a Sabretooth when in Neverborn.  It says a Minion from the declared faction on the Beast Shape action.

Can confirm.  Your list is undefeated cause you're playing it wrong lol...

23 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also worth noting the key question is: do Neverborn win a lot? And I think they're a dominant force in Russia (with dual masters being allowed), so clearly they're able to score points somehow.

I honestly couldn't tell you.  My meta has 3 NVB players and none of them have cracked top 10 recently in any tournaments that I can recall.  There was Kharnage out of Texas with LVO, but A) that was before the IR and Nekima nerfs, and 2) it's pretty well noted that he's an insanely good player so that might be an outlier.  People keep telling me we're good but I'm only seeing moderate success when people do something like Dreamer/Zoraida.  I haven't heard anything post GG1 though.

On 5/7/2020 at 1:50 PM, dzlier said:

3/4/6 damage, Range 2", Stat 6, with triggers to gain Focused or pulse out (up to 4" away) high Mv duels for Slow, and a bonus action to move 3" is lacking?

Part of his appeal is also how difficult he is to put down, healing 2 or 3 when he Activates, HtW, unmoveable, Demise (Eternal) and potentially giving Stunned when opponents Activate. I've yet to be disappointed with him.

I have yet to be disappointed in him either... although that's because I'm usually the one that wants him dead and he's fairly easy to do that with.  You forget the flipside of all those nice stats he has.  Df3 and Sz 4.  Any kind of range, min 3 damage, or ping damage, and he dies easily.  Also lets not forget he's not really fast.  Yes he has ambush, but unless he's concealed already, your pitching a card, which you also need for his eternal, so that's a 4 card hand you're working with before Zoraida bonus action.

9 hours ago, dzlier said:

But the thing I agree with the most is that Tots are useless now. They really ought to have Leap or at least Ambush or even Creep Along to regain their place as the Nephilim schemer. Bump their cost if you have to, but they are utterly useless and I would never hire one now, where I would hire 1 or even 2 in 2E. Maybe they were weakened to account for Grow being an always-available tactic now, but honestly as much as I love Grow in 3E, who's having much success growing Tots into anything? They die to nothing, they don't have Flight like the rest of the crew, and their Stat 4, 1/2/4 attack is worthless.

I've stopped trying to make sense of Wyrd's decisions on NVB, but I have had minor success growing Tots into youngs when facing down a model spam crew like somer or ulix.  Granted those were tots Hayreddin summoned but still, it can happen... but it's just an extra step to youngs.

11 hours ago, dzlier said:

Hard disagree on Wisps and Juju. The former are the primary way you get conditions on the Voodoo Doll target, and the latter is a great beater, especially when Obeying him for extra attacks.

Haven't gotten Grootslang on the table yet though so I can't say for that one.

Juju is a lacking beater compared to the other options in both factions.

8 hours ago, GremlinDaycare said:

I work with a lot of families at the school I work at. A lot of them do leagues and collecting and a few have started to ask about whats good competition wise and what is not worth buying competition wise.

Some of these parents only want to buy bare bones to do these leagues and competitions with their kids. SO HERE IS MY QUESTION, if I am advising a budget player that is only buying needs in a keyword, what is not worth the money? 

Waldegeists are not needed, changlings are not needed, as above bloodwretch and bultungin are useless (bultungin are edge case useful but waaaaay down the list of possible models).  Terror tots are not great even if going Nekima and unless your competitive can be proc'd (they're only worth the summoning part, don't actually hire them).  Wrath is bad so unless someone wants the crossroads box for the other stuff he's not needed.  Tuco's not needed at all.  Wisps are not worth the money nor is grootslang or juju.  Avoid Lucius cause he needs a hodgepodge of models as does zoraida.

On 4/26/2020 at 6:34 PM, Taxidermied said:

So far the majority of 3e core boxes have been 6 or 7 models (Hamelin has 10, but 4 of those are rats so it’s expected).  Trying to fit the new sculpts into a crew that size and add on boxes is a little wonky with content so I’d expect to see t containing:

New Nekima sculpt.

Blood Hunter totem.

3 new Terror Tot sculpts.

2 New Young Nephilim sculpts.

New Mature Nephilim sculpt.

Unlikely as they just released the matures in their own box.  If they were going to stack new sculpts in crew boxes for stuff that already had a box, they'd have Hayreddin in there anyway.

On 4/26/2020 at 6:37 PM, Taxidermied said:

With the Guild half of the starter set having gotten their own boxed set I’d expect the Neverborn half to get one as well.  Probably around the same time as Nekima gets a core box, or if the Explorers Society gets a Half Blood keyword crew...

So around 4th edition?